Abstract Wikipedia abstractwiki https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page MediaWiki 1.47.0-wmf.10 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Abstract Wikipedia Abstract Wikipedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 4 2 11699 9304 2026-07-08T23:14:15Z TigerZhang 4180 // Edit via Wikiplus 11699 wikitext text/x-wiki {{noexternallanglinks}} {{Main page/{{#invoke:Main_page|main|lang = {{USERLANGUAGE}}}}}}<!-- /language or /en --> <!-- -- To edit what appears on this page, -- please see [[Template:Main page]] -- https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Main_page --> lkv4jg0nwjhqmfawf2dfrbh8ei8jfx3 4 6 11702 11642 2026-07-09T06:49:02Z 99of9 614 /* HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments */ Reply 11702 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) 1fj5vucqfguhgts880b8as63bjw94p5 11705 11702 2026-07-09T08:09:03Z HenkvD 1447 /* HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments */ Reply 11705 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) 4esjdjsk2haj79studioonlqx8ndgmr 11706 11705 2026-07-09T08:40:07Z 99of9 614 /* HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments */ Reply 11706 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) dkjmok0a09rvji6ne5weqfv6945la4f 11711 11706 2026-07-09T09:43:27Z MediaWiki message delivery 61 /* Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone */ new section 11711 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> cdv52u1oy30bf5ldgsmqxooo6v2ceme 11724 11711 2026-07-09T10:29:54Z 99of9 614 /* HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments */ Reply 11724 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> 8pcg1dgesivh1187uxfatf62c6t0ze6 11726 11724 2026-07-09T11:31:36Z 99of9 614 /* HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments */ Reply 11726 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> h2w9f2bubdunauyz6t820tqkmekq1cy 10 457 11712 11592 2026-07-09T09:45:40Z Sannita (WMF) 48 update 11712 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;<translate><!--T:1--> Volunteer's Corners</translate> * <translate><!--T:2--> The next Volunteers' Corner will be at <tvar name="date-and-time"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi></tvar> on <tvar name="platform"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi></tvar> at <tvar name="link"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi></tvar>.</translate> * <translate><!--T:3--> The [[<tvar name="1">:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm</tvar>|most recent Volunteer's Corner]] is available on Commons.</translate> ; <translate><!--T:4--> Recent status updates about Wikifunctions</translate> <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <translate>[[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08</tvar>|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</translate> * <translate><!--T:24--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01</tvar>|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</translate> * <translate><!--T:23--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26</tvar>|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</translate> * <translate><!--T:22--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19</tvar>|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question</translate> * <translate><!--T:21--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12</tvar>|2026-06-12]]: Improved loading and display of Test results</translate> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small"><translate><!--T:10--> More news</translate></span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> nnr8w1t5hjolbwiko519flvg4vevlc1 11713 11712 2026-07-09T09:46:04Z Sannita (WMF) 48 Marked this version for translation 11713 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;<translate><!--T:1--> Volunteer's Corners</translate> * <translate><!--T:2--> The next Volunteers' Corner will be at <tvar name="date-and-time"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi></tvar> on <tvar name="platform"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi></tvar> at <tvar name="link"><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi></tvar>.</translate> * <translate><!--T:3--> The [[<tvar name="1">:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm</tvar>|most recent Volunteer's Corner]] is available on Commons.</translate> ; <translate><!--T:4--> Recent status updates about Wikifunctions</translate> <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <translate><!--T:25--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08</tvar>|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</translate> * <translate><!--T:24--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01</tvar>|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</translate> * <translate><!--T:23--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26</tvar>|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</translate> * <translate><!--T:22--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19</tvar>|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question</translate> * <translate><!--T:21--> [[<tvar name="1">:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12</tvar>|2026-06-12]]: Improved loading and display of Test results</translate> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small"><translate><!--T:10--> More news</translate></span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> khanjl0ok2dsx7e5z6mqtrvnvvrwize 2 1117 11703 11387 2026-07-09T07:40:51Z HenkvD 1447 11703 wikitext text/x-wiki {| border="1" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; border: #99B3FF solid 1px; background: #F1F8F1; border-collapse: collapse; color:black" | | colspan="10" style="text-align:center;" | <div class="plainlinks">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;'''Gebruiker:HenkvD''' op [[commons:Template talk:Sisterlinks|zusterprojecten]]</div> |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikipedia-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikipedia<br>[[:de:Benutzer:HenkvD|de:]] [[:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] [[:fr:Utilisateur:HenkvD|fr:]] '''[[:nl:User:HenkvD|nl:]]''' | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wiktionary-logo-en.png|17px]]<br>Wiktionary<br>[[:wikt:en:User:HenkvD|en:]]<br />[http://www.omegawiki.org/index.php/User:HenkvD ΩWiki] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikinews-logo.png|35px]]<br>Wikinews<br>[[wikinews:User:HenkvD|en:]] [[:n:nl:User:HenkvD|nl:]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:HenkvD nl: in incubator]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikiquote-logo.png|16px]]<br>Wikiquote<br>[[:q:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikibooks-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikibooks<br>[[:b:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikisource-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikisource<br>[[:s:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] '''[[:s:nl:Gebruiker:HenkvD|nl:]]''' <div class="plainlinks">[http://wikisource.org/wiki/User:HenkvD old]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikiversity-logo-en.svg|18px]]<br>Wikiversity<br>[[:de:v:User:HenkvD|de:]] [[:en:v:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikimedia-logo.png|18px]]<br>[[:meta:User:HenkvD|Meta]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:HenkvD Strategy]<br><div class="plainlinks">'''[http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:HenkvD nl:]'''</div></div> |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-icon.svg|16px]]<br>Wikivoyage<br>[[:en:voy:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[File:Wikidata-logo.svg|19px|Wikidata]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:HenkvD Wikidata]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Commons-logo.svg|14px]]<br>[[:Commons:User:HenkvD|Commons]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[File:Wikifunctions-logo.svg|14px]] [[File:Abstract-Wikipedia-wordmark.svg|42px]]<br>[[f:User:HenkvD|Wikifunctions]] <br>'''AbstractWiki''' |} My name is Henk, from [[Q55|the Netherlands]] ([[:nl:Gebruiker:HenkvD]]). I am interested in Abstract Wikipedia functionality and have general knowledge of the Dutch language (as native speaker). As most other Dutch persons I have good knowledge of English and some of German and a bit of French and Romance languages.<br> I have an IT background, and try to understand the programming in Wikifunctions.<br> I will try to analyse Wikifunction, Wikidata, lexemes and add Wikifunction tests if needed. In my opinion the initial goal is to have Abstract Wikipedia pages with simple lead section (like stubs), an infobox fully from Wikidata, one or more images and maybe some simple lists. The simple lead sentences should function for as many languages as possible. That will also need that many languages will have labels in Wikidata and lexemes with genders. That will be a difficult enough to achieve. In my opinion extensive prose will be very hard to achieve. <br clear=all> {{#babel:nl|en-3|de-2|fr-1}} ===Overview of NLG functions I work(ed) upon=== {| class="wikitable" ! ZID !! Example !! English !! Dutch || Other simple languages || Default |- | [[f:Z36625|Z36625]] third-person singular form of to be (simple) || || is || is || [[f:Z36627|f:]] en nl fy af bar bs eo frr is hsb mk nds os pap sr +fi +cs hr id zea || (is) |- | [[f:Z36622|Z36622]] indefinite article (simple) || || N/A || een || [[f:Z36624|f:]] nl af fy bar bs eo frr is hsb mk nds os pap sr +fi +cs hr id zea || (a) |- | [[f:Z36610|Z36610]] definite article (simple) || || the || N/A || [[f:Z36620|f:]] en af eo pap +fi +cs hr id || (the) |- | [[f:Z37311|Z37311]] String<br>and (indicating last entry of list) Simple || || and || en || 40 simple languages || (and) |- | [[f:Z32962|Z32962]] HTML [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] String<br>A is a B. || [[Q8739]] || Paris is a city. || Parijs is een stad || [[f:Z35523|f:]] af bar bs eo frr fy hsb is mk nds os pap sr +fi +zea || Y |- | [[f:Z32965|Z32965]] HTML [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] Monlingual<br>an A is a B. || [[Q2102]] || A frog is an amphibian. || een hond is een dier || [[f:Z36875|f:]] af bar bs eo frr fy hsb is (nds) mk nl os pap sr +fi +id zea || Y |- | [[f:Z36983|Z36983]] HTML [[f:Z26570|Z26570]] String<br>A is a B in C. || [[Q55]] || Netherlands is a country in Europe || Nederland is een land in Europa. || [[f:Z35618|f:]] af bar eo frr fy mk pap +hr zea || Y |- | [[f:Z36987|Z36987]] HTML [[f:Z32581|Z32581]] Monolingual<br>A is a B by C. || [[Q12418]] || Mona Lisa is a painting by Leonardo da Vinci. || Mona Lisa is een schilderij van Leonardo da Vinci. || [[f:Z36168|f:]] af eo fy is mk os pap +cs hr id zea || Y |- | [[f:Z36993|Z36993]] HTML [[f:Z32982|Z32982]] Monlingual<br>A is a B of C. || [[Q718]] || Chess is a game of strategy. || Schaken is een spel van strategie. || [[f:Z36528|f:]] af eo fy mk nl pap +cs hr id zea || Y |- | [[f:Z37011|Z37011]] HTML [[f:Z28016|Z28016]] Monolingual<br>A is the B of C. || [[Q90]] || Paris is the capital of France. || Parijs is de hoofdstad van Frankrijk<br>❗Lexemes needed for nouns || [[f:Z36339|f:]] af eo mk pap +hr zea || Y |- | [[f:Z34282|Z34282]] A is a B. (automatic based on Wikidata class) || [[Q13924]] || Adriatic Sea is a sea || Adriatische Zee is een zee. || WIP Wrapper || N |- | [[f:Z34637|Z34637]] A is part of the B. (automatic based on Wikidata class) || [[Q13924]] || Adriatic Sea is part of the Mediterranean Sea. || || || Y |- | [[f:Z27243|Z27243]] Monolingual<br>Superlative A is the B-est C in D || [[Q319]] || Jupiter is the largest planet in the Solar System. || [[f:Z37022|f:]] Jupiter is de grootste planeet van het zonnestelsel.<br>❗Lexemes needed for nouns || [[f:Z37033|:f:]] eo || Y ⤒ large { planet ∩ Solar System } = Jupiter. |- | [[f:Z29591|Z29591]] Monolingual<br>entity with adjective / class || [[Q177749]] || Jupiter is a big planet || || || Y A ∈ { B ∩ C. }. |- | [[f:Z37005|Z37005]] Monolingual<br>A has parts (automatic based on Wikidata) || [[Q211391]] || Weekend consists of Saturday and Sunday. || Weekeinde bestaat uit zaterdag en zondag. || [[f:Z37328|f:]] 25 languages || Y |- | [[f:Z37289|Z37289]] Monolingual<br>join list of monolingual texts without Oxford comma || || A, B and C || A, B en C || 40 languages || Y |- | || [[Q11750]] || list of sovereign states || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z35167|Z35167]] Infobox person || || OK || [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z35167?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z35167%22%2C%22Z35167K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z6821%22%2C%22Z6821K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q154946%22%7D%7D%2C%22Z35167K2%22%3A%22Z1157%22%7D OK] || OK (some labels needed, via P1629) || N/A |- | [[f:Z36494|Z36494]] infobox for settlement || ||❗timeout / Error in evaluation || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z36218|Z36218]] specific property of subject is value from WD || [[Q922]]<br> [[Q408]] (load time might be long) || The area of Australia is 7,692,024 km². || De oppervlakte van Australië is 7692024 km²<br>❗Lexemes not yet available for nouns of almost all used properties || [[f:Z36684|f:]] af eo mk pap +cs hr id || Y oppervlakte(Australië) = 7692024 km². |- | [[f:Z35921|Z35921]] NLG default text (string) || || OK || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z36911|Z36911]] NLG default text (monolingual text) || || OK || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z36909|Z36909]] NLG default text (HTML) || || OK || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z37454|Z37454]] monolingual text as HTML with lang & colour span || [[Q1370]] || || || || language daz <span lang="mul" style="color: #FF00FF;">⤒ Q138758272 { Q28575 ∩ Virginia } = Q341915</span> |} Steps to get Abstract Wikipedia started: * Basic functions on Wikifunctions * Wikidata labels * Link Wikidata Q-items to Lexemes / gender of lexemes on Wikidata * Link Wikidata P-items via Q-items to Lexemes / gender of lexemes on Wikidata Natural Language * [[f:Wikifunctions:NLG functions|Wikifunctions:NLG functions]] * [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions|Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] Dutch language * [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Dutch|Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Dutch]] Wikidata queries * [https://query.wikidata.org/#%23%20Gender%20of%20City%20per%20langague%0ASELECT%20%3Fl%20%3Flemma%20%3Fsense%20%3Fgender%20%3FgenderLabel%20%28LANG%28%3Flemma%29%20AS%20%3Flanguage%29%0AWHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fsense%20wdt%3AP5137%20wd%3AQ515.%20%20%20%23%20City%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20ontolex%3Asense%20%3Fsense.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20wikibase%3Alemma%20%3Flemma.%20%20%20%23%20FILTER%28LANG%28%3Flemma%29%3D%22de%22%29%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20wdt%3AP5185%20%3Fgender.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22%5BAUTO_LANGUAGE%5D%2Cen%22.%20%7D%0A%7D Gender of City per langague ] {{AbstractTestLemma}} {| class="wikitable" ! Function !! English !! Z1157 Dutch !! Z60 Local language |- | <nowiki>{{#function:</nowiki>[[f:Z26039|Z26039]]<nowiki>|Q64|Q515|Z1002}}</nowiki> | {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z1002}} || {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z1157}} || {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z60}} |} Testing different NLG Default texts : <span lang="mul">NLG Default text</span> : ≪NLG Default text≫ : ❗NLG Default text❗ : ≪❗NLG Default text❗≫ : ❗≪NLG Default text≫❗ : ❌NLG Default text❌ : ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌ : ≪❌NLG Default text❌≫ 9k3kdzywo2q7ijpxyxeouy6or791m8o 11704 11703 2026-07-09T08:04:12Z HenkvD 1447 /* Overview of NLG functions I work(ed) upon */ 11704 wikitext text/x-wiki {| border="1" style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 0.5em; border: #99B3FF solid 1px; background: #F1F8F1; border-collapse: collapse; color:black" | | colspan="10" style="text-align:center;" | <div class="plainlinks">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;'''Gebruiker:HenkvD''' op [[commons:Template talk:Sisterlinks|zusterprojecten]]</div> |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikipedia-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikipedia<br>[[:de:Benutzer:HenkvD|de:]] [[:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] [[:fr:Utilisateur:HenkvD|fr:]] '''[[:nl:User:HenkvD|nl:]]''' | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wiktionary-logo-en.png|17px]]<br>Wiktionary<br>[[:wikt:en:User:HenkvD|en:]]<br />[http://www.omegawiki.org/index.php/User:HenkvD ΩWiki] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikinews-logo.png|35px]]<br>Wikinews<br>[[wikinews:User:HenkvD|en:]] [[:n:nl:User:HenkvD|nl:]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:HenkvD nl: in incubator]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikiquote-logo.png|16px]]<br>Wikiquote<br>[[:q:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikibooks-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikibooks<br>[[:b:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikisource-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikisource<br>[[:s:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] '''[[:s:nl:Gebruiker:HenkvD|nl:]]''' <div class="plainlinks">[http://wikisource.org/wiki/User:HenkvD old]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikiversity-logo-en.svg|18px]]<br>Wikiversity<br>[[:de:v:User:HenkvD|de:]] [[:en:v:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikimedia-logo.png|18px]]<br>[[:meta:User:HenkvD|Meta]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:HenkvD Strategy]<br><div class="plainlinks">'''[http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:HenkvD nl:]'''</div></div> |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-icon.svg|16px]]<br>Wikivoyage<br>[[:en:voy:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[File:Wikidata-logo.svg|19px|Wikidata]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:HenkvD Wikidata]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Commons-logo.svg|14px]]<br>[[:Commons:User:HenkvD|Commons]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[File:Wikifunctions-logo.svg|14px]] [[File:Abstract-Wikipedia-wordmark.svg|42px]]<br>[[f:User:HenkvD|Wikifunctions]] <br>'''AbstractWiki''' |} My name is Henk, from [[Q55|the Netherlands]] ([[:nl:Gebruiker:HenkvD]]). I am interested in Abstract Wikipedia functionality and have general knowledge of the Dutch language (as native speaker). As most other Dutch persons I have good knowledge of English and some of German and a bit of French and Romance languages.<br> I have an IT background, and try to understand the programming in Wikifunctions.<br> I will try to analyse Wikifunction, Wikidata, lexemes and add Wikifunction tests if needed. In my opinion the initial goal is to have Abstract Wikipedia pages with simple lead section (like stubs), an infobox fully from Wikidata, one or more images and maybe some simple lists. The simple lead sentences should function for as many languages as possible. That will also need that many languages will have labels in Wikidata and lexemes with genders. That will be a difficult enough to achieve. In my opinion extensive prose will be very hard to achieve. <br clear=all> {{#babel:nl|en-3|de-2|fr-1}} ===Overview of NLG functions I work(ed) upon=== {| class="wikitable" ! ZID !! Example !! English !! Dutch || Other simple languages || Default |- | [[f:Z36625|Z36625]] third-person singular form of to be (simple) || || is || is || [[f:Z36627|f:]] en nl fy af bar bs eo frr is hsb mk nds os pap sr +fi +cs hr id zea || (is) |- | [[f:Z36622|Z36622]] indefinite article (simple) || || N/A || een || [[f:Z36624|f:]] nl af fy bar bs eo frr is hsb mk nds os pap sr +fi +cs hr id zea || (a) |- | [[f:Z36610|Z36610]] definite article (simple) || || the || N/A || [[f:Z36620|f:]] en af eo pap +fi +cs hr id || (the) |- | [[f:Z37311|Z37311]] String<br>and (indicating last entry of list) Simple || || and || en || 40 simple languages || (and) |- | [[f:Z32962|Z32962]] HTML [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] String<br>A is a B. || [[Q8739]] || Paris is a city. || Parijs is een stad || [[f:Z35523|f:]] af bar bs eo frr fy hsb is mk nds os pap sr +fi +zea || Y |- | [[f:Z32965|Z32965]] HTML [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] Monlingual<br>an A is a B. || [[Q2102]] || A frog is an amphibian. || een hond is een dier || [[f:Z36875|f:]] af bar bs eo frr fy hsb is (nds) mk nl os pap sr +fi +id zea || Y |- | [[f:Z36983|Z36983]] HTML [[f:Z26570|Z26570]] String<br>A is a B in C. || [[Q55]] || Netherlands is a country in Europe || Nederland is een land in Europa. || [[f:Z35618|f:]] af bar eo frr fy mk pap +hr zea || Y |- | [[f:Z36987|Z36987]] HTML [[f:Z32581|Z32581]] Monolingual<br>A is a B by C. || [[Q12418]] || Mona Lisa is a painting by Leonardo da Vinci. || Mona Lisa is een schilderij van Leonardo da Vinci. || [[f:Z36168|f:]] af eo fy is mk os pap +cs hr id zea || Y |- | [[f:Z36993|Z36993]] HTML [[f:Z32982|Z32982]] Monlingual<br>A is a B of C. || [[Q718]] || Chess is a game of strategy. || Schaken is een spel van strategie. || [[f:Z36528|f:]] af eo fy mk nl pap +cs hr id zea || Y |- | [[f:Z37011|Z37011]] HTML [[f:Z28016|Z28016]] Monolingual<br>A is the B of C. || [[Q90]] || Paris is the capital of France. || Parijs is de hoofdstad van Frankrijk<br>❗Lexemes needed for nouns || [[f:Z36339|f:]] af eo mk pap +hr zea || Y |- | [[f:Z34282|Z34282]] A is a B. (automatic based on Wikidata class) || [[Q13924]] || Adriatic Sea is a sea || Adriatische Zee is een zee. || WIP Wrapper || N |- | [[f:Z34637|Z34637]] A is part of the B. (automatic based on Wikidata class) || [[Q13924]] || Adriatic Sea is part of the Mediterranean Sea. || || || Y |- | [[f:Z27243|Z27243]] Monolingual<br>Superlative A is the B-est C in D || [[Q319]] || Jupiter is the largest planet in the Solar System. || [[f:Z37022|f:]] Jupiter is de grootste planeet van het zonnestelsel.<br>❗Lexemes needed for nouns || [[f:Z37033|:f:]] eo || Y ⤒ large { planet ∩ Solar System } = Jupiter. |- | [[f:Z29591|Z29591]] Monolingual<br>entity with adjective / class || [[Q177749]] || Jupiter is a big planet || || || Y A ∈ { B ∩ C. }. |- | [[f:Z37005|Z37005]] Monolingual<br>A has parts (automatic based on Wikidata) || [[Q211391]] || Weekend consists of Saturday and Sunday. || Weekeinde bestaat uit zaterdag en zondag. || [[f:Z37328|f:]] 25 languages || Y |- | [[f:Z37289|Z37289]] Monolingual<br>join list of monolingual texts without Oxford comma || || A, B and C || A, B en C || 40 languages || Y |- | || [[Q11750]] || list of sovereign states || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z35167|Z35167]] Infobox person || || OK || [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z35167?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z35167%22%2C%22Z35167K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z6821%22%2C%22Z6821K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q154946%22%7D%7D%2C%22Z35167K2%22%3A%22Z1157%22%7D OK] || OK (some labels needed, via P1629) || N/A |- | [[f:Z36494|Z36494]] infobox for settlement || ||❗timeout / Error in evaluation || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z36218|Z36218]] specific property of subject is value from WD || [[Q922]]<br> [[Q408]] (load time might be long) || The area of Australia is 7,692,024 km². || De oppervlakte van Australië is 7692024 km²<br>❗Lexemes not yet available for nouns of almost all used properties || [[f:Z36684|f:]] af eo mk pap +cs hr id || Y oppervlakte(Australië) = 7692024 km². |- | [[f:Z35921|Z35921]] NLG default text (string) || || OK || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z36911|Z36911]] NLG default text (monolingual text) || || OK || || || language "mul" |- | [[f:Z36909|Z36909]] NLG default text (HTML) || || OK || || || span lang="mul" style="color: #FF00FF;" |- | [[f:Z37454|Z37454]] monolingual text as HTML with lang & colour span || [[Q1370]] || || || || language daz <span lang="mul" style="color: #FF00FF;">⤒ Q138758272 { Q28575 ∩ Virginia } = Q341915</span> |} Steps to get Abstract Wikipedia started: * Basic functions on Wikifunctions * Wikidata labels * Link Wikidata Q-items to Lexemes / gender of lexemes on Wikidata * Link Wikidata P-items via Q-items to Lexemes / gender of lexemes on Wikidata Natural Language * [[f:Wikifunctions:NLG functions|Wikifunctions:NLG functions]] * [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions|Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] Dutch language * [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Dutch|Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Dutch]] Wikidata queries * [https://query.wikidata.org/#%23%20Gender%20of%20City%20per%20langague%0ASELECT%20%3Fl%20%3Flemma%20%3Fsense%20%3Fgender%20%3FgenderLabel%20%28LANG%28%3Flemma%29%20AS%20%3Flanguage%29%0AWHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fsense%20wdt%3AP5137%20wd%3AQ515.%20%20%20%23%20City%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20ontolex%3Asense%20%3Fsense.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20wikibase%3Alemma%20%3Flemma.%20%20%20%23%20FILTER%28LANG%28%3Flemma%29%3D%22de%22%29%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20wdt%3AP5185%20%3Fgender.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22%5BAUTO_LANGUAGE%5D%2Cen%22.%20%7D%0A%7D Gender of City per langague ] {{AbstractTestLemma}} {| class="wikitable" ! Function !! English !! Z1157 Dutch !! Z60 Local language |- | <nowiki>{{#function:</nowiki>[[f:Z26039|Z26039]]<nowiki>|Q64|Q515|Z1002}}</nowiki> | {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z1002}} || {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z1157}} || {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z60}} |} Testing different NLG Default texts : <span lang="mul">NLG Default text</span> : ≪NLG Default text≫ : ❗NLG Default text❗ : ≪❗NLG Default text❗≫ : ❗≪NLG Default text≫❗ : ❌NLG Default text❌ : ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌ : ≪❌NLG Default text❌≫ 35kaogfs9xwl0bdt037pbqlxk0uioek 0 1356 11707 3717 2026-07-09T08:41:37Z 99of9 614 11707 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q7343", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q36074" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q38048753" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z37065", "Z37065K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q7343" }, "Z37065K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q12935276" }, "Z37065K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z37065K4": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q16502" }, "Z37065K5": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } ccnuk0fpjc0ge4ctk8hbxd3tuov8gmy 11708 11707 2026-07-09T08:42:14Z 99of9 614 11708 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q7343", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q36074" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672" }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q38048753" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z37065", "Z37065K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q7343" }, "Z37065K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q12935276" }, "Z37065K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z37065K4": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q16502" }, "Z37065K5": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } d1e9ct86ufqqzhlvxh01l8g8tlrqxny 11709 11708 2026-07-09T08:43:06Z 99of9 614 somehow it allowed me to click in a function without its argument! 11709 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q7343", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q36074" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q38048753" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z37065", "Z37065K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q7343" }, "Z37065K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q12935276" }, "Z37065K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z37065K4": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q16502" }, "Z37065K5": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } a87onw0ayimnb00og7mdxno67r924g2 11710 11709 2026-07-09T08:56:25Z 99of9 614 11710 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q7343", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36983", "Z36983K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z36983K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z36983K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q36074" }, "Z36983K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q38048753" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z37065", "Z37065K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q7343" }, "Z37065K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q12935276" }, "Z37065K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z37065K4": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q16502" }, "Z37065K5": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } 0okmhywk8a94nxcegjkjjg42tkucjb5 11725 11710 2026-07-09T11:28:47Z 99of9 614 11725 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q7343", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36983", "Z36983K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z36983K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z36983K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q36074" }, "Z36983K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32962", "Z32962K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z32962K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q38048753" }, "Z32962K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z37065", "Z37065K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q7343" }, "Z37065K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q12935276" }, "Z37065K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q11292" }, "Z37065K4": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q16502" }, "Z37065K5": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } pka50jlnjur2c9v4acey4bp459qvlun 10 1883 11718 11596 2026-07-09T09:46:06Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 11718 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;Volunteer's Corners * The next Volunteers' Corner will be at <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi> on <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> at <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>. * The [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|most recent Volunteer's Corner]] is available on Commons. ; Recent status updates about Wikifunctions <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]: Improved loading and display of Test results </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">More news</span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> a9k6p7iwxmiplilfqy1ekdx8pshpgv5 10 1989 11717 11594 2026-07-09T09:46:05Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 11717 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;স্বেচ্ছাসেবক সভা * পরবর্তী স্বেচ্ছাসেবক সভা <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi>-এ <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi>-এ <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>-এ হবে। * [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|সর্বশেষ স্বেচ্ছাসেবক সভা]] কমন্সে পাওয়া যাবে। ; উইকিফাংশন্স সম্পর্কে সাম্প্রতিক হালনাগাদ <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]: Improved loading and display of Test results</span> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">আরও সংবাদ</span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> i7qx20ke0smrt3da3j8850nxw3w666e 10 2061 11716 11595 2026-07-09T09:46:05Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 11716 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;Freiwilligentreffen * Das nächste Freiwilligentreffen findet um <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi> auf <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> unter <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi> statt. * Das [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|letzte Freiwilligentreffen]] ist auf Commons verfügbar. ; Aktuelle Neuigkeiten zum Status von Wikifunctions <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</span> * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: Der/die/das oder nicht, (das?) ist hier die Frage * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]: Verbessertes Laden und Anzeigen von Testergebnissen </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">Weitere Neuigkeiten</span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> 98sq79q17qihsok1cwa89b1iptbbmj5 10 2080 11715 11593 2026-07-09T09:46:05Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 11715 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;ركن المتطوعين * سيكون ركن المتطوعين التالي في <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi> على <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> في <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>. * [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|أحدث ركن المتطوعين]] متاح على كومنز. ; تحديثات الحالة الأخيرة حول ويكي الدوال <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</span> * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: الـ أم لا، هذا هو السؤال (أو السؤال؟) * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]: تحسين تحميل وعرض نتائج الاختبار </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">المزيد من الأخبار</span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> o5no8pf67i60y58951c3unxocmeizw7 10 2278 11723 11601 2026-07-09T09:46:07Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 11723 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;-{A|zh-hans:志愿者;zh-hant:志工;}-角落 * 下一期志愿者角将于<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi>在 <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> 的<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>举行。 * [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|最近的志愿者角]]已发布在维基共享资源上。 ; 维基函数最新动态 <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question</span> * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]：优化了测试结果的加载与显示 </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">更多新闻</span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> bh82znod7gvn8p4zml3wfs3km1prjao 10 2418 11721 11600 2026-07-09T09:46:07Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 11721 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;Volontärshörnan * Nästa volontärshörna kommer hållas på <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi>, på <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>. * Den [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|förra volontärshörnan]] finns att se på Commons. ; Senaste nytt om Wikifunctions <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]: Improved loading and display of Test results</span> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">Fler nyheter</span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> gnxg0ln23a612librx84g625wy5fub6 10 2805 11719 11597 2026-07-09T09:46:06Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 11719 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;<span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Volunteer's Corners</span> * A következő Önkéntes Sarok <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi>-kor lesz <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> oldalon a <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi> linken. * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">The [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|most recent Volunteer's Corner]] is available on Commons.</span> ; <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Recent status updates about Wikifunctions</span> <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]: Improved loading and display of Test results</span> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small"><span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">More news</span></span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> bfimy6ipa5bbm1y5q69e5c470msdz53 0 2879 11700 11651 2026-07-09T01:47:15Z 99of9 614 some extra images 11700 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q3130", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36038", "Z36038K1": { "Z1K1": "Z310", "Z310K1": "M5662953" }, "Z36038K2": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36270", "Z36270K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z36270K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z37011", "Z37011K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z37011K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", 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lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">The next Volunteers' Corner will be at <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi> on <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi> at <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>.</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">The [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|most recent Volunteer's Corner]] is available on Commons.</span> ; sona sin pi lipu Wikiwilo <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: Integration on test wiki and annual plan</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]: Improved loading and display of Test results</span> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small"><span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">More news</span></span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> jaa84aa4rk39t2d4vjrx8pa6bxzd6vw 2 4204 11678 11393 2026-07-08T14:02:40Z Leaf.Sheap 5406 11678 wikitext text/x-wiki {{DISPLAYTITLE:USER:{{PAGENAME}}}} <div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable"><i> For more information on this user, including userboxens, see [[W:EN:USER:Leaf.Sheap]] </i></div>[[File:Costasiella sp (19797152176).jpg|thumb|left|alt=Leaf Sheep|[[w:Costasiella_kuroshimae|Leaf.Sheap]]]] {{#babel:en-N|tok-3}} ==A Leaf Sheep!== <div class=center>↿↾<br>⇖⇗<br>⇖⇖⇗⇗<br>⇖⇖⇑⇑⇗⇗<br>⇖⇖⇑⇑⇑⇑⇗⇗<br>⇖ /.°°.\ ⇗</div> 0btd5eo6z8ajhveu07o5o9tmu3o1h4m 10 4309 11720 11598 2026-07-09T09:46:06Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 11720 wikitext text/x-wiki <noinclude><languages /></noinclude> <div style="margin: auto; vertical-align:top"> <div class="mainpage_boxcontents_small"> ;지원자 코너 * 다음 지원자 코너는 <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1788802200 17:30 UTC on 2026-09-07]</bdi>에 <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">Google Meet</bdi>(<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">[https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw]</bdi>)에서 진행됩니다. * [[:c:File:Abstract Wikipedia Volunteer Corner 2026-07.webm|가장 최근의 지원자 코너 내용]]은 공용에서 확인하실 수 있습니다. ; 위키함수의 현황 업데이트 <!--Keep this to the most recent 5 entries--> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone</span> * [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|2026-07-01]]: 테스트 위키 통합 및 연간 계획 * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|2026-06-26]]: Working on Functions, together</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|2026-06-19]]: The or not the, this is (the?) question</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|2026-06-12]]: Improved loading and display of Test results</span> </div> <span class="plainlinks">[[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|<span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-constructive mw-ui-small">더 많은 소식</span>]]</span> </div><noinclude>[[Category:templates]]</noinclude> 5745v9sj8ufy9pyrb00or1dtg95krik 5 4316 11679 11652 2026-07-08T14:24:10Z YoshiRulz 640 /* re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" */ new section 11679 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) 5ubwv9iduxqie7ri7awekayk9mjq0ah 11680 11679 2026-07-08T14:59:01Z YoshiRulz 640 /* re: "Generated article quality" */ new section 11680 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) a3j7qv8kfr0h9v5vkx0xf5jqt412xiy 11681 11680 2026-07-08T15:23:42Z YoshiRulz 640 /* English centric? */ Reply 11681 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) oycnokl3oyy2kv84qaeoko7s9jz4r40 11682 11681 2026-07-08T15:36:28Z YoshiRulz 640 /* re: "Content governance and control" */ new section 11682 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Content governance and control" == Link to AW policy discussions/drafts. Maybe reassure the critics by mentioning that <q><ins>As the system gets more expressive and articles improve in quality, poor-quality articles will become easier to spot. The community can also make new editing and moderation tools.</ins></q> [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:36, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ddsf5m8hbfiab2h9dz43ut517uozfgy 11683 11682 2026-07-08T15:47:56Z YoshiRulz 640 /* Developers and budget */ Reply 11683 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :That's true, but at some level, developer time+money (or lack thereof) is to blame for the endless timeouts and flakiness. And we who write all the functions, surely we'd be more productive if the servers had limitless computing power? I wonder how different the project would be if it had the same devs and management but was bankrolled by, say, {{Q|116758847}} or {{Q|380}}. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:47, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Content governance and control" == Link to AW policy discussions/drafts. Maybe reassure the critics by mentioning that <q><ins>As the system gets more expressive and articles improve in quality, poor-quality articles will become easier to spot. The community can also make new editing and moderation tools.</ins></q> [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:36, 8 July 2026 (UTC) mcd9x50k2jff8n5d9156hirtiqe1ck3 11684 11683 2026-07-08T16:37:19Z YoshiRulz 640 /* re: "Technical performance and stability" and "Transparent documentation and progress reporting" */ new section 11684 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :That's true, but at some level, developer time+money (or lack thereof) is to blame for the endless timeouts and flakiness. And we who write all the functions, surely we'd be more productive if the servers had limitless computing power? I wonder how different the project would be if it had the same devs and management but was bankrolled by, say, {{Q|116758847}} or {{Q|380}}. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:47, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Content governance and control" == Link to AW policy discussions/drafts. Maybe reassure the critics by mentioning that <q><ins>As the system gets more expressive and articles improve in quality, poor-quality articles will become easier to spot. The community can also make new editing and moderation tools.</ins></q> [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:36, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Technical performance and stability" and "Transparent documentation and progress reporting" == Keeping [[f:WF:Status]] updated would be a good start (last meaningful edit: 2025-11). I've mentioned it once or twice and was ignored... There's also [[f:WF:Feature petitions]] which we could promote more (last edit: 2026-02), then the dev team could rely on that and [[f:WF:BUG]] (last edit: 2026-07) as a summary instead of trying to keep up with disparate discussions. And it really shouldn't fall to me to write something like [[f:Help:Z89]]. <br>Speaking for myself, I've filed a few Phabricator tickets, but I've also just come up with workarounds for many bugs and annoyances, to the point where I've internalised them and found it jarring when one "broke" last month. This feels out-of-line, but I have to ask: do you actually use the interface you've created? And perhaps more importantly, have you ever watched someone else use it? My programming workflow would probably seem insane were you to analyse it. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 16:37, 8 July 2026 (UTC) 27rpz7ofc78yxa3ipsnmodj27622x34 11685 11684 2026-07-08T16:57:08Z YoshiRulz 640 /* Thoughts */ Reply 11685 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :That's true, but at some level, developer time+money (or lack thereof) is to blame for the endless timeouts and flakiness. And we who write all the functions, surely we'd be more productive if the servers had limitless computing power? I wonder how different the project would be if it had the same devs and management but was bankrolled by, say, {{Q|116758847}} or {{Q|380}}. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:47, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :Seconded on the corpo-speak. If I wanted equivocation I'd ask an LLM.<br>I elaborated on this in [[#c-YoshiRulz-20260708163700-re:_"Technical_performance_and_stability"_and_"Transparent_documentation_and_pro|my other comment]], but regarding documentation and roadmaps, you can't have too much (assuming what you write is actually content and not filler).<br>Regarding new users, on top of more and better documentation, the main page could do with a makeover. I assume the AW team has put some thought into what kinds of editor they want and where to direct them, but that hasn't translated (no pun intended) into changes to the main page, [[f:Help:Contents]], or [[f:Help:Multilingual]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 16:57, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Content governance and control" == Link to AW policy discussions/drafts. Maybe reassure the critics by mentioning that <q><ins>As the system gets more expressive and articles improve in quality, poor-quality articles will become easier to spot. The community can also make new editing and moderation tools.</ins></q> [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:36, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Technical performance and stability" and "Transparent documentation and progress reporting" == Keeping [[f:WF:Status]] updated would be a good start (last meaningful edit: 2025-11). I've mentioned it once or twice and was ignored... There's also [[f:WF:Feature petitions]] which we could promote more (last edit: 2026-02), then the dev team could rely on that and [[f:WF:BUG]] (last edit: 2026-07) as a summary instead of trying to keep up with disparate discussions. And it really shouldn't fall to me to write something like [[f:Help:Z89]]. <br>Speaking for myself, I've filed a few Phabricator tickets, but I've also just come up with workarounds for many bugs and annoyances, to the point where I've internalised them and found it jarring when one "broke" last month. This feels out-of-line, but I have to ask: do you actually use the interface you've created? And perhaps more importantly, have you ever watched someone else use it? My programming workflow would probably seem insane were you to analyse it. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 16:37, 8 July 2026 (UTC) briq2bbilxap3weoxt3som9gc1eniud 11686 11685 2026-07-08T17:15:45Z YoshiRulz 640 /* re: "Technical performance and stability" and "Transparent documentation and progress reporting" */ 11686 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :That's true, but at some level, developer time+money (or lack thereof) is to blame for the endless timeouts and flakiness. And we who write all the functions, surely we'd be more productive if the servers had limitless computing power? I wonder how different the project would be if it had the same devs and management but was bankrolled by, say, {{Q|116758847}} or {{Q|380}}. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:47, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :Seconded on the corpo-speak. If I wanted equivocation I'd ask an LLM.<br>I elaborated on this in [[#c-YoshiRulz-20260708163700-re:_"Technical_performance_and_stability"_and_"Transparent_documentation_and_pro|my other comment]], but regarding documentation and roadmaps, you can't have too much (assuming what you write is actually content and not filler).<br>Regarding new users, on top of more and better documentation, the main page could do with a makeover. I assume the AW team has put some thought into what kinds of editor they want and where to direct them, but that hasn't translated (no pun intended) into changes to the main page, [[f:Help:Contents]], or [[f:Help:Multilingual]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 16:57, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Content governance and control" == Link to AW policy discussions/drafts. Maybe reassure the critics by mentioning that <q><ins>As the system gets more expressive and articles improve in quality, poor-quality articles will become easier to spot. The community can also make new editing and moderation tools.</ins></q> [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:36, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Technical performance and stability" and "Transparent documentation and progress reporting" == Keeping [[f:WF:Status]] updated would be a good start (last meaningful edit: 2025-11). I've mentioned it once or twice and was ignored... There's also [[f:WF:Feature petitions]] which we could promote more (last edit: 2026-02), then the dev team could rely on that and [[f:WF:BUG]] (last edit: 2026-07) as a summary instead of trying to keep up with disparate discussions. And it really shouldn't fall to me to write something like [[f:Help:Z89]]. <br>Speaking for myself, I've filed a few Phabricator tickets, but I've also just come up with workarounds for many bugs and annoyances, to the point where I've internalised them and found it jarring when one "broke" last month. This feels out-of-line, but I have to ask: do you actually use the interface you've created? And perhaps more importantly, have you ever watched someone else use it? My programming workflow would probably seem insane were you to analyse it. <br>edit: I didn't intend to join the critics when I started writing, but here we are... <s>WF SUX</s> The current "progress" of WF/AW is indeed exaggerated, and even if you look at the average function instead of cherry-picking the best, it's only impressive because it's built on MediaWiki. FP languages, language interop, FOSS libraries, and machine translation (though not NLG) were already widespread. I agree with the pushback against calling it "beta software", because the problems are in the fundamentals: for WF, type checking, debugging, recursion; for AW, data structures. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 17:15, 8 July 2026 (UTC) 2og736ipgq0m2ujcnpb11va7plyedea 11698 11686 2026-07-08T23:02:40Z EatingCarBatteries 1378 /* Thoughts */ Reply 11698 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :That's true, but at some level, developer time+money (or lack thereof) is to blame for the endless timeouts and flakiness. And we who write all the functions, surely we'd be more productive if the servers had limitless computing power? I wonder how different the project would be if it had the same devs and management but was bankrolled by, say, {{Q|116758847}} or {{Q|380}}. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:47, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :Seconded on the corpo-speak. If I wanted equivocation I'd ask an LLM.<br>I elaborated on this in [[#c-YoshiRulz-20260708163700-re:_"Technical_performance_and_stability"_and_"Transparent_documentation_and_pro|my other comment]], but regarding documentation and roadmaps, you can't have too much (assuming what you write is actually content and not filler).<br>Regarding new users, on top of more and better documentation, the main page could do with a makeover. I assume the AW team has put some thought into what kinds of editor they want and where to direct them, but that hasn't translated (no pun intended) into changes to the main page, [[f:Help:Contents]], or [[f:Help:Multilingual]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 16:57, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :I feel the need to reiterate again that ''the Wiki model is based on transparency and community feedback''. This is the reason why across MediaWiki projects, virtually every single talk page across namespaces, articles, drafts, etc, have their history open. Decisions are made by community consensus, and importantly, they may be decisions that the WMF disagrees with. In the worst case scenario for this project, only a couple extremely small/niche languages will take up on this while all of the major languages ban it from their wikis. :<br /> :If you don't have radical transparency for future plans, you're just asking volunteers to either quit or get burnt out. Why work towards a project when it's future is uncertain? I started to contribute functions in late March ([[f:Z32839]]), but I quickly got confused and decided to leave until the future is more sorted out. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:02, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Content governance and control" == Link to AW policy discussions/drafts. Maybe reassure the critics by mentioning that <q><ins>As the system gets more expressive and articles improve in quality, poor-quality articles will become easier to spot. The community can also make new editing and moderation tools.</ins></q> [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:36, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Technical performance and stability" and "Transparent documentation and progress reporting" == Keeping [[f:WF:Status]] updated would be a good start (last meaningful edit: 2025-11). I've mentioned it once or twice and was ignored... There's also [[f:WF:Feature petitions]] which we could promote more (last edit: 2026-02), then the dev team could rely on that and [[f:WF:BUG]] (last edit: 2026-07) as a summary instead of trying to keep up with disparate discussions. And it really shouldn't fall to me to write something like [[f:Help:Z89]]. <br>Speaking for myself, I've filed a few Phabricator tickets, but I've also just come up with workarounds for many bugs and annoyances, to the point where I've internalised them and found it jarring when one "broke" last month. This feels out-of-line, but I have to ask: do you actually use the interface you've created? And perhaps more importantly, have you ever watched someone else use it? My programming workflow would probably seem insane were you to analyse it. <br>edit: I didn't intend to join the critics when I started writing, but here we are... <s>WF SUX</s> The current "progress" of WF/AW is indeed exaggerated, and even if you look at the average function instead of cherry-picking the best, it's only impressive because it's built on MediaWiki. FP languages, language interop, FOSS libraries, and machine translation (though not NLG) were already widespread. I agree with the pushback against calling it "beta software", because the problems are in the fundamentals: for WF, type checking, debugging, recursion; for AW, data structures. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 17:15, 8 July 2026 (UTC) 4bgjkm6hgh3v7e1gxo4emcg9529pgyj 4 4322 11688 11638 2026-07-08T19:06:37Z HackerPunki 5745 11688 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages /> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia{{#translation:}}]] <span id="What_is_Abstract_Wikipedia?"></span> ==Lo qué es la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Güiquipedia Astrata es un nuevu proyeutu gelmanu dela Güiquipedia. La vissión de Güiquipedia es crial un mundu en que tolas pressonas tean acessu ala totaliá dela conocencia. La Güiquipedia astrata ayuadrá ala comuniá de voluntarius que contribuyin en Güiquipedia i los proyeutus aparentis a fechal las brechas de conocencia de holma efetiva. La Güiquipedia tien endilguis a tentu de más de 20 millonis de temas, en más de 300 diomas. Peru denguna destas luengas, por segu mesmas, premitin l'acessu a tolas conocencias destus 20 millonis de temas: l'ingrés tien muás de sieti millonis d'endilguis, el croata 230.000, i'l Suajili 100.000. A menus que puea vusté palral estas luengas, essas conocencias non sonin de acessu faci. I por munchu que las herramientas de trauzión aigan amejoráu conos rezientis ahilis en EA, estovia non án allegau al puntu de prouzil trauzionis fiabris en múltipris paris de luengas. La Güiquipedia Astrata premiti hazel essu sin gastal EA denguna. Ca passu nel prosseçu premaneci baxu baraji umanu, i es acessibri i aditabri palos voluntarius. Non ain acipurrius nin marrus sin espricaera denguna o descorregiblis: Sin angu vai mal puei apetusca-llu nun solu passu, i ai traslús total a tentu de cómu huorin criaus los testus. Non es sólu un moelu e probaliá que descogi la capital de Kenia al azal. Es una conocencia criá i almenistrá por umanus. <span id="How_does_Abstract_Wikipedia_work?"></span> ==Lo cómu enhunciona la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Los endilguis ena Güiquipedia Astrata sonin almacenás nuna notación endependienti delas luengas umanas. La entrifás de Güiquipedia Astarta premiti alos contribuyentis voluntarius a crial i mantenel aquesta notación endependienti. Nun segunderu passu, aquesta notación es muá nun testu en lenguagi umanu. Los passus precissus pa hazel qu'estu aconteça tamién sonin criaus i manteníus pola comuniá de voluntarius, en Güiquihuncionis. Estus passus puein gastal daus de [[D:|Güiquidata]], precurandu númberus de puebración, fechas de nacencia, o cassus gramaticalis inrregularis, qu'an síu añidíus i manteníus en Güiquidata polas comuniáis de voluntarius. Vea-si [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:How to create an article|Ayúa:Lo cómu crial un artícalu]] pa una guía passu a passu. Pongamos un exempru: «[[Q1033|Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.]]», que senifica «Nigeria es el país de mayol puebración n'África» en ingrés. En Güiquipedia Astrata, estu se podería almacenal dela siguienti holma: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], Z27243K5)}} O sin gastamus etiquetas ingressas pa estus dentificaoris: {{block indent|1=superlative(Nigeria, populous, country, Africa, language)}} Estu es una hunción llamá en Güiquihuncionis. Singún la luenga, otra hunción puei sel llamá. Pal ingrés, tenemus la siguienti llamá a hunción: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1002|Z1002]])}} I los resultaus nel testu ingrés {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa."''}} Sin uviéramus descogíu l'alemnán, algotra hunción uvira síu llamá: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1430|Z1430]])}} <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">And that in turn would result in the following German text:</span> {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria ist das bevölkerungsreichste Land Afrikas."''}} <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> An example with more languages can be found here.<!-- where?? --> </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> Abstract Wikipedia brings together numerous communities from the Wikimedia Movement and allows them to work together. Basic lexical data and structured data about many topics from Wikidata, functions that capture the necessary computations from Wikifunctions, and images and maps from Wikimedia Commons are all tied together in Abstract Wikipedia and made available for the more than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> The goal of Abstract Wikipedia is to make more knowledge available to more people in more languages, and to allow volunteer editors to be more effective and work across languages, no matter what language they speak. Improvements to the knowledge will automatically propagate to the Wikipedias, errors will be spotted faster and fixed more effectively, and collaborations across languages become possible. We are tearing down the language barriers which are keeping knowledge apart. </div> jhet669zmfh4fg878dd413sp96za3l0 11690 11688 2026-07-08T19:08:27Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "I esta criadría el siguienti testu n'alemán:" 11690 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages /> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia{{#translation:}}]] <span id="What_is_Abstract_Wikipedia?"></span> ==Lo qué es la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Güiquipedia Astrata es un nuevu proyeutu gelmanu dela Güiquipedia. La vissión de Güiquipedia es crial un mundu en que tolas pressonas tean acessu ala totaliá dela conocencia. La Güiquipedia astrata ayuadrá ala comuniá de voluntarius que contribuyin en Güiquipedia i los proyeutus aparentis a fechal las brechas de conocencia de holma efetiva. La Güiquipedia tien endilguis a tentu de más de 20 millonis de temas, en más de 300 diomas. Peru denguna destas luengas, por segu mesmas, premitin l'acessu a tolas conocencias destus 20 millonis de temas: l'ingrés tien muás de sieti millonis d'endilguis, el croata 230.000, i'l Suajili 100.000. A menus que puea vusté palral estas luengas, essas conocencias non sonin de acessu faci. I por munchu que las herramientas de trauzión aigan amejoráu conos rezientis ahilis en EA, estovia non án allegau al puntu de prouzil trauzionis fiabris en múltipris paris de luengas. La Güiquipedia Astrata premiti hazel essu sin gastal EA denguna. Ca passu nel prosseçu premaneci baxu baraji umanu, i es acessibri i aditabri palos voluntarius. Non ain acipurrius nin marrus sin espricaera denguna o descorregiblis: Sin angu vai mal puei apetusca-llu nun solu passu, i ai traslús total a tentu de cómu huorin criaus los testus. Non es sólu un moelu e probaliá que descogi la capital de Kenia al azal. Es una conocencia criá i almenistrá por umanus. <span id="How_does_Abstract_Wikipedia_work?"></span> ==Lo cómu enhunciona la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Los endilguis ena Güiquipedia Astrata sonin almacenás nuna notación endependienti delas luengas umanas. La entrifás de Güiquipedia Astarta premiti alos contribuyentis voluntarius a crial i mantenel aquesta notación endependienti. Nun segunderu passu, aquesta notación es muá nun testu en lenguagi umanu. Los passus precissus pa hazel qu'estu aconteça tamién sonin criaus i manteníus pola comuniá de voluntarius, en Güiquihuncionis. Estus passus puein gastal daus de [[D:|Güiquidata]], precurandu númberus de puebración, fechas de nacencia, o cassus gramaticalis inrregularis, qu'an síu añidíus i manteníus en Güiquidata polas comuniáis de voluntarius. Vea-si [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:How to create an article|Ayúa:Lo cómu crial un artícalu]] pa una guía passu a passu. Pongamos un exempru: «[[Q1033|Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.]]», que senifica «Nigeria es el país de mayol puebración n'África» en ingrés. En Güiquipedia Astrata, estu se podería almacenal dela siguienti holma: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], Z27243K5)}} O sin gastamus etiquetas ingressas pa estus dentificaoris: {{block indent|1=superlative(Nigeria, populous, country, Africa, language)}} Estu es una hunción llamá en Güiquihuncionis. Singún la luenga, otra hunción puei sel llamá. Pal ingrés, tenemus la siguienti llamá a hunción: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1002|Z1002]])}} I los resultaus nel testu ingrés {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa."''}} Sin uviéramus descogíu l'alemnán, algotra hunción uvira síu llamá: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1430|Z1430]])}} I esta criadría el siguienti testu n'alemán: {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria ist das bevölkerungsreichste Land Afrikas."''}} <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> An example with more languages can be found here.<!-- where?? --> </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> Abstract Wikipedia brings together numerous communities from the Wikimedia Movement and allows them to work together. Basic lexical data and structured data about many topics from Wikidata, functions that capture the necessary computations from Wikifunctions, and images and maps from Wikimedia Commons are all tied together in Abstract Wikipedia and made available for the more than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> The goal of Abstract Wikipedia is to make more knowledge available to more people in more languages, and to allow volunteer editors to be more effective and work across languages, no matter what language they speak. Improvements to the knowledge will automatically propagate to the Wikipedias, errors will be spotted faster and fixed more effectively, and collaborations across languages become possible. We are tearing down the language barriers which are keeping knowledge apart. </div> s4i1g8j4af8a46u7c3yr0zn38um7ziy 11692 11690 2026-07-08T19:09:43Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "Velaquí puei alcuentral un exempru con más luengas. <!-- ondi? -->" 11692 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages /> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia{{#translation:}}]] <span id="What_is_Abstract_Wikipedia?"></span> ==Lo qué es la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Güiquipedia Astrata es un nuevu proyeutu gelmanu dela Güiquipedia. La vissión de Güiquipedia es crial un mundu en que tolas pressonas tean acessu ala totaliá dela conocencia. La Güiquipedia astrata ayuadrá ala comuniá de voluntarius que contribuyin en Güiquipedia i los proyeutus aparentis a fechal las brechas de conocencia de holma efetiva. La Güiquipedia tien endilguis a tentu de más de 20 millonis de temas, en más de 300 diomas. Peru denguna destas luengas, por segu mesmas, premitin l'acessu a tolas conocencias destus 20 millonis de temas: l'ingrés tien muás de sieti millonis d'endilguis, el croata 230.000, i'l Suajili 100.000. A menus que puea vusté palral estas luengas, essas conocencias non sonin de acessu faci. I por munchu que las herramientas de trauzión aigan amejoráu conos rezientis ahilis en EA, estovia non án allegau al puntu de prouzil trauzionis fiabris en múltipris paris de luengas. La Güiquipedia Astrata premiti hazel essu sin gastal EA denguna. Ca passu nel prosseçu premaneci baxu baraji umanu, i es acessibri i aditabri palos voluntarius. Non ain acipurrius nin marrus sin espricaera denguna o descorregiblis: Sin angu vai mal puei apetusca-llu nun solu passu, i ai traslús total a tentu de cómu huorin criaus los testus. Non es sólu un moelu e probaliá que descogi la capital de Kenia al azal. Es una conocencia criá i almenistrá por umanus. <span id="How_does_Abstract_Wikipedia_work?"></span> ==Lo cómu enhunciona la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Los endilguis ena Güiquipedia Astrata sonin almacenás nuna notación endependienti delas luengas umanas. La entrifás de Güiquipedia Astarta premiti alos contribuyentis voluntarius a crial i mantenel aquesta notación endependienti. Nun segunderu passu, aquesta notación es muá nun testu en lenguagi umanu. Los passus precissus pa hazel qu'estu aconteça tamién sonin criaus i manteníus pola comuniá de voluntarius, en Güiquihuncionis. Estus passus puein gastal daus de [[D:|Güiquidata]], precurandu númberus de puebración, fechas de nacencia, o cassus gramaticalis inrregularis, qu'an síu añidíus i manteníus en Güiquidata polas comuniáis de voluntarius. Vea-si [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:How to create an article|Ayúa:Lo cómu crial un artícalu]] pa una guía passu a passu. Pongamos un exempru: «[[Q1033|Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.]]», que senifica «Nigeria es el país de mayol puebración n'África» en ingrés. En Güiquipedia Astrata, estu se podería almacenal dela siguienti holma: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], Z27243K5)}} O sin gastamus etiquetas ingressas pa estus dentificaoris: {{block indent|1=superlative(Nigeria, populous, country, Africa, language)}} Estu es una hunción llamá en Güiquihuncionis. Singún la luenga, otra hunción puei sel llamá. Pal ingrés, tenemus la siguienti llamá a hunción: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1002|Z1002]])}} I los resultaus nel testu ingrés {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa."''}} Sin uviéramus descogíu l'alemnán, algotra hunción uvira síu llamá: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1430|Z1430]])}} I esta criadría el siguienti testu n'alemán: {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria ist das bevölkerungsreichste Land Afrikas."''}} Velaquí puei alcuentral un exempru con más luengas. <!-- ondi? --> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> Abstract Wikipedia brings together numerous communities from the Wikimedia Movement and allows them to work together. Basic lexical data and structured data about many topics from Wikidata, functions that capture the necessary computations from Wikifunctions, and images and maps from Wikimedia Commons are all tied together in Abstract Wikipedia and made available for the more than 300 language editions of Wikipedia. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> The goal of Abstract Wikipedia is to make more knowledge available to more people in more languages, and to allow volunteer editors to be more effective and work across languages, no matter what language they speak. Improvements to the knowledge will automatically propagate to the Wikipedias, errors will be spotted faster and fixed more effectively, and collaborations across languages become possible. We are tearing down the language barriers which are keeping knowledge apart. </div> nmtzhmu53cpivx3chu2sa7o9izia2ih 11694 11692 2026-07-08T19:16:09Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "La Güiquipedia Astrata engancha numbirosas comuniáis dela Movición Güiquipedia i les premitin trebajal arrejuntaus. Daus léssicus básicus i daus estruturaus a tentu de munchas temas en Güiquidata, huncionis qu'entallan los cálculus precissus de Güiquihuncionis, i santus i mapas dendi Güiquimedia Commons, tóu attrjuntáu ena Güiquipedia Astrata i disponibri en las adicionis de más de 300 luengas en Güiquipedia." 11694 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages /> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia{{#translation:}}]] <span id="What_is_Abstract_Wikipedia?"></span> ==Lo qué es la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Güiquipedia Astrata es un nuevu proyeutu gelmanu dela Güiquipedia. La vissión de Güiquipedia es crial un mundu en que tolas pressonas tean acessu ala totaliá dela conocencia. La Güiquipedia astrata ayuadrá ala comuniá de voluntarius que contribuyin en Güiquipedia i los proyeutus aparentis a fechal las brechas de conocencia de holma efetiva. La Güiquipedia tien endilguis a tentu de más de 20 millonis de temas, en más de 300 diomas. Peru denguna destas luengas, por segu mesmas, premitin l'acessu a tolas conocencias destus 20 millonis de temas: l'ingrés tien muás de sieti millonis d'endilguis, el croata 230.000, i'l Suajili 100.000. A menus que puea vusté palral estas luengas, essas conocencias non sonin de acessu faci. I por munchu que las herramientas de trauzión aigan amejoráu conos rezientis ahilis en EA, estovia non án allegau al puntu de prouzil trauzionis fiabris en múltipris paris de luengas. La Güiquipedia Astrata premiti hazel essu sin gastal EA denguna. Ca passu nel prosseçu premaneci baxu baraji umanu, i es acessibri i aditabri palos voluntarius. Non ain acipurrius nin marrus sin espricaera denguna o descorregiblis: Sin angu vai mal puei apetusca-llu nun solu passu, i ai traslús total a tentu de cómu huorin criaus los testus. Non es sólu un moelu e probaliá que descogi la capital de Kenia al azal. Es una conocencia criá i almenistrá por umanus. <span id="How_does_Abstract_Wikipedia_work?"></span> ==Lo cómu enhunciona la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Los endilguis ena Güiquipedia Astrata sonin almacenás nuna notación endependienti delas luengas umanas. La entrifás de Güiquipedia Astarta premiti alos contribuyentis voluntarius a crial i mantenel aquesta notación endependienti. Nun segunderu passu, aquesta notación es muá nun testu en lenguagi umanu. Los passus precissus pa hazel qu'estu aconteça tamién sonin criaus i manteníus pola comuniá de voluntarius, en Güiquihuncionis. Estus passus puein gastal daus de [[D:|Güiquidata]], precurandu númberus de puebración, fechas de nacencia, o cassus gramaticalis inrregularis, qu'an síu añidíus i manteníus en Güiquidata polas comuniáis de voluntarius. Vea-si [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:How to create an article|Ayúa:Lo cómu crial un artícalu]] pa una guía passu a passu. Pongamos un exempru: «[[Q1033|Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.]]», que senifica «Nigeria es el país de mayol puebración n'África» en ingrés. En Güiquipedia Astrata, estu se podería almacenal dela siguienti holma: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], Z27243K5)}} O sin gastamus etiquetas ingressas pa estus dentificaoris: {{block indent|1=superlative(Nigeria, populous, country, Africa, language)}} Estu es una hunción llamá en Güiquihuncionis. Singún la luenga, otra hunción puei sel llamá. Pal ingrés, tenemus la siguienti llamá a hunción: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1002|Z1002]])}} I los resultaus nel testu ingrés {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa."''}} Sin uviéramus descogíu l'alemnán, algotra hunción uvira síu llamá: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1430|Z1430]])}} I esta criadría el siguienti testu n'alemán: {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria ist das bevölkerungsreichste Land Afrikas."''}} Velaquí puei alcuentral un exempru con más luengas. <!-- ondi? --> La Güiquipedia Astrata engancha numbirosas comuniáis dela Movición Güiquipedia i les premitin trebajal arrejuntaus. Daus léssicus básicus i daus estruturaus a tentu de munchas temas en Güiquidata, huncionis qu'entallan los cálculus precissus de Güiquihuncionis, i santus i mapas dendi Güiquimedia Commons, tóu attrjuntáu ena Güiquipedia Astrata i disponibri en las adicionis de más de 300 luengas en Güiquipedia. <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> The goal of Abstract Wikipedia is to make more knowledge available to more people in more languages, and to allow volunteer editors to be more effective and work across languages, no matter what language they speak. Improvements to the knowledge will automatically propagate to the Wikipedias, errors will be spotted faster and fixed more effectively, and collaborations across languages become possible. We are tearing down the language barriers which are keeping knowledge apart. </div> os41hqbtr2uudmdvu8na4klo914qbo5 11696 11694 2026-07-08T19:26:54Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "El proponimientu dela Güiquipedia Astrata es hazel más conocencias acesibris a más genti i en más luengas, i premitil alos aditoris voluntarius sel más fetivus i trebajal en más luengas, sin emportal la luenga que palrin. Los amejoramientus ala conocencia s'esparigidrían de holma utomática a polas Güiquipedias, los marrus sedrían apetuscaus más ligeramenti, i las calavoracionis entri luengas sedrían possibris. Estamus a cayel los murus delas luengas que desse..." 11696 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages /> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia{{#translation:}}]] <span id="What_is_Abstract_Wikipedia?"></span> ==Lo qué es la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Güiquipedia Astrata es un nuevu proyeutu gelmanu dela Güiquipedia. La vissión de Güiquipedia es crial un mundu en que tolas pressonas tean acessu ala totaliá dela conocencia. La Güiquipedia astrata ayuadrá ala comuniá de voluntarius que contribuyin en Güiquipedia i los proyeutus aparentis a fechal las brechas de conocencia de holma efetiva. La Güiquipedia tien endilguis a tentu de más de 20 millonis de temas, en más de 300 diomas. Peru denguna destas luengas, por segu mesmas, premitin l'acessu a tolas conocencias destus 20 millonis de temas: l'ingrés tien muás de sieti millonis d'endilguis, el croata 230.000, i'l Suajili 100.000. A menus que puea vusté palral estas luengas, essas conocencias non sonin de acessu faci. I por munchu que las herramientas de trauzión aigan amejoráu conos rezientis ahilis en EA, estovia non án allegau al puntu de prouzil trauzionis fiabris en múltipris paris de luengas. La Güiquipedia Astrata premiti hazel essu sin gastal EA denguna. Ca passu nel prosseçu premaneci baxu baraji umanu, i es acessibri i aditabri palos voluntarius. Non ain acipurrius nin marrus sin espricaera denguna o descorregiblis: Sin angu vai mal puei apetusca-llu nun solu passu, i ai traslús total a tentu de cómu huorin criaus los testus. Non es sólu un moelu e probaliá que descogi la capital de Kenia al azal. Es una conocencia criá i almenistrá por umanus. <span id="How_does_Abstract_Wikipedia_work?"></span> ==Lo cómu enhunciona la Güiquipedia Astrata?== Los endilguis ena Güiquipedia Astrata sonin almacenás nuna notación endependienti delas luengas umanas. La entrifás de Güiquipedia Astarta premiti alos contribuyentis voluntarius a crial i mantenel aquesta notación endependienti. Nun segunderu passu, aquesta notación es muá nun testu en lenguagi umanu. Los passus precissus pa hazel qu'estu aconteça tamién sonin criaus i manteníus pola comuniá de voluntarius, en Güiquihuncionis. Estus passus puein gastal daus de [[D:|Güiquidata]], precurandu númberus de puebración, fechas de nacencia, o cassus gramaticalis inrregularis, qu'an síu añidíus i manteníus en Güiquidata polas comuniáis de voluntarius. Vea-si [[Special:MyLanguage/Help:How to create an article|Ayúa:Lo cómu crial un artícalu]] pa una guía passu a passu. Pongamos un exempru: «[[Q1033|Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.]]», que senifica «Nigeria es el país de mayol puebración n'África» en ingrés. En Güiquipedia Astrata, estu se podería almacenal dela siguienti holma: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], Z27243K5)}} O sin gastamus etiquetas ingressas pa estus dentificaoris: {{block indent|1=superlative(Nigeria, populous, country, Africa, language)}} Estu es una hunción llamá en Güiquihuncionis. Singún la luenga, otra hunción puei sel llamá. Pal ingrés, tenemus la siguienti llamá a hunción: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1002|Z1002]])}} I los resultaus nel testu ingrés {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa."''}} Sin uviéramus descogíu l'alemnán, algotra hunción uvira síu llamá: {{block indent|1=[[f:Z27243|Z27243]]([[d:Q1033|Q1033]], [[d:Q138758272|Q138758272]], [[d:Q6256|Q6256]], [[d:Q15|Q15]], [[f:Z1430|Z1430]])}} I esta criadría el siguienti testu n'alemán: {{block indent|1=''"Nigeria ist das bevölkerungsreichste Land Afrikas."''}} Velaquí puei alcuentral un exempru con más luengas. <!-- ondi? --> La Güiquipedia Astrata engancha numbirosas comuniáis dela Movición Güiquipedia i les premitin trebajal arrejuntaus. Daus léssicus básicus i daus estruturaus a tentu de munchas temas en Güiquidata, huncionis qu'entallan los cálculus precissus de Güiquihuncionis, i santus i mapas dendi Güiquimedia Commons, tóu attrjuntáu ena Güiquipedia Astrata i disponibri en las adicionis de más de 300 luengas en Güiquipedia. El proponimientu dela Güiquipedia Astrata es hazel más conocencias acesibris a más genti i en más luengas, i premitil alos aditoris voluntarius sel más fetivus i trebajal en más luengas, sin emportal la luenga que palrin. Los amejoramientus ala conocencia s'esparigidrían de holma utomática a polas Güiquipedias, los marrus sedrían apetuscaus más ligeramenti, i las calavoracionis entri luengas sedrían possibris. Estamus a cayel los murus delas luengas que desseparan la conocencia. 45hrqxg1wyeyknq2wnbhsla1ax2r1gh 1198 4326 11687 11629 2026-07-08T19:06:36Z HackerPunki 5745 11687 wikitext text/x-wiki La Güiquipedia Astrata premiti hazel essu sin gastal EA denguna. Ca passu nel prosseçu premaneci baxu baraji umanu, i es acessibri i aditabri palos voluntarius. Non ain acipurrius nin marrus sin espricaera denguna o descorregiblis: Sin angu vai mal puei apetusca-llu nun solu passu, i ai traslús total a tentu de cómu huorin criaus los testus. Non es sólu un moelu e probaliá que descogi la capital de Kenia al azal. Es una conocencia criá i almenistrá por umanus. gcqyre8pfkqk6rup3e08m8ourcj1s69 1198 4361 11689 2026-07-08T19:08:27Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "I esta criadría el siguienti testu n'alemán:" 11689 wikitext text/x-wiki I esta criadría el siguienti testu n'alemán: jw82pawcu325xihehmia3vnw9glf7o2 1198 4362 11691 2026-07-08T19:09:42Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "Velaquí puei alcuentral un exempru con más luengas. <!-- ondi? -->" 11691 wikitext text/x-wiki Velaquí puei alcuentral un exempru con más luengas. <!-- ondi? --> 73wuvixjx9c4z3i74is8s8t15f3i0lf 1198 4363 11693 2026-07-08T19:16:08Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "La Güiquipedia Astrata engancha numbirosas comuniáis dela Movición Güiquipedia i les premitin trebajal arrejuntaus. Daus léssicus básicus i daus estruturaus a tentu de munchas temas en Güiquidata, huncionis qu'entallan los cálculus precissus de Güiquihuncionis, i santus i mapas dendi Güiquimedia Commons, tóu attrjuntáu ena Güiquipedia Astrata i disponibri en las adicionis de más de 300 luengas en Güiquipedia." 11693 wikitext text/x-wiki La Güiquipedia Astrata engancha numbirosas comuniáis dela Movición Güiquipedia i les premitin trebajal arrejuntaus. Daus léssicus básicus i daus estruturaus a tentu de munchas temas en Güiquidata, huncionis qu'entallan los cálculus precissus de Güiquihuncionis, i santus i mapas dendi Güiquimedia Commons, tóu attrjuntáu ena Güiquipedia Astrata i disponibri en las adicionis de más de 300 luengas en Güiquipedia. 2zp6lqmhwqcvw7kzpe2rmut82pnfz6o 1198 4364 11695 2026-07-08T19:26:53Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "El proponimientu dela Güiquipedia Astrata es hazel más conocencias acesibris a más genti i en más luengas, i premitil alos aditoris voluntarius sel más fetivus i trebajal en más luengas, sin emportal la luenga que palrin. Los amejoramientus ala conocencia s'esparigidrían de holma utomática a polas Güiquipedias, los marrus sedrían apetuscaus más ligeramenti, i las calavoracionis entri luengas sedrían possibris. Estamus a cayel los murus delas luengas que desse..." 11695 wikitext text/x-wiki El proponimientu dela Güiquipedia Astrata es hazel más conocencias acesibris a más genti i en más luengas, i premitil alos aditoris voluntarius sel más fetivus i trebajal en más luengas, sin emportal la luenga que palrin. Los amejoramientus ala conocencia s'esparigidrían de holma utomática a polas Güiquipedias, los marrus sedrían apetuscaus más ligeramenti, i las calavoracionis entri luengas sedrían possibris. Estamus a cayel los murus delas luengas que desseparan la conocencia. 7q4b23oomi1fmq0btaaeqiyzu76quc2 1198 4365 11697 2026-07-08T19:27:24Z HackerPunki 5745 Created page with "Güiquipedia Astrata: A tentu de" 11697 wikitext text/x-wiki Güiquipedia Astrata: A tentu de 2rcviqwfufxolmyjbyti1n1slscsdna 1198 4366 11714 2026-07-09T09:46:04Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 11714 wikitext text/x-wiki [[$1|2026-07-08]]: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone hta033gftblkh1dpxn58dmy9846lf8u