Abstract Wikipedia abstractwiki https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page MediaWiki 1.47.0-wmf.10 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Abstract Wikipedia Abstract Wikipedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 4 6 11959 11934 2026-07-13T12:51:39Z Sannita (WMF) 48 /* Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article */ new section 11959 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Rae|rae]] Great! Would you be willing to add it to https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Useful_functions_for_article_composition ? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 12:47, 10 July 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Infoboxes == I changed layout of the infoboxes, to be more in line with Wikipedia's infoboxes. See for example [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] "infobox for city" used in [[Q90]] "Paris". I would like [[f:Z37625|Z37625]] "infobox row" to check if a claim exists in Wikidata, but I have difficulties with he parameters for [[f:Z27299|Z27299]] "Wikidata item has claim?". With with literal input it works but with argument references it gives an error. Who can fix this?<br> Furthermore I think it would be nice it we could add a pen-icon next to the values to be able to edit the claim on Wikidata, and pen-icon at the property to edit the label. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:04, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Lexemes of property names == {{ping|HenkvD|feeglgeef|GrounderUK}} Hello. Please could anybody tell me their opinion on this question? It may be necessary to find a lexeme corresponding to the name of a property. For instance, [[f:Z28445|Z28445]] "most recent year-specific sentence about item" has a property reference as argument and needs the name of the property to be rendered in the output; the particular property could be {{Q|P1082}}. In the English implementation, the name of the property "population" is found from the WikiData property attributes, but for other languages other syntactical information such as gender may be needed, so I suppose that a link to the lexeme is required. How should the rendering function find a link to the lexeme? Is there a way to find the item corresponding to the property? Or should the syntactical information be found some other way? [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:14, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :Ah. Now I've found {{Q|P1629}}, so i suppose that that provides a solution. Sorry to disturb you. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:44, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article == Hi all, I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the community regarding how easy or difficult is to construct a new abstract article. Consider I'm a newbie that wants to create a new abstract article about my home city. What would you suggest I do first? Is there a sufficiently good example I can copy and adapt? Can I add already almost everything that I would like to add (say, number of inhabitants, region where my city is, mayor of the city, stuff like that) or is there something I ''cannot'' add still? What is there and what is missing at the moment? Thanks in advance for your answers! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:51, 13 July 2026 (UTC) f1alemkno175t6d0qvjj4dm1aaq0cca 11962 11959 2026-07-13T13:56:54Z HenkvD 1447 /* Infoboxes */ Reply 11962 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Rae|rae]] Great! Would you be willing to add it to https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Useful_functions_for_article_composition ? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 12:47, 10 July 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Infoboxes == I changed layout of the infoboxes, to be more in line with Wikipedia's infoboxes. See for example [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] "infobox for city" used in [[Q90]] "Paris". I would like [[f:Z37625|Z37625]] "infobox row" to check if a claim exists in Wikidata, but I have difficulties with he parameters for [[f:Z27299|Z27299]] "Wikidata item has claim?". With with literal input it works but with argument references it gives an error. Who can fix this?<br> Furthermore I think it would be nice it we could add a pen-icon next to the values to be able to edit the claim on Wikidata, and pen-icon at the property to edit the label. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:04, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :I was able to fix my error. Infobox rows will now only be shown when a claim exists. That will prevent errors a particular claim is missing for a particular city. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 13:56, 13 July 2026 (UTC) == Lexemes of property names == {{ping|HenkvD|feeglgeef|GrounderUK}} Hello. Please could anybody tell me their opinion on this question? It may be necessary to find a lexeme corresponding to the name of a property. For instance, [[f:Z28445|Z28445]] "most recent year-specific sentence about item" has a property reference as argument and needs the name of the property to be rendered in the output; the particular property could be {{Q|P1082}}. In the English implementation, the name of the property "population" is found from the WikiData property attributes, but for other languages other syntactical information such as gender may be needed, so I suppose that a link to the lexeme is required. How should the rendering function find a link to the lexeme? Is there a way to find the item corresponding to the property? Or should the syntactical information be found some other way? [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:14, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :Ah. Now I've found {{Q|P1629}}, so i suppose that that provides a solution. Sorry to disturb you. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:44, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article == Hi all, I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the community regarding how easy or difficult is to construct a new abstract article. Consider I'm a newbie that wants to create a new abstract article about my home city. What would you suggest I do first? Is there a sufficiently good example I can copy and adapt? Can I add already almost everything that I would like to add (say, number of inhabitants, region where my city is, mayor of the city, stuff like that) or is there something I ''cannot'' add still? What is there and what is missing at the moment? Thanks in advance for your answers! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:51, 13 July 2026 (UTC) 5kcq624acepqs02wda4u62is4bm7de7 11963 11962 2026-07-13T14:08:14Z HenkvD 1447 /* Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article */ Reply 11963 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Rae|rae]] Great! Would you be willing to add it to https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Useful_functions_for_article_composition ? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 12:47, 10 July 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Infoboxes == I changed layout of the infoboxes, to be more in line with Wikipedia's infoboxes. See for example [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] "infobox for city" used in [[Q90]] "Paris". I would like [[f:Z37625|Z37625]] "infobox row" to check if a claim exists in Wikidata, but I have difficulties with he parameters for [[f:Z27299|Z27299]] "Wikidata item has claim?". With with literal input it works but with argument references it gives an error. Who can fix this?<br> Furthermore I think it would be nice it we could add a pen-icon next to the values to be able to edit the claim on Wikidata, and pen-icon at the property to edit the label. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:04, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :I was able to fix my error. Infobox rows will now only be shown when a claim exists. That will prevent errors a particular claim is missing for a particular city. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 13:56, 13 July 2026 (UTC) == Lexemes of property names == {{ping|HenkvD|feeglgeef|GrounderUK}} Hello. Please could anybody tell me their opinion on this question? It may be necessary to find a lexeme corresponding to the name of a property. For instance, [[f:Z28445|Z28445]] "most recent year-specific sentence about item" has a property reference as argument and needs the name of the property to be rendered in the output; the particular property could be {{Q|P1082}}. In the English implementation, the name of the property "population" is found from the WikiData property attributes, but for other languages other syntactical information such as gender may be needed, so I suppose that a link to the lexeme is required. How should the rendering function find a link to the lexeme? Is there a way to find the item corresponding to the property? Or should the syntactical information be found some other way? [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:14, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :Ah. Now I've found {{Q|P1629}}, so i suppose that that provides a solution. Sorry to disturb you. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:44, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article == Hi all, I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the community regarding how easy or difficult is to construct a new abstract article. Consider I'm a newbie that wants to create a new abstract article about my home city. What would you suggest I do first? Is there a sufficiently good example I can copy and adapt? Can I add already almost everything that I would like to add (say, number of inhabitants, region where my city is, mayor of the city, stuff like that) or is there something I ''cannot'' add still? What is there and what is missing at the moment? Thanks in advance for your answers! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:51, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :Sannita, in general it is very difficult (even for me) to construct a new abstract article from scratch. Copying from an existing article is easier, as also mentioned in [[Help:How to create an article]]. That example is also a city, so we better make that article a good example. The information you mention could be in the infobox, which is also available to use and extend (if performance permits). Creating a article by copy/paste should be done for each sentence or paragraph. Add additional sentences is still very difficult. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:08, 13 July 2026 (UTC) imo8dzsciljx04oktipj0jvvz3bgj36 12002 11963 2026-07-14T02:21:09Z EatingCarBatteries 1378 /* Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article */ Reply 12002 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Rae|rae]] Great! Would you be willing to add it to https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Useful_functions_for_article_composition ? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 12:47, 10 July 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Infoboxes == I changed layout of the infoboxes, to be more in line with Wikipedia's infoboxes. See for example [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] "infobox for city" used in [[Q90]] "Paris". I would like [[f:Z37625|Z37625]] "infobox row" to check if a claim exists in Wikidata, but I have difficulties with he parameters for [[f:Z27299|Z27299]] "Wikidata item has claim?". With with literal input it works but with argument references it gives an error. Who can fix this?<br> Furthermore I think it would be nice it we could add a pen-icon next to the values to be able to edit the claim on Wikidata, and pen-icon at the property to edit the label. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:04, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :I was able to fix my error. Infobox rows will now only be shown when a claim exists. That will prevent errors a particular claim is missing for a particular city. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 13:56, 13 July 2026 (UTC) == Lexemes of property names == {{ping|HenkvD|feeglgeef|GrounderUK}} Hello. Please could anybody tell me their opinion on this question? It may be necessary to find a lexeme corresponding to the name of a property. For instance, [[f:Z28445|Z28445]] "most recent year-specific sentence about item" has a property reference as argument and needs the name of the property to be rendered in the output; the particular property could be {{Q|P1082}}. In the English implementation, the name of the property "population" is found from the WikiData property attributes, but for other languages other syntactical information such as gender may be needed, so I suppose that a link to the lexeme is required. How should the rendering function find a link to the lexeme? Is there a way to find the item corresponding to the property? Or should the syntactical information be found some other way? [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:14, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :Ah. Now I've found {{Q|P1629}}, so i suppose that that provides a solution. Sorry to disturb you. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:44, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article == Hi all, I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the community regarding how easy or difficult is to construct a new abstract article. Consider I'm a newbie that wants to create a new abstract article about my home city. What would you suggest I do first? Is there a sufficiently good example I can copy and adapt? Can I add already almost everything that I would like to add (say, number of inhabitants, region where my city is, mayor of the city, stuff like that) or is there something I ''cannot'' add still? What is there and what is missing at the moment? Thanks in advance for your answers! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:51, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :Sannita, in general it is very difficult (even for me) to construct a new abstract article from scratch. Copying from an existing article is easier, as also mentioned in [[Help:How to create an article]]. That example is also a city, so we better make that article a good example. The information you mention could be in the infobox, which is also available to use and extend (if performance permits). Creating a article by copy/paste should be done for each sentence or paragraph. Add additional sentences is still very difficult. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:08, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :The biggest challenge for me would be finding the right functions to do the job. It's kinda to the point where the help article, mentioned by HenkvD, is just saying to copy other articles. The issue is with trying to add more "unique" sentence structures that may not be in every article. For example, take this: :<code>New York is known for being the financial hub for the United States</code> :More abstractly: <code>X is known for being Y for the Z</code> :If a function that does something like that doesn't exist, that pushes the user into a weird space where they may have to use a different function that may sound more robotic or be grammatically incorrect. :It's not hard to create a stub abstract article, but anything beyond that takes a lot of time and effort to find the right functions for the job. Additionally, dealing with different data types (ex: Wikidata item reference vs Wikidata item) may turn off people who aren't familiar with computer science principles. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 02:21, 14 July 2026 (UTC) h4l97z4kithv0r0hrrja3ob32s4uvim 12005 12002 2026-07-14T02:41:59Z EatingCarBatteries 1378 /* Infoboxes */ Reply 12005 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Rae|rae]] Great! Would you be willing to add it to https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Useful_functions_for_article_composition ? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 12:47, 10 July 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Infoboxes == I changed layout of the infoboxes, to be more in line with Wikipedia's infoboxes. See for example [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] "infobox for city" used in [[Q90]] "Paris". I would like [[f:Z37625|Z37625]] "infobox row" to check if a claim exists in Wikidata, but I have difficulties with he parameters for [[f:Z27299|Z27299]] "Wikidata item has claim?". With with literal input it works but with argument references it gives an error. Who can fix this?<br> Furthermore I think it would be nice it we could add a pen-icon next to the values to be able to edit the claim on Wikidata, and pen-icon at the property to edit the label. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:04, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :I was able to fix my error. Infobox rows will now only be shown when a claim exists. That will prevent errors a particular claim is missing for a particular city. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 13:56, 13 July 2026 (UTC) ::Looks awesome. Though I was trying it with other cities (such as Chicago and Moscow) in English, and it was throwing orchestrator rate limit errors. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 02:41, 14 July 2026 (UTC) == Lexemes of property names == {{ping|HenkvD|feeglgeef|GrounderUK}} Hello. Please could anybody tell me their opinion on this question? It may be necessary to find a lexeme corresponding to the name of a property. For instance, [[f:Z28445|Z28445]] "most recent year-specific sentence about item" has a property reference as argument and needs the name of the property to be rendered in the output; the particular property could be {{Q|P1082}}. In the English implementation, the name of the property "population" is found from the WikiData property attributes, but for other languages other syntactical information such as gender may be needed, so I suppose that a link to the lexeme is required. How should the rendering function find a link to the lexeme? Is there a way to find the item corresponding to the property? Or should the syntactical information be found some other way? [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:14, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :Ah. Now I've found {{Q|P1629}}, so i suppose that that provides a solution. Sorry to disturb you. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:44, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article == Hi all, I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the community regarding how easy or difficult is to construct a new abstract article. Consider I'm a newbie that wants to create a new abstract article about my home city. What would you suggest I do first? Is there a sufficiently good example I can copy and adapt? Can I add already almost everything that I would like to add (say, number of inhabitants, region where my city is, mayor of the city, stuff like that) or is there something I ''cannot'' add still? What is there and what is missing at the moment? Thanks in advance for your answers! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:51, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :Sannita, in general it is very difficult (even for me) to construct a new abstract article from scratch. Copying from an existing article is easier, as also mentioned in [[Help:How to create an article]]. That example is also a city, so we better make that article a good example. The information you mention could be in the infobox, which is also available to use and extend (if performance permits). Creating a article by copy/paste should be done for each sentence or paragraph. Add additional sentences is still very difficult. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:08, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :The biggest challenge for me would be finding the right functions to do the job. It's kinda to the point where the help article, mentioned by HenkvD, is just saying to copy other articles. The issue is with trying to add more "unique" sentence structures that may not be in every article. For example, take this: :<code>New York is known for being the financial hub for the United States</code> :More abstractly: <code>X is known for being Y for the Z</code> :If a function that does something like that doesn't exist, that pushes the user into a weird space where they may have to use a different function that may sound more robotic or be grammatically incorrect. :It's not hard to create a stub abstract article, but anything beyond that takes a lot of time and effort to find the right functions for the job. Additionally, dealing with different data types (ex: Wikidata item reference vs Wikidata item) may turn off people who aren't familiar with computer science principles. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 02:21, 14 July 2026 (UTC) jq7ybl9sz8t3mzvmsysz7gw45gb5ene 12022 12005 2026-07-14T11:33:40Z Qcne 4049 New topic, Meta RFC 12022 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Rae|rae]] Great! Would you be willing to add it to https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Useful_functions_for_article_composition ? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 12:47, 10 July 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Infoboxes == I changed layout of the infoboxes, to be more in line with Wikipedia's infoboxes. See for example [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] "infobox for city" used in [[Q90]] "Paris". I would like [[f:Z37625|Z37625]] "infobox row" to check if a claim exists in Wikidata, but I have difficulties with he parameters for [[f:Z27299|Z27299]] "Wikidata item has claim?". With with literal input it works but with argument references it gives an error. Who can fix this?<br> Furthermore I think it would be nice it we could add a pen-icon next to the values to be able to edit the claim on Wikidata, and pen-icon at the property to edit the label. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:04, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :I was able to fix my error. Infobox rows will now only be shown when a claim exists. That will prevent errors a particular claim is missing for a particular city. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 13:56, 13 July 2026 (UTC) ::Looks awesome. Though I was trying it with other cities (such as Chicago and Moscow) in English, and it was throwing orchestrator rate limit errors. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 02:41, 14 July 2026 (UTC) == Lexemes of property names == {{ping|HenkvD|feeglgeef|GrounderUK}} Hello. Please could anybody tell me their opinion on this question? It may be necessary to find a lexeme corresponding to the name of a property. For instance, [[f:Z28445|Z28445]] "most recent year-specific sentence about item" has a property reference as argument and needs the name of the property to be rendered in the output; the particular property could be {{Q|P1082}}. In the English implementation, the name of the property "population" is found from the WikiData property attributes, but for other languages other syntactical information such as gender may be needed, so I suppose that a link to the lexeme is required. How should the rendering function find a link to the lexeme? Is there a way to find the item corresponding to the property? Or should the syntactical information be found some other way? [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:14, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :Ah. Now I've found {{Q|P1629}}, so i suppose that that provides a solution. Sorry to disturb you. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:44, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article == Hi all, I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the community regarding how easy or difficult is to construct a new abstract article. Consider I'm a newbie that wants to create a new abstract article about my home city. What would you suggest I do first? Is there a sufficiently good example I can copy and adapt? Can I add already almost everything that I would like to add (say, number of inhabitants, region where my city is, mayor of the city, stuff like that) or is there something I ''cannot'' add still? What is there and what is missing at the moment? Thanks in advance for your answers! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:51, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :Sannita, in general it is very difficult (even for me) to construct a new abstract article from scratch. Copying from an existing article is easier, as also mentioned in [[Help:How to create an article]]. That example is also a city, so we better make that article a good example. The information you mention could be in the infobox, which is also available to use and extend (if performance permits). Creating a article by copy/paste should be done for each sentence or paragraph. Add additional sentences is still very difficult. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:08, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :The biggest challenge for me would be finding the right functions to do the job. It's kinda to the point where the help article, mentioned by HenkvD, is just saying to copy other articles. The issue is with trying to add more "unique" sentence structures that may not be in every article. For example, take this: :<code>New York is known for being the financial hub for the United States</code> :More abstractly: <code>X is known for being Y for the Z</code> :If a function that does something like that doesn't exist, that pushes the user into a weird space where they may have to use a different function that may sound more robotic or be grammatically incorrect. :It's not hard to create a stub abstract article, but anything beyond that takes a lot of time and effort to find the right functions for the job. Additionally, dealing with different data types (ex: Wikidata item reference vs Wikidata item) may turn off people who aren't familiar with computer science principles. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 02:21, 14 July 2026 (UTC) ==Discussion at [[Meta:Requests_for_comment/The_future_of_Abstract_Wikipedia|Meta Requests for comment: The future of Abstract Wikipedia]]== [[File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg|20px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[Meta:Requests_for_comment/The_future_of_Abstract_Wikipedia|Meta Requests for comment: The future of Abstract Wikipedia]]. <!-- Template:Please see --> <span style="background-color: #006888; border-radius: 1em; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px;">'''[[User:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">qcne</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:Qcne|<span style="color: GhostWhite">(talk)</span>]]</small></span> 11:17, 14 July 2026 (UTC) 838hbsm18xgdzg6jx7dvs7uzzcoa2nn 12023 12022 2026-07-14T11:34:47Z Qcne 4049 Signature 12023 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Rae|rae]] Great! Would you be willing to add it to https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Useful_functions_for_article_composition ? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 12:47, 10 July 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Infoboxes == I changed layout of the infoboxes, to be more in line with Wikipedia's infoboxes. See for example [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] "infobox for city" used in [[Q90]] "Paris". I would like [[f:Z37625|Z37625]] "infobox row" to check if a claim exists in Wikidata, but I have difficulties with he parameters for [[f:Z27299|Z27299]] "Wikidata item has claim?". With with literal input it works but with argument references it gives an error. Who can fix this?<br> Furthermore I think it would be nice it we could add a pen-icon next to the values to be able to edit the claim on Wikidata, and pen-icon at the property to edit the label. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:04, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :I was able to fix my error. Infobox rows will now only be shown when a claim exists. That will prevent errors a particular claim is missing for a particular city. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 13:56, 13 July 2026 (UTC) ::Looks awesome. Though I was trying it with other cities (such as Chicago and Moscow) in English, and it was throwing orchestrator rate limit errors. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 02:41, 14 July 2026 (UTC) == Lexemes of property names == {{ping|HenkvD|feeglgeef|GrounderUK}} Hello. Please could anybody tell me their opinion on this question? It may be necessary to find a lexeme corresponding to the name of a property. For instance, [[f:Z28445|Z28445]] "most recent year-specific sentence about item" has a property reference as argument and needs the name of the property to be rendered in the output; the particular property could be {{Q|P1082}}. In the English implementation, the name of the property "population" is found from the WikiData property attributes, but for other languages other syntactical information such as gender may be needed, so I suppose that a link to the lexeme is required. How should the rendering function find a link to the lexeme? Is there a way to find the item corresponding to the property? Or should the syntactical information be found some other way? [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:14, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :Ah. Now I've found {{Q|P1629}}, so i suppose that that provides a solution. Sorry to disturb you. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:44, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article == Hi all, I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the community regarding how easy or difficult is to construct a new abstract article. Consider I'm a newbie that wants to create a new abstract article about my home city. What would you suggest I do first? Is there a sufficiently good example I can copy and adapt? Can I add already almost everything that I would like to add (say, number of inhabitants, region where my city is, mayor of the city, stuff like that) or is there something I ''cannot'' add still? What is there and what is missing at the moment? Thanks in advance for your answers! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:51, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :Sannita, in general it is very difficult (even for me) to construct a new abstract article from scratch. Copying from an existing article is easier, as also mentioned in [[Help:How to create an article]]. That example is also a city, so we better make that article a good example. The information you mention could be in the infobox, which is also available to use and extend (if performance permits). Creating a article by copy/paste should be done for each sentence or paragraph. Add additional sentences is still very difficult. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:08, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :The biggest challenge for me would be finding the right functions to do the job. It's kinda to the point where the help article, mentioned by HenkvD, is just saying to copy other articles. The issue is with trying to add more "unique" sentence structures that may not be in every article. For example, take this: :<code>New York is known for being the financial hub for the United States</code> :More abstractly: <code>X is known for being Y for the Z</code> :If a function that does something like that doesn't exist, that pushes the user into a weird space where they may have to use a different function that may sound more robotic or be grammatically incorrect. :It's not hard to create a stub abstract article, but anything beyond that takes a lot of time and effort to find the right functions for the job. Additionally, dealing with different data types (ex: Wikidata item reference vs Wikidata item) may turn off people who aren't familiar with computer science principles. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 02:21, 14 July 2026 (UTC) ==Discussion at [[Meta:Requests_for_comment/The_future_of_Abstract_Wikipedia|Meta Requests for comment: The future of Abstract Wikipedia]]== [[File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg|20px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[Meta:Requests_for_comment/The_future_of_Abstract_Wikipedia|Meta Requests for comment: The future of Abstract Wikipedia]]. <!-- Template:Please see --> 11:34, 14 July 2026 (UTC) quogdmwnfkjhw9telrnyihlyt0f4bpp 12024 12023 2026-07-14T11:35:04Z Qcne 4049 Signature correction! 12024 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3">According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?<br>@[[User User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] Yes, it is correct. For pinyin transliterations, the only way is lemma-based. I'll also encourage you to read in underrepresented [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_Chinese Varieties of Chinese] :-) I am working on them on English Wiktionary. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC)</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Rae|rae]] Great! Would you be willing to add it to https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Useful_functions_for_article_composition ? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 12:47, 10 July 2026 (UTC) ===Easier solution?=== Maybe a much easier solution would be to replace the "." after each sentence with ". " (a full stop and a space). The paragraghs might add an extra space, but that is displayed as one by the browser. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) :@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]]: I originally thought this was a bit hacky, but it actually makes sense -- the spacing is determined by punctuation. For example, English [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_spacing#cite_ref-Bringhurst_2004._p.28_4-0 used to have] the convention of using two spaces, Chinese uses no spaces, and in Tibetan, ། marks the end of a short phrase or sentence (still needs a space after it), while ༎ marks the end of a paragraph. (Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!) This at least matches our current abstraction model well. Also, I don't think this will lead to extra spaces. ——[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 11:21, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::<nowiki><tangent></nowiki> <em>「Yes, there's a dedicated paragraph-ending punctuation mark!」</em> We English folk have used ¶ for that before, so I don't suppose a paragraph mark in Tibetan is all that unusual... <nowiki></tangent></nowiki> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :An unnecessary space in the end of a text, though invisible, cannot be a good idea. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:43, 18 June 2026 (UTC) ::I agree. We should not change functions which correctly return sentences into functions which return sentences with spaces stuck to them. {{zd|Z35672}} works well until the performance is good enough for {{zd|Z33068}}. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::I think if the current WL system allowed for ''starting'' tags and then ending them at a later indeterminate point, Z33068's performance issues could be perhaps mitigated slightly. One could use a ''start paragraph'' call, followed by some sentences in some well-established form, and then close the paragraph with an ''end paragraph'' call. An issue I've had with paragraphs is that you can't see the paragraph build itself up sentence-by-sentence, and the failure of a ''single'' function call means the inability of the ''entire'' paragraph to render at all—something that would, of course, be fixed by making paragraphs more granular in this way. Something to think about, although I am sure it's not possible presently (since the abstract HTML renderer doesn't build up the document gradually, and instead expects the HTML to be well-formed from the outset). &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:28, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::: Each fragment is its own div, and you can't do <nowiki><div><p></div><div>[text]</div><div></p></div></nowiki>, it will break the browser's tag grouping. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:55, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Hence why I mentioned that I don't suspect it will be possible. The concept is just something to think about. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:34, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Feeglgeef, I am struggling with the output. Can you have a look? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:02, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Can you link me to where? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:08, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{Q|90}} in a language vls should give a magenta text. Instead it gives "Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Unspecified error". [[f:Z33422]] results "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>" (as a string). [[f:Z26039]] also gives "<span style="color: magenta;">Parys ∈ {stad}</span>", but it's test [[f:Z33726]] gives an HTML equivalent, not a string. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:59, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::You shouldn't be returning HTML in string-typed functions. I'm not sure, then, how we implement your proposal, actually. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:54, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I tried with [[f:Z35921]] but now the output is the literal text, and not HTML. Does anybody have an idea how to implement the text in a color? ::::::::Alternatively we could use texts like // Parys ∈ {stad} //. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 16:51, 31 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::::: You need to output [[f:Z89|HTML fragment]], not String. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:16, 31 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with the above that this should not be applied to functions which return strings or monolingual text. If anything, it might work to insert it into functions returning HTML. The most egregious problems I've seen are when I tried to render into an RTL language (e.g. Hebrew 0 try on [[Q408]]), and it spilled all the formatting all over the article. I will revert the change to the string default at [[:f:Z33421]], but suggest it is tested carefully if implemented elsewhere. In general I prefer just marking with spans rather than colours at this stage. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:49, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :: Perhaps mark with spans given a specific ID and then allow users to use a userscript/gadget to paint them magenta? That seems like the most considerate approach. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:12, 3 June 2026 (UTC) :::[[:f:Z32234]] suggests something like <code>span lang="mul"</code> or similar. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:20, 3 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I will (carefully) try some other alternatives, and use a personal class in my userscript for <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text"></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:05, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::: If possible, can you use <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? This would allow it to also catch some instances automatically. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:14, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::I have done so, but how can I set my personal stylesheet to show color magenta with <nowiki><span lang="mul"></nowiki>? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:20, 4 June 2026 (UTC) ::::::: try adding this to [[Special:MyPage/common.css]]: ::::::: [lang="mul"] {<br> color: magenta;<br> } [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:48, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : I created a new implementation for [[f:Z35921]] using emoji text, resulting in texts like "❌≪Paris ∈ {city}≫❌". It works on [[Q90]] for not yet specified languages like Zeelandic. I will be bold in adding this other functions that use default texts. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::I can see on my phone, but it goes blank on my laptop. What is the role of ''<nowiki><span class="anchor" id="1"></nowiki>''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 12:15, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|Bunnypranav}} I can see the text everywhere (I tested connected and not connected, on my phone, laptop, with Chrome or Firefox ; what system do you use?). As the name suggest, the span anchor is here to create an HTML anchor, so you can do link like [[Abstract_Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#7]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 13:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm on Brave browser. Nevertheless, forget it. The culprit might be some random customization I did to my system which I cannot recollect. The reason is the span tag only though, tried a preview kicking out a text to just outside the tag and it worked. [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 14:23, 30 May 2026 (UTC) :Globally, it looks fine. I think that reasons 7 and 8 may need some examples/clarifications. There is no global consensus when it comes to creating categories. For example, categories for building interiors and exteriors. Personally, I feel that they are useful for easier discoverability. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 15:39, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've copied them over from enwiki. They're probably included in "content otherwise not suited for an encyclopedia." Since sysops can't speedy them, it'd be up to commenters on [[Abstract:RFD]] to determine. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:48, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Done! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:33, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #250 is out: Looking back and forward == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-30|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a recollection of our work so far, now that we celebrate our 250th newsletter, we share with you a summary of our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:04, 1 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Yet another suggested function proposal == Perhaps it's a bit early, but can [[f:Z36049]] be added to [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]? See [[Q38726]] for an example use. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:54, 4 June 2026 (UTC) : Meh. Consider this withdrawn until we know more about what we want image creation to look like. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 05:06, 5 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #251 is out: The illustrated encyclopaedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-05|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce our first function to import images on Abstract Wikipedia, we present our Functions of the Week, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1780939800 June 8, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:14, 5 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Questions on a simple fragment example "The Eiffel Tower is a monument" == Moved from [[f:Wikifunctions:Project chat]] Hello. I would like to be able to use the function [[f:Z26039]] to generate sentences like "the Eiffel Tower is a monument" or "la torre Eiffel es un monumento" in Spanish. It already raises a lot of questions. Question 1: I should be able to set the first input "entity" to {{Q|Q243}} and the second input "class" to {{Q|Q4989906}} and get the correct sentence, shouldn't I? Just checking. Question 2: [[f:Z26039]] calls a language-specific function like "Spanish article-less instantiating sentence" [[f:Z26337]], which uses the label of the Wikidata item to get the text for "Eiffel Tower", which is similar to the lemma of the lexeme. But this would not be acceptable in production, would it? The item label "belongs" to all Wikidata users, not to Abstract Wikipedia users, and there is no guarantee what it might contain, such as a parenthesis for disambiguation. Or am I wrong? Question 3a: We need to have a lexeme for the combination "Eiffel Tower" in each language, don't we? For instance in languages with gender, the lexeme is the only place to find the gender. It is true that if we know that the equivalent of "Tower" is the head word, syntactical information can be found under the lexeme for "tower", and it would be good to use a system like that. But the only place that the syntactic dependency information could be located is under the lexeme. Question 3b: At present for [[f:Z26039]] etc. to work, we have to add any forms or syntax information to the lexeme of the whole phrase, such as "Eiffel Tower". But property {{Q|P5238}} with attributes {{Q|P9763}} and {{Q|P9764}} can be used to define the structure and avoid duplicating the syntax information. What lexeme would be used for "Eiffel" in this case? Would it be the same as a lexeme for {{Q|Q20882}}? That makes no sense to me. I propose that there should be a dummy lexeme in each language which could be added to {{Q|P5238}} instead of a real lexeme to mean "invariant element". Question 4: As has already been pointed out elsewhere, the fragment functions do not work well with the initial definite article in languages like English, Spanish and German. Examples: * "'''The Eiffel Tower is a monument.'''" The item label "Eiffel Tower" omits the article and so the result omits the initial "The" in English. French, Spanish and German are similar. * "'''The Sun is a star.'''" Similarly the article is wrongly omitted, also in French, Spanish and German. * "'''Westminster Abbey is a monument.'''" This is OK in English and German as no article is needed, but not in French or Spanish where it is, for instance "La Abadía de Westminster es un monumento". * "'''Latin is a dead language.'''" Also this is OK in English and German but not in French or Spanish, where an article is needed. * "'''Jupiter is a planet.'''". This does not need an article and is OK in all the languages; I include this to show that you cannot assume that there is an article in all cases in French and Spanish. How should the language functions find out whether an article is needed? In some cases, where the lemma is a phrase like "Abadía de Westminster" in Spanish, I think that it could be deduced, but in general there is no rule to give the answer. Using different rendering functions according to the case is '''not''' a solution, although it might work for a few specific languages like these four. It would not be acceptable because there will be many, many other cases of syntactical choices to be made for all the different languages, and we cannot expect the person writing the abstract code to take them all into account. So I suppose that a declaration in the lexeme is needed to solve this problem. I suppose that there must already be linguistic terminology for this problem, but I don't know it. I would be grateful for any comments on any of these questions. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:02, 5 June 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] I will try to answer a few of your questions, although I am not linguist. ::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for your answer. I will add my comments in your answers below. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :1. Yes I agree the correct inputs for "entity" is {{Q|243}} and the second input "class" is {{Q|4989906}}. :2. In case no lexeme information is needed (for gender or so) the Wikidata label of {{Q|243}} should be OK. Labels in Wikidata don't contain parentheses for disambiguation. For instance there are many cities called Amsterdam like {{Q|478456}}. {{Q|959016}} and {{Q|727}} :: Well I sometimes add disambiguation parentheses in the case of taxonomic items, for instance I use the label "Sphaerodes (fungus)" because the genus name ''Sphaerodes'' is both a fungus and an insect. As far as I know, it is allowed to add a parenthesis like this to the label. When selecting the item this is not needed, since the description is also visible, but when looking at the genus name on the page, one would not be able to tell whether the link goes to the fungus or the insect, and sometimes such links get muddled up. If there should be a rule that the label must be the same as the lemma text, then I think that needs to be agreed and publicized. :3a. In case gender is needed, for example for gender for La Abadía de Westminster I think we need lexemes :: Yes, so it seems to me that this means that for languages like French and German, every single item needs a lexeme. On the other hand, in a separate conversation it was suggested to me that genders might be established programmatically, and the lexeme would only be needed in exceptional cases. This seems to require an architecture which is different from what I was expecting, and certainly not available at present for the fragment examples (surely the logic will be too complicated for composition code alone). Even in English, many items may need to be used in the plural; the rendering function will need to find the plural of the given item. It can execute a heuristic function (add "s", change "y" to "ies", etc.), and a lexeme is only needed if the label word is "irregular". But note that it has to query the lexeme every single time to see if one exists, in which case it must take precedence. :3b. I don't know what you mean, so I can't answer that. ::It is a detailed question about how to fill in the attributes of {{Q|P5238}}. :4. You are right some examples like Sun is a star" are incorrect and need an article for some languages/some lemmma. I don't know if there is a linguistic terminology or Lexeme property that would indicate it needs an initial definite article. :::Yes. In fact, the strange thing for me is rather that in encyclopedia entries, the article is omitted in the article heading. For instance, in the examples above if the English labels were given as "The Eiffel Tower" and "The Sun", and similarly in the other languages, the fragment examples would work and where would be the problem? In paper encyclopedias, this would mean that many entries would come together under "The". Anyway, I don't think this can be changed and so a property is needed. I would have thought that the property would have to be on a lexeme object. :: On {{Q|727}} in English the noun Netherlands has an additional "the" in English. This is added by [[f:Z32645]] item indicates definite article, English. Functions should be created for each language, and added to the appropriate sentences. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:58, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, Z32645 is interesting. The two implementations are very different, aren't they? The function doesn't work for "Eiffel Tower", but the first implementation could do if "the Eiffel Tower" were an alias. That could be instead of the lexeme property(?) But if we are imposing conventions like that, I suppose we need to talk to other Wikidata users. :Even for western languages there are a lot of different rules; What about the many other languages in the world. All this makes it a real challenge. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:04, 8 June 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, I think it is an extreme challenge, especially withou being able to call external functions in Python etc. Surely this is too complicated for composition? Thanks again for your answers. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:42, 9 June 2026 (UTC) :::This was discussed at [[:commons:File:Abstract_Wikipedia_Volunteer_Corner_2026-06.webm|Monday’s volunteers’ corner meeting (8 June 2026)]]. It was also discussed to find a place where to discuss this in detail. Please mention that place here if that place is known. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:26, 13 June 2026 (UTC) ::::See also [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19#The or not the, this is (the?) question]]. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 11:39, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] Thanks for the links which you have just made here and also thanks to whoever is involved in covering the question in the status update. I don't think that the status update talk page is used for such comments, is it? Until there is another suggestion, I don't know a better place to discuss than here, and so I will carry on here. :::::I am guilty of not getting around to commenting on the status update discussion - there is always more that I want to say before publishing. Now I will try to keep my edits small. :::::My view was that a lexeme would be necessary almost for every item in every language, but in the meeting it was argued that often syntactic information could be found through programmatic "rules of thumb", and that in that way, lexemes would be needed only in cases of irregularity. Note that it is still necessary to search for the lexeme properties in every case; the programmatic rules would only apply if the lexeme property is missing. :::::My main comment now is that a programmatic approach is too complicated for doing everything by composition and so we urgently need to be able to call functions from Python/Javascript. I hope that that will come soon. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:28, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :At the volunteers' meeting it was even suggested that grammatical genders could be determined programmatically sometimes. For instance in Spanish most rivers are masculine and in French trees are generally masculine. This type of rule depends on having a rigorous system to determine the type of item. Example: I believe that an oak tree is {{Q|Q12004}}. For some reason the label for English is "Quercus" (whereas other languages use the common name) - this highlights a problem with using item labels. Q12004 has subclass {{Q|Q148993}}, which has subclass {{Q|Q10884}}, so it is possible to determine that it is a tree, but surely this is too complicated to be worthwhile. Perhaps there are languages where the type of item gives a sort of gender, but I think they would need a property "linguistic item type" rather than trying to maintain the information in the existing item properties. :Sometimes the form of the word indicates the gender, for instance in Spanish words ending in -a are often feminine. But there are many exceptions (el optimista, el tema), for which lexemes would be needed, I suppose. If there are very few exceptions, they could be listed explicitly. :In the case of French, Spanish and German genders, I think that the simplicity of just putting the gender on the lexeme outweighs the possible savings in quantity of data through using "rules of thumb". [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:54, 19 June 2026 (UTC) ::As mentioned in the Status Update, it is difficult to decide how to determine whether an item needs a definite article in the simple examples. ::I have a comment: it is strange that we want to leave out the article in the label and the lemma. In normal use, I think the article is only left out in "headline-speak" (for instance "Man falls from Eiffel Tower") or if you are talking to the thing ("Eiffel Tower, I love you"). I don't know where else we want to omit the article in actual text. ::So one proposal for a solution is that the lemma on the lexeme should include the article in these cases. It should be defined as the string which should be the value of ''x'' in the sentence: "''x'' is a thing". That might solve the problem, but we would always need to have a lexeme in these cases and it would be necessary to explain this to all lexeme users. A second proposal is to have a new property on the lexeme which gives the string which we need (or to have an indicator that an article is required, but that would be more complicated as code would be needed to render the article). ::Another possibility, supported in the meeting, would be somehow to work out from the construction of the name whether an article is needed. For instance if the name is constructed as a phrase, it often wants an article ("the Bridge of Sighs", "the Isle of Man"). In English a phrase with "of" is a good indication that the article is needed. Phrases of the form <qualifier> <noun> often want an article (for instance "Eiffel tower", "Irish Sea", "United States"), but they often don't (for example "Beachy Head", "Lake Ontario", "London Bridge", "Westminster Cathedral", "Fair Isle", "Land's End"). So that is no use if we don't know what type of qualifier and noun it is. ::There are rules for specific types of item (for instance in English, I think lakes don't need an article and seas do need an article). If we are going to use rules like that, it will be necessary to maintain the correct categorization in Wikidata. P31 and P279 might be relevant, but since these properties were created in another context, the management of them would be difficult. Lists of exceptions are possible. The solution could vary from one language to another. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 16:26, 19 June 2026 (UTC) :I would like to suggest the following possibilities for holding the definite article requirement information and also other syntactical information such as genders and other language options. They are in order from "more data-driven" to "more programmatic". #Hold the information as a property of a lexeme attached to the item. #Hold the information in the label or description of the item. #Hold the information in a list (per language) in a property of the item. #Use a programmatic rule, based possibly on item properties, with a list of exceptions. The exceptions could be: #*in the lexemes (or the labels/descriptions), #*in Wikidata item properties per language, perhaps using the "tabular data" type, #*as a Wikifunctions list item, similar to the configuration tables used in the fragment examples, or #*hard-coded in the Abstract Wikipedia wikifunctions. :For instance in order to find a French gender, the programmatic rule could be "Assume it is masculine", but exceptions could be flagged in the lexemes. In all cases, the function would have to search for a lexeme for the item, and if found would have to search for a gender property with value "feminine". The advantage of the programmatic rule would be that for a masculine lexeme no gender property, and perhaps no lexeme, would be needed. :From a theoretical modelling point of view, I think that much the best place to put this information is in the lexeme objects. Well, the item label and description are also per language, but I think they do not "belong" to Abstract Wikipedia. In the meeting there was much more sympathy for a programmatic approach, which I would say is more pragmatic. There is a balance between on one hand trying to reduce the number of database elements and properties, and on the other reducing the complexity of the programming and the rules which have to be known by users. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #252 is out: Improved loading and display of Test results == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-12|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you an improvement in loading and display of Test results, we talk about our next events, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that Denny will lead a discussion on the [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15#News in Types: way forward for natural language generation types|new NLG types]] in the next '''Natural Language Generation Special Interest Group meeting''', that will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1781625600 June 16, at 16:00 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xzn-kqer-mah link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:29, 12 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30606821 --> == Add Z32962 to the list of suggested functions? == I think Z32962 would be a useful addition to the list of suggested functions. Can an admin please add it if others agree? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:25, 15 June 2026 (UTC) : Please comment on [[MediaWiki talk:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:48, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Native labels == English Wikipedia usually displays native labels whenever applicable. Should we modify Z28016 to do the same or make a new function? [[User:Redmin|Redmin]] ([[User talk:Redmin|talk]]) 04:39, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == readiness indicator == It occurred to me that an abstract page that works well enough for one language output might be broken for another, so it would be good to have some sort of indicator in the UI of which languages might be ready for transwiki and which still need preliminaries. I'm not sure if it would be better to do this as part of the testing and error-handling, or manually (like patrolling versions, but language-specific). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 07:12, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :: The function [[f:Z35921|NLG default text]] will be able to indicate on the target Wikipedia that the text in this language is not ready yet. Maybe sentences with this indicator, or even lemma's with this indicator could be excluded from the target Wikipedia. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:52, 15 June 2026 (UTC) :::I see that in the [[#Marking NLG Default text]] section, but I am thinking more at the whole-article level; dropping a problematic fragment from the final render could change the overall meaning. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:20, 15 June 2026 (UTC) == Add an LLM generator, where you can generate the schema == Hi. Please add an LLM generator, where you can ask AI to generate a schema for Abstract wikipedia. [[User:ChippyTimeCom|ChippyTimeCom]] ([[User talk:ChippyTimeCom|talk]]) 01:18, 17 June 2026 (UTC) :Do you mean an AI model to translate natural language input to abstract output? This was tinkered with before, I believe, last year—see [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2025-05-09]] if you would like to read about it. This idea remained a mockup and not much more from what I can tell, but they may revisit the idea someday. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:40, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :: The main thing stoping one from pulling up a chatbot is that it has no knowledge of what wikifunctions are available, meaning it will probably just hallucinate them. I know Gemini has an ability to upload files, but all of Wikifunctions would be too large. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:58, 18 June 2026 (UTC) :::We have no obligation to use an LLM, that's just the main thing associated with the buzzword that is AI now. We can really come up with any AI model—''in a general sense''—that will fit our needs. You can do a ''lot'' with simple neural networks. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:33, 18 June 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #253 is out: The or not the, this is (the?) question == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-19|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you a delicate question regarding grammatical framework, we talk about our next events and about the results of our latest online meetings, we discuss news about Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:34, 19 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30701693 --> == This needs to be fixed == On tennis [[Q847]], it says "Tennis is the country of origin of England." [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-36465-63|&#126;2026-36465-63]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-36465-63|talk]]) 07:31, 23 June 2026 (UTC) :Thanks, I've switched it around. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 09:51, 23 June 2026 (UTC) == HTML, monolingual text or String for fragments == I think there is an important issue on the Output type of parts for text segments. Currently some sentences produce String output (like [[f:Z26039]] ) or monolingual text output ( like [[:f:Z26570]] ) pr HTML output ( like [[f:Z36200]] ). Apart from not being consistent I think there is even a bigger issue: these types don't allow text to be set in bold (in the introduction sentence for instance), or wikilinks to other AW articles. Am I correct that is only allowed in HTML text? If so I think we should change ALL languages functions to output type HTML as soon as possible. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:51, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :Currently, I am exploring this function for converting all of these to HTML fragment [[f:Z36303]]. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 16:46, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:17, 24 June 2026 (UTC) :I agree that new sentence functions should be HTML. For now the old ones should be wrapped by a converter (which is best done on WF). Then all calls from AW can be to HTML producing functions. When we need bold we could either try to inject it, or write equivalent functions that will eventually replace the usage of the string ones. The string ones may still be valuable for processing some of the new NLG types, so we shouldn't actually flip the original functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:30, 24 June 2026 (UTC) ::I think wrapping the functions to HTML is delaying the solution. We either need to flip all (NLG) functions or all functions should be copied to HTML versions (and the all functions shoule not be used therafter) ::{| class=wikitable ! Option !! Pro !! Con |- | A. Wrap all fuctions to HTML || Easy to perform || This is delaying the solution |- | B. Flip all functions to HTML || Keeps tracebility || Huge impact/disturbance, especialy when cached |- | C. Copy all functions to HTML || No disturbance || Looses tracability |} :: The most practical soulution would be option C. I woluld perfer that as soon as possbile. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::I like your suggestions. Based on my personal experience with different result types from Wikifunctions, I would suggest that AW support all three and convert the results to HTML using built-in functions. [[User:Jsamwrites|John Samuel]] ([[User:Jsamwrites|talk]]) 05:19, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::The reason why function need to change is because the current string functions don't allow HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. AW supporting all 3 type pf output could easily be avoiding by option A. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 05:29, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::C is fine by me. The easiest first-implementation of a copied function C is a wrapper of the monolingual/string, so A is sort of the first step of C. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:20, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::OK, good suggestion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:13, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :No. I really don't see why we should. These are functions that generate text fragments in a single language—the monolingual text type is the most appropriate return type for them. It is just text. They can be coerced to HTML extremely easily and doing that step ahead of time, hardcoded, for the sole purpose of making abstract articles ''marginally'' easier to write, is just not worth the effort and foregoes what makes the functions' return types suitable in the first place. If there is some argument that can be made for hard pivoting to HTML fragments then I am all ears, but I really don't see a reason for it. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:53, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::I like to contradict. These functions create complete sentences, nd those should be able to use HLTM features like bold text, wikilinks etc. My current interest is to add HTML texts like <nowiki><span lang="mul ">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 06:05, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::These additional features (bold/links etc) would benefit from additional parameters to control them. I still don't know how to do this best. I tried once at [[:f:Z32496]] and [[:f:Z32410]], but it may not be right, and may not be a complete solution anyway. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:26, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::A newer idea I had is to add all the links in the language-configured function, then call link-removing functions like [[:f:Z36853]] or [[:f:Z36831]] when composing them into AW. This could extend to swapping links for bold. Instead of an initial link, the QIDs could be wrapped with HTML spans with a QID ID, which could then be selectively converted into links or bolded etc. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::Simple wrapping is just to benefit the AW editor. IMO it's worth it because it's pretty easy to make a new function, so is very low cost, and for the new editors on AW, they don't have to understand composing or our WF Types. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:30, 25 June 2026 (UTC) :::OK, let's start with option A, as a first step for option C. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 07:16, 25 June 2026 (UTC) ::::I have made wrappers (option A) for some general functions like [[f:Z36983]], [[f:Z36983]]. [[f:Z36987]], [[f:Z36993]] and [[f:Z37011]]. [[f:Z32965]] already existed, but as well as the monolingual [[f:Z26095]] both have an error: Error in evaluation. Can somebody fix this? On the AW articles I have updated a few lemmas by replacing the old functions to HTML functions, but find this quite cumbersome. A few hundred lemmas should be updated, but I have no time and/or no desire to do so. In the coming weeks (or so) I will start on Option C for these functions. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 17:51, 27 June 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks. I'll try to help replace some of the usage. [[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:12, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::::I think I've sorted out [[:f:Z32965]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 07:45, 29 June 2026 (UTC) :::So a bunch of bespoke functions on Wikifunctions that offer some marginal improvement over their more generalized counterparts, and we expect to do all of our language generation functions ''this way'' now or something, god forbid we expend ''one'' extra function call to just wrap the output if an injection function is really that scary to you. Wrapping the functions to HTML is not 「delaying the solution」 more than it's just the least disruptive way to approach this completely frivolous problem. Are we to write all of our NLG functions to output HTML now? That is what makes sense for us now, in the future? What? We have a type for this, it's called Monolingual text. We have Python and JavaScript at our disposal, and they are wicked biznasty at string manipulation (i.e. they are very good at it), so injecting formatting into a larger sentence instead of porting the whole thing over to use HTML exclusively is really not that big of an ask. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:23, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::::Then please try to have [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z37011?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z37011%22%2C%22Z37011K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q90%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q5119%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K3%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q142%22%7D%2C%22Z37011K4%22%3A%22Z1216%22%7D this] error in HTML. Currently it is ❌≪Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .≫❌ Please have it changed to <span style="color:magenta;">Parys (is the) haadstêd (of) Frankryk .</span> [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 09:02, 7 July 2026 (UTC) :::::Thinking about this. One way we could do this particular markup would be for default monolingual functions to return a result with special language code (perhaps mul, zxx, ...). This would require wider discussion. Then the HTML function could detect that and wrap accordingly. But it doesn't solve the general problem of injections IMO. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:13, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::This is now working (using [mul]) at [[:f:Z37462]]. This should work for all monolingual base functions, but not for those starting with strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:49, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::I updated [[f:Z36911]] and [[f:Z36909]]. I am not sure if this works as a lot is cached. The string version will probably not work yet, so I left that one using ❌≪ ≫❌. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:09, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::::::After my post I actually made that function and test even more complicated to include a call to action (CTA): a link to the function that is not configured in the requested language. I am starting to like where this is going, and think I can even get it done with strings by recognising your ❌≪ pattern, stripping it, and replacing it with a span (and a CTA link) when it turns to HTML. Unfortunately the linking requires passing in a ZID, so might need a new general conversion function with an extra parameter. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 08:40, 9 July 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I did with a string function: [[:f:Z37497]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 11:31, 9 July 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, injections are not so easy. A simple one is trying to inject a link to Sydney into en:"Sydney Harbour Bridge is the closest to the ocean in Sydney." (In all languages, so sometimes the subject-object order will be reversed.) But even still, I'd really like to have good injection functions, so if you're up for making them, I'll definitely use them. If they work reliably on all NLG monolingual strings, then we can use them in the wrappers (even if you think the wrappers are frivolous), and the configurations can remain deeper on the monolingual strings. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 01:56, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :::::I've added this test at [[:f:Z37479]]. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 10:29, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #254: Working on Functions, together == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-06-26|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on new collaborative patterns emerging in our community, we discuss news in Types, we share some events that relate to Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:58, 27 June 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30724999 --> == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #255: Integration on test wiki and annual plan == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-01|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss integration of Abstract Wikipedia in Test Wiki and our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1783359000 July 6, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 08:22, 2 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Response to English Wikipedia criticism == Hi all, you might be aware of [[:w:en:Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#Abstract Wikipedia goes somewhat live and already hosts unattributed enwiki copies...|this discussion on English Wikipedia]], that raised several criticisms about the project. As a team, we [[Abstract Wikipedia:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|drafted an initial response]], that we want to run through you. If you want to suggest changes or edits, please [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Response to English Wikipedia criticism|use the talk page]]. Please, keep a polite and constructive tone. The editing period will be '''open until July 17'''. The final result of this editing will be published on Meta, and will be linked to the English Wikipedia community. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:18, 6 July 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #256: Moving toward our first Abstract Wikipedia integration milestone == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-07-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss further our objectives for the new Wikimedia Foundation Fiscal Year, we show the latest community tool, we remind you of the Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia events at Wikimania 2026, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:43, 9 July 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30755600 --> == Infoboxes == I changed layout of the infoboxes, to be more in line with Wikipedia's infoboxes. See for example [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] "infobox for city" used in [[Q90]] "Paris". I would like [[f:Z37625|Z37625]] "infobox row" to check if a claim exists in Wikidata, but I have difficulties with he parameters for [[f:Z27299|Z27299]] "Wikidata item has claim?". With with literal input it works but with argument references it gives an error. Who can fix this?<br> Furthermore I think it would be nice it we could add a pen-icon next to the values to be able to edit the claim on Wikidata, and pen-icon at the property to edit the label. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:04, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :I was able to fix my error. Infobox rows will now only be shown when a claim exists. That will prevent errors a particular claim is missing for a particular city. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 13:56, 13 July 2026 (UTC) ::Looks awesome. Though I was trying it with other cities (such as Chicago and Moscow) in English, and it was throwing orchestrator rate limit errors. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 02:41, 14 July 2026 (UTC) == Lexemes of property names == {{ping|HenkvD|feeglgeef|GrounderUK}} Hello. Please could anybody tell me their opinion on this question? It may be necessary to find a lexeme corresponding to the name of a property. For instance, [[f:Z28445|Z28445]] "most recent year-specific sentence about item" has a property reference as argument and needs the name of the property to be rendered in the output; the particular property could be {{Q|P1082}}. In the English implementation, the name of the property "population" is found from the WikiData property attributes, but for other languages other syntactical information such as gender may be needed, so I suppose that a link to the lexeme is required. How should the rendering function find a link to the lexeme? Is there a way to find the item corresponding to the property? Or should the syntactical information be found some other way? [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:14, 12 July 2026 (UTC) :Ah. Now I've found {{Q|P1629}}, so i suppose that that provides a solution. Sorry to disturb you. [[User:Strobilomyces|Strobilomyces]] ([[User talk:Strobilomyces|talk]]) 15:44, 12 July 2026 (UTC) == Feedback needed on constructing a new abstract article == Hi all, I wanted to ask a couple of questions to the community regarding how easy or difficult is to construct a new abstract article. Consider I'm a newbie that wants to create a new abstract article about my home city. What would you suggest I do first? Is there a sufficiently good example I can copy and adapt? Can I add already almost everything that I would like to add (say, number of inhabitants, region where my city is, mayor of the city, stuff like that) or is there something I ''cannot'' add still? What is there and what is missing at the moment? Thanks in advance for your answers! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:51, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :Sannita, in general it is very difficult (even for me) to construct a new abstract article from scratch. Copying from an existing article is easier, as also mentioned in [[Help:How to create an article]]. That example is also a city, so we better make that article a good example. The information you mention could be in the infobox, which is also available to use and extend (if performance permits). Creating a article by copy/paste should be done for each sentence or paragraph. Add additional sentences is still very difficult. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:08, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :The biggest challenge for me would be finding the right functions to do the job. It's kinda to the point where the help article, mentioned by HenkvD, is just saying to copy other articles. The issue is with trying to add more "unique" sentence structures that may not be in every article. For example, take this: :<code>New York is known for being the financial hub for the United States</code> :More abstractly: <code>X is known for being Y for the Z</code> :If a function that does something like that doesn't exist, that pushes the user into a weird space where they may have to use a different function that may sound more robotic or be grammatically incorrect. :It's not hard to create a stub abstract article, but anything beyond that takes a lot of time and effort to find the right functions for the job. Additionally, dealing with different data types (ex: Wikidata item reference vs Wikidata item) may turn off people who aren't familiar with computer science principles. 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text/x-wiki [[File:Snark Bellman.jpg|frameless|center]] ---- <div style="font-family: serif; font-size: x-large;"> <div lang="he" dir="rtl"> <poem> מִקָּצֶה לְקָצֶה זֶה תָּמִיד מִתְמַצֶּה בְּאוֹתָהּ נְקֻדָּה, הַכְּתָמִים מֻפְשָׁטִים, הַלֵּילוֹת מִתְקַצְּרִים לְקַו לָבָן. בֵּין רַקָּה לָרַקָּה נְקָמָה מְתוּקָה, מְנוֹעִים שְׁקֵטִים, [[Special:AllPages|רַכָּבוֹת שֶׁל מִלִּים]] חוֹלְפוֹת כְּמוֹ צְלָלִים מֵעָלַי. </poem> <div style="text-align: left; font-size: medium;"> ''אסף אמדורסקי, יהלי סובול, סיון שביט'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> As a theoretical physicist, Dirac didn’t need a lab to do his work; all he needed was a pencil, because his most finely calibrated instrument was his mind’s eye. When he was young, a teacher told him that she felt he was cogitating not in words but in “another medium of forms and figures.” He once described his own thoughts as essentially “geometrical.” <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Steve Silberman'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="fr" dir="ltr"> Lorsqu’il aborda la planète il salua respectueusement l’allumeur&thinsp;: «&thinsp;Bonjour. Pourquoi viens-tu d’éteindre ton réverbère&thinsp;? — C’est la consigne, répondit l’allumeur. Bonjour. — Qu’est-ce que la consigne&thinsp;? — C’est d’éteindre mon réverbère. Bonsoir.&thinsp;» Et il le ralluma. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Antoine de Saint-Exupéry'' </div> </div> ---- Only when Professor Duby reminded us that penguins are birds, that they do not swim but ''fly in water'', only then could the therolinguist begin to approach the sea literature of the penguin with understanding; only then could the miles of recordings already on film be restudied and, finally, appreciated. But the difficulty of translation is still with us. A satisfying degree of promise has already been made in Adélie. The difficulties of recording a group kinetic performance in a stormy ocean as thick as pea soup with plankton at a temperature of 31°&nbsp;Fahrenheit are considerable; but the perseverance of the Ross Ice Barrier Literary Circle has been fully rewarded with such passages as “Under the Iceberg,” from the ''Autumn Song''—a passage now world famous in the rendition by Anna Serebryakova of the Leningrad Ballet. No verbal rendering can approach the felicity of Miss Serebryakova’s version. For, quite simply, there is no way to reproduce in writing the all-important ''multiplicity'' of the original text, so beautifully rendered by the full chorus of the Leningrad Ballet company. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Ursula&nbsp;K.&nbsp;Le&nbsp;Guin'' </div> ---- <div lang="sv" dir="ltr"> Vem har du med dig? frågade mumintrollet. Det är Ninni, sa Tooticki. Ungen heter Ninni. Hon höll fortfarande upp dörren och väntade. Ingen kom. Nåja, sa Tooticki och ryckte på axlarna. Hon kan ju hålla sig där ute om hon är blyg. Men blir hon inte våt, frågade mumintrollets mamma. Jag vet inte om det gör så mycket när man är osynlig, svarade Tooticki och kom fram och satte sig. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Tove Jansson'' </div> </div> ---- — What is this that this is that this thing there? — Sorry, what is this that you have said? — That thing there, what is this that this is? — Oh, dad’s beard? — No, the other thing. — You want to say a bald mouse? — No, not that. — Maybe a washing rat? — No... in the sky! — Oh yeah, of course. It’s a flying deer.<!-- — A-tchoo! — To your wishes! — A-tchoo! — To your loved ones! — A-tchoo! — And may they last forever!--> — I call myself Roya, and you? — I call myself Alex, enchanted. — Enchanted, and what age have you? — Me I’m born in one thousand nine hundred four twenty ten eight and I have twenty-seven years, and you? — Me I’m born in thousand nine hundred four twenty fourteen, so I have thirty-one years.<!-- — Oh the cow! — Yeah, that is cowly owl that! — I love you my cabbage! — I love you strong, my fleas. — You miss us a lot. — You miss me too. --> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NaXZVAycV54 ''@atfrenchies, @royaventurera''] </div> ---- <div lang="da" dir="ltr"> Så gik kejseren i processionen under den dejlige tronhimmel og alle mennesker på gaden og i vinduerne sagde: »Gud hvor kejserens nye klæder er mageløse! hvilket dejligt slæb han har på kjolen! hvor den sidder velsignet!« Ingen ville lade sig mærke med, at han intet så, for så havde han jo ikke duet i sit embede, eller været meget dum. Ingen af kejserens klæder havde gjort sådan lykke. »Men han har jo ikke noget på,« sagde et lille barn. »Herregud, hør den uskyldiges røst,« sagde faderen; og den ene hviskede til den anden, hvad barnet sagde. »Men han har jo ikke noget på,« råbte til sidst hele folket. Det krøb i kejseren, thi han syntes, de havde ret, men han tænkte som så: »Nu må jeg holde processionen ud.« Og kammerherrerne gik og bar på slæbet, som der slet ikke var. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Hans Christian Andersen'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> <poem> Where it had been left hundreds of years ago, Extract from the depth, is but a setting sun, Paradise is scarce in this light that won’t shine, What is our earthly task, but a worthy design? Some held it in sight, scattered it may have been, They’re ready to fight in a priceless inkling, The request is here, ready to resurrect, What else can we do but recover the project? </poem> <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Lætitia Sadier'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="ru" dir="ltr"> Вообще, Юрий Михайлович, он мне говорил: «Это скоро кончится». Он был единственный человек, который так говорил. Я говорю: «Юрий Михайлович, почему скоро кончится?» Он говорит: «Ну потому что это так никогда не было, это искусственная конструкция». Подумаешь, ответ! Никогда не было, теперь стало. Так оно и будет. «Да нет! Посмотри́те, всё кончится». <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''[https://arzamas.academy/special/lotman/1 Борис Успенский]'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> Alice had been looking over his shoulder with some curiosity. “What a funny watch!” she remarked. “It tells the day of the month, and doesn’t tell what o’clock it is!” “Why should it?” muttered the Hatter. “Does ''your'' watch tell you what year it is?” “Of course not,” Alice replied very readily: “but that’s because it stays the same year for such a long time together.” “Which is just the case with ''mine'',” said the Hatter. Alice felt dreadfully puzzled. The Hatter’s remark seemed to her to have no sort of meaning in it, and yet it was certainly English. “I don’t quite understand you,” she said, as politely as she could. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Lewis Carroll'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="es" dir="ltr"> —¡Válame Dios —dijo don Quijote—, y qué vida nos hemos de dar, Sancho amigo! ¡Qué de churumbelas han de llegar a nuestros oídos, qué de gaitas zamoranas, qué de tamborines y qué de sonajas y qué de rabeles! Pues ¡qué si destas diferencias de músicas resuena la de los albogues! Allí se verá casi todos los instrumentos pastorales. —¿Qué son albogues —preguntó Sancho—, que ni los he oído nombrar, ni los he visto en toda mi vida? —Albogues son —respondió don Quijote— unas chapas a modo de candeleros de azófar, que dando una con otra por lo vacío y hueco hace un son, que, si no muy agradable ni armónico, no descontenta y viene bien con la rusticidad de la gaita y del tamborín. Y este nombre ''albogues'' es morisco, como lo son todos aquellos que en nuestra lengua castellana comienzan en ''al'', conviene a saber: ''almohaza'', ''almorzar'', ''alhombra'', ''alguacil'', ''alhucema'', ''almacén'', ''alcancía'' y otros semejantes, que deben ser pocos más; y solos tres tiene nuestra lengua que son moriscos y acaban en ''í'', y son ''borceguí'', ''zaquizamí'' y ''maravedí''; ''alhelí'' y ''alfaquí'', tanto por el ''al'' primero como por el ''í'' en que acaban, son conocidos por arábigos. Esto te he dicho de paso, por habérmelo reducido a la memoria la ocasión de haber nombrado albogues; y hanos de ayudar mucho al parecer en perfeción este ejercicio el ser yo algún tanto poeta, como tú sabes, y el serlo también en estremo el bachiller Sansón Carrasco. Del cura no digo nada, pero yo apostaré que debe de tener sus puntas y collares de poeta; y que las tenga también maese Nicolás, no dudo en ello, porque todos o los más son guitarristas y copleros. Yo me quejaré de ausencia; tú te alabarás de firme enamorado; el pastor Carrascón, de desdeñado; y el cura Curiambro, de lo que él más puede servirse, y, así, andará la cosa, que no haya más que desear. <div style="text-align: right; font-size: medium;"> ''Miguel de Cervantes'' </div> </div> ---- <div lang="en-gb" dir="ltr"> You can imagine Piglet’s joy when at last the ship came in sight of him. In after-years he liked to think that he had been in Very Great Danger during the Terrible Flood, but the only danger he had really been in was in the last half-hour of his imprisonment, when Owl, who had just flown up, sat on a branch of his tree to comfort him, and told him a very long story about an aunt who had once laid a seagull’s egg by mistake, and the story went on and on, rather like this sentence, until Piglet who was listening out of his window without much hope, went to sleep quietly and naturally, slipping slowly out of the window towards the water until he was only hanging on by his toes, at which moment luckily, a sudden loud squawk from Owl, which was really part of the story, being what his aunt said, woke the Piglet up and just gave him time to jerk himself back into safety and say, “How interesting, and did she?” when—well, you can imagine his joy when at last he saw the good ship, ''The Brain of Pooh'' (''Captain'', C.&nbsp;Robin; ''1st Mate'', P.&nbsp;Bear) coming over the sea to rescue him. Christopher Robin and Pooh again.&nbsp;.&nbsp;.&nbsp;. 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| <div class="plainlinks">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;'''Gebruiker:HenkvD''' op [[commons:Template talk:Sisterlinks|zusterprojecten]]</div> |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikipedia-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikipedia<br>[[:de:Benutzer:HenkvD|de:]] [[:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] [[:fr:Utilisateur:HenkvD|fr:]] '''[[:nl:User:HenkvD|nl:]]''' | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wiktionary-logo-en.png|17px]]<br>Wiktionary<br>[[:wikt:en:User:HenkvD|en:]]<br />[http://www.omegawiki.org/index.php/User:HenkvD ΩWiki] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikinews-logo.png|35px]]<br>Wikinews<br>[[wikinews:User:HenkvD|en:]] [[:n:nl:User:HenkvD|nl:]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:HenkvD nl: in incubator]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikiquote-logo.png|16px]]<br>Wikiquote<br>[[:q:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikibooks-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikibooks<br>[[:b:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikisource-logo.png|18px]]<br>Wikisource<br>[[:s:en:User:HenkvD|en:]] '''[[:s:nl:Gebruiker:HenkvD|nl:]]''' <div class="plainlinks">[http://wikisource.org/wiki/User:HenkvD old]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikiversity-logo-en.svg|18px]]<br>Wikiversity<br>[[:de:v:User:HenkvD|de:]] [[:en:v:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikimedia-logo.png|18px]]<br>[[:meta:User:HenkvD|Meta]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:HenkvD Strategy]<br><div class="plainlinks">'''[http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:HenkvD nl:]'''</div></div> |- | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-icon.svg|16px]]<br>Wikivoyage<br>[[:en:voy:User:HenkvD|en:]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[File:Wikidata-logo.svg|19px|Wikidata]]<br><div class="plainlinks">[http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:HenkvD Wikidata]</div> | valign="top" align="center" | [[Image:Commons-logo.svg|14px]]<br>[[:Commons:User:HenkvD|Commons]] | valign="top" align="center" | [[File:Wikifunctions-logo.svg|14px]] [[File:Abstract-Wikipedia-wordmark.svg|42px]]<br>[[f:User:HenkvD|Wikifunctions]] <br>'''AbstractWiki''' |} My name is Henk, from [[Q55|the Netherlands]] ([[:nl:Gebruiker:HenkvD]]). I am interested in Abstract Wikipedia functionality and have general knowledge of the Dutch language (as native speaker). As most other Dutch persons I have good knowledge of English and some of German and a bit of French and Romance languages.<br> I have an IT background, and try to understand the programming in Wikifunctions.<br> I will try to analyse Wikifunction, Wikidata, lexemes and add Wikifunction tests if needed. In my opinion the initial goal is to have Abstract Wikipedia pages with simple lead section (like stubs), an infobox fully from Wikidata, one or more images and maybe some simple lists. The simple lead sentences should function for as many languages as possible. That will also need that many languages will have labels in Wikidata and lexemes with genders. That will be a difficult enough to achieve. In my opinion extensive prose will be very hard to achieve. <br clear=all> {{#babel:nl|en-3|de-2|fr-1}} ===Overview of NLG functions I work(ed) upon=== {| class="wikitable" ! ZID !! Example !! English !! Dutch || Other simple languages || Default |- | [[f:Z36625|Z36625]] third-person singular form of to be (simple) || || is || is || [[f:Z36627|f:]] en nl fy af bar bs eo frr is hsb mk nds os pap sr +fi +cs hr id zea || (is) |- | [[f:Z36622|Z36622]] indefinite article (simple) || || N/A || een || [[f:Z36624|f:]] nl af fy bar bs eo frr is hsb mk nds os pap sr +fi +cs hr id zea || (a) |- | [[f:Z36610|Z36610]] definite article (simple) || || the || N/A || [[f:Z36620|f:]] en af eo pap +fi +cs hr id || (the) |- | [[f:Z37311|Z37311]] String<br>and (indicating last entry of list) Simple || || and || en || 40 simple languages || (and) |- | [[f:Z32962|Z32962]] HTML [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] String<br>A is a B. || [[Q8739]] || Paris is a city. || Parijs is een stad || [[f:Z35523|f:]] af bar bs eo frr fy hsb is mk nds os pap sr +fi +zea || Y Magenta 🔧 |- | [[f:Z32965|Z32965]] HTML [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] Monlingual<br>an A is a B. || [[Q2102]] || A frog is an amphibian. || een hond is een dier || [[f:Z36875|f:]] af bar bs eo frr fy hsb is (nds) mk nl os pap sr +fi +id zea || Y Magenta 🔧 with ❌ |- | [[f:Z36983|Z36983]] HTML [[f:Z26570|Z26570]] String<br>A is a B in C. || [[Q55]] || Netherlands is a country in Europe || Nederland is een land in Europa. || [[f:Z35618|f:]] af bar eo frr fy mk pap +hr zea || Y magenta 🔧 |- | [[f:Z36987|Z36987]] HTML [[f:Z32581|Z32581]] Monolingual<br>A is a B by C. || [[Q12418]] || Mona Lisa is a painting by Leonardo da Vinci. || Mona Lisa is een schilderij van Leonardo da Vinci. || [[f:Z36168|f:]] af eo fy is mk os pap +cs hr id zea || Y Magenta 🔧 with ❌ |- | [[f:Z36993|Z36993]] HTML [[f:Z32982|Z32982]] Monlingual<br>A is a B of C. || [[Q718]] || Chess is a game of strategy. || Schaken is een spel van strategie. || [[f:Z36528|f:]] af eo fy mk nl pap +cs hr id zea || Y Magenta 🔧 with ❌ |- | [[f:Z37011|Z37011]] HTML [[f:Z28016|Z28016]] Monolingual<br>A is the B of C. || [[Q90]] || Paris is the capital of France. || Parijs is de hoofdstad van Frankrijk<br>❗Lexemes needed for nouns || [[f:Z36339|f:]] af eo mk pap +hr zea || Y Magenta 🔧 with ❌ |- | [[f:Z34282|Z34282]] A is a B. (automatic based on Wikidata class) || [[Q13924]] || Adriatic Sea is a sea || Adriatische Zee is een zee. || WIP Wrapper || N |- | [[f:Z34637|Z34637]] A is part of the B. (automatic based on Wikidata class) || [[Q13924]] || Adriatic Sea is part of the Mediterranean Sea. || || || Y |- | [[f:Z27243|Z27243]] Monolingual<br>Superlative A is the B-est C in D || [[Q319]] || Jupiter is the largest planet in the Solar System. || [[f:Z37022|f:]] Jupiter is de grootste planeet van het zonnestelsel.<br>❗Lexemes needed for nouns || [[f:Z37033|:f:]] eo || Y ⤒ large { planet ∩ Solar System } = Jupiter. |- | [[f:Z29591|Z29591]] Monolingual<br>entity with adjective / class || [[Q177749]] || Jupiter is a big planet || || || Y A ∈ { B ∩ C. }. |- | [[f:Z37005|Z37005]] Monolingual<br>A has parts (automatic based on Wikidata) || [[Q211391]] || Weekend consists of Saturday and Sunday. || Weekeinde bestaat uit zaterdag en zondag. || [[f:Z37328|f:]] 25 languages || Y |- | [[f:Z37289|Z37289]] Monolingual<br>join list of monolingual texts without Oxford comma || || A, B and C || A, B en C || 40 languages || Y |- | || [[Q11750]] || list of sovereign states || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z35167|Z35167]] Infobox person (1) || || OK || [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z35167?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z35167%22%2C%22Z35167K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z6821%22%2C%22Z6821K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q154946%22%7D%7D%2C%22Z35167K2%22%3A%22Z1157%22%7D OK] || OK (some labels needed, via P1629) || N/A |- | [[F:Z37709|Z37709]] Infobox for person (new layout) || || || || Infobox with rows for dates are not working yet || N/A |- | [[f:Z36678|Z36678]] infobox for city || [[Q90]] || Country France || Land Frankrijk || added subfunction To do: check claim || N/A |- | [[f:Z37623|Z37623]] Infobox row || [[Q90]] || Country France || Land Frankrijk || Values for dates are not working yet || N/A |- | [[f:Z37640|Z37640]] if (HTML output) || || || OK || || N/A |- | [[f:Z37644|Z37644]] Infobox section || || || OK || || N/A |- | [[f:Z37647|Z37647]] infobox color scheme || || || OK || || N/A |- | [[f:infobox 1 image|infobox 1 image]] onfobox 1 image || || || Not possle yet? || || N/A |- | [[f:Z36218|Z36218]] specific property of subject is value from WD || [[Q922]]<br> [[Q408]] (load time might be long) || The area of Australia is 7,692,024 km². || De oppervlakte van Australië is 7692024 km²<br>❗Lexemes not yet available for nouns of almost all used properties || [[f:Z36684|f:]] af eo mk pap +cs hr id || Y oppervlakte(Australië) = 7692024 km². |- | [[f:Z35921|Z35921]] NLG default text (string) || || OK || || || N/A |- | [[f:Z36911|Z36911]] NLG default text (monolingual text) || || OK || || || language "mul" |- | [[f:Z36909|Z36909]] NLG default text (HTML) || || OK || || || span lang="mul" style="color: #FF00FF;" |- | [[f:Z37454|Z37454]] monolingual text as HTML with lang & colour span || [[Q1370]] || || || || language daz <span lang="mul" style="color: #FF00FF;">⤒ Q138758272 { Q28575 ∩ Virginia } = Q341915</span> |} Steps to get Abstract Wikipedia started: * Basic functions on Wikifunctions * Wikidata labels * Link Wikidata Q-items to Lexemes / gender of lexemes on Wikidata * Link Wikidata P-items via Q-items to Lexemes / gender of lexemes on Wikidata Natural Language * [[f:Wikifunctions:NLG functions|Wikifunctions:NLG functions]] * [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions|Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] Dutch language * [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Dutch|Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Dutch]] Wikidata queries * [https://query.wikidata.org/#%23%20Gender%20of%20City%20per%20langague%0ASELECT%20%3Fl%20%3Flemma%20%3Fsense%20%3Fgender%20%3FgenderLabel%20%28LANG%28%3Flemma%29%20AS%20%3Flanguage%29%0AWHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fsense%20wdt%3AP5137%20wd%3AQ515.%20%20%20%23%20City%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20ontolex%3Asense%20%3Fsense.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20wikibase%3Alemma%20%3Flemma.%20%20%20%23%20FILTER%28LANG%28%3Flemma%29%3D%22de%22%29%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%3Fl%20wdt%3AP5185%20%3Fgender.%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20SERVICE%20wikibase%3Alabel%20%7B%20bd%3AserviceParam%20wikibase%3Alanguage%20%22%5BAUTO_LANGUAGE%5D%2Cen%22.%20%7D%0A%7D Gender of City per langague ] {{AbstractTestLemma}} {| class="wikitable" ! Function !! English !! Z1157 Dutch !! Z60 Local language |- | <nowiki>{{#function:</nowiki>[[f:Z26039|Z26039]]<nowiki>|Q64|Q515|Z1002}}</nowiki> | {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z1002}} || {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z1157}} || {{#function:Z26039|Q64|Q515|Z60}} |} Testing different NLG Default texts : <span lang="mul" style="color: #FF00FF;">NLG Default text</span> : ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌ g6busqype5whofvfh2tk9hepnhx75hw 0 1119 12000 6372 2026-07-14T02:17:25Z EatingCarBatteries 1378 12000 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q1297", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36038", "Z36038K1": { "Z1K1": "Z310", "Z310K1": "M191923038" }, "Z36038K2": "" }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32163", "Z32163K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q515" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q108418" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q515" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q30" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q73917865" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q2285706" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q5119" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q108418" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } ] } } } 7wnjc2sf0wst7841aeno8i6tjt7c6u5 12001 12000 2026-07-14T02:18:22Z EatingCarBatteries 1378 12001 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q1297", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36038", "Z36038K1": { "Z1K1": "Z310", "Z310K1": "M191923038" }, "Z36038K2": "" }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33068", "Z33068K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q515" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q108418" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q515" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q30" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q73917865" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q2285706" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q5119" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q108418" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ], "Z33068K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } 494zc2rs2hp4elyeogdf8sy6c2aqunt 12004 12001 2026-07-14T02:30:57Z EatingCarBatteries 1378 12004 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q1297", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36038", "Z36038K1": { "Z1K1": "Z310", "Z310K1": "M191923038" }, "Z36038K2": "" }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33068", "Z33068K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q515" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q108418" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q515" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q30" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q73917865" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q2285706" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z28016", "Z28016K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z28016K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q5119" }, "Z28016K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q108418" }, "Z28016K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36193", "Z36193K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z36193K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ], "Z33068K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } 2tf4zzgf3pwemlc0l9fizowtk53v19x 0 1133 11980 4529 2026-07-13T18:13:15Z Autom 2038 Q6091500 does not contain enough information for sentence creation 11980 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q8474", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32123", "Z32123K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32234", "Z32234K1": [ "Z1", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26955", "Z26955K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q1097498" }, "Z26955K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26955K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q12560" }, "Z26955K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26955", "Z26955K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q66305721" }, "Z26955K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26955K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q193383" }, "Z26955K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } ] } } } n6bsiei52tn1cn2qjqp0b6cyhx5nveh 0 1191 11948 4526 2026-07-13T12:27:25Z Autom 2038 Q6091500 does not contain enough information for sentence creation 11948 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q7386", "sections": { 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This page applies to content in all languages, but be sure to check the local Wikipedia's style guide, as you should adhere to that as much as possible for outputted text. This manual may be relevant to content authors, function authors, or both. This manual is a target, apply common sense and be aware that technical limitations may make compliance impossible or unreasonable. == Summary == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/S}} We're writing... * an encyclopedia; * in all languages; * accessibly and aesthetically. == Section organization == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/SO}} Because articles are linked to Wikidata items and share the same Q-number, their titles are simply the labels on Wikidata. See the [[d:help:label#Labels in other languages|guidance]] there. An article's content should begin with an introductory lead section – a concise summary of the article – which is never divided into sections. The remainder of the article is typically divided into sections. Infoboxes, images, and other related content in the lead should be positioned on the side opposite the reader's starting point for that specific script (on the right for left-to-right languages like English, on the left for right-to-left languages like Arabic). For now, this is technically enforced by the software. == Section headings == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/SH}} All section headings should be their own fragment. Section headings should: * not redundantly refer back to the subject of the article, e.g., Early life, not Smith's early life or His early life * not refer to a higher-level heading, unless doing so is shorter or clearer * not be numbered or lettered as an outline * not use question format, e.g., Languages, not What languages are spoken? * not use color, unusual fonts, markup (such as bold or italics), images, citations, or footnotes, which cause accessibility issues. Section headings must be unique in all languages except in ones with exceptionally limited vocabulary (e.g. Toki Pona). == Quotations == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/Q}} Quotations should be used sparingly, as a quote can only be on one language, whereas an article in many. They should be used only when you would naturally use a foreign language quote. Consider paraphrasing quotations abstractly (while being aware that close paraphrasing can still violate copyright). == Media == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/M}} Only media directly pertinent to the subject matter of the article should be included; remember that Abstract Wikipedia articles often have a narrower topical scope than the corresponding articles at the natural language wikis, since they are tied to Wikidata concepts. == Links == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/LINK}} * '''Make links only where they are relevant and helpful in the context''': Excessive use of hyperlinks can be distracting and may slow the reader down. Redundant links clutter the page and make future maintenance harder. High-value links that are worth pursuing should stand out clearly. * '''Link to Abstract Wikipedia articles''': Do not link to articles on other Wikipedias, such as the English Wikipedia, unless in a section specifically for external links. Link to an Abstract Wikipedia article through its QID, displaying the title of the article or another relevant name in the display language. * '''Link a term at most once per major section''': Only include one link per term per major section (typically level 2), at its first occurrence. == Paragraphs == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/P}} Paragraphs should roughly cover one cohesive topic area. Each paragraph should be its own fragment, and all parts of the paragraph should be one fragment. In the interest of best serving the many languages that abstract content may be written in, write in chronological order, and include the most general statements first and continue to more detailed statements. === Paragraph tags === {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/PTAG}} Each paragraph should have a <code><nowiki><p></nowiki></code> tag for accesibility reasons. === Spaces between sentences === {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/SPACES}} Be mindful of the fact that Japanese and Chinese languages do not have spaces between sentences. As such, you should use functions like [[f:Z33068]] and [[f:Z35672]] to ensure that your content is accurate in these languages. == Functions == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/FUNC}} Only use NLG functions that are already implemented in multiple languages. New functions may be ill-defined, and might never be suitable for Abstract Wikipedia. Only use functions in the literal sense of their scope. Do not use them for metaphors or abstract concepts. Just because the output in English (or any one language) is correct does not make a use acceptable. For example, only use [[f:Z26570]] for physical locations, and not for metaphorical ones. Do not use a sequence of functions that only generate a part of a sentence, since different languages structure their sentences in a very different way. == Monolingual content == {{Shortcut|Abstract:MOS/MONO}} Monolingual content (content that can only be rendered in one language) should be avoided on Abstract Wikipedia to the greatest extent possible. (Not to be confused with [[:f:Z11|monolingual text]]; its content should simply be translated depending on the user's language.) [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration]] 0q6z6poxvx2k7s3a561zt1tmtkfjgkw 0 4145 12019 11096 2026-07-14T08:41:40Z Jsamwrites 874 12019 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q55525272", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36049", "Z36049K1": { "Z1K1": "Z310", "Z310K1": "M58077687" }, "Z36049K2": { "Z1K1": "Z12", "Z12K1": [ "Z11", { "Z1K1": "Z11", "Z11K1": "Z1002", "Z11K2": "Non-binary flag" } ] }, "Z36049K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33068", "Z33068K1": [ "Z1", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z34282", "Z34282K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z34282K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ], "Z33068K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36897", "Z36897K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z36897K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } ehnzt2dvtr7llc7rufphdb3s2cmujfq 5 4316 11956 11942 2026-07-13T12:45:26Z Sannita (WMF) 48 /* Thoughts */ Reply 11956 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :That's true, but at some level, developer time+money (or lack thereof) is to blame for the endless timeouts and flakiness. And we who write all the functions, surely we'd be more productive if the servers had limitless computing power? I wonder how different the project would be if it had the same devs and management but was bankrolled by, say, {{Q|116758847}} or {{Q|380}}. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:47, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :Seconded on the corpo-speak. If I wanted equivocation I'd ask an LLM.<br>I elaborated on this in [[#c-YoshiRulz-20260708163700-re:_"Technical_performance_and_stability"_and_"Transparent_documentation_and_pro|my other comment]], but regarding documentation and roadmaps, you can't have too much (assuming what you write is actually content and not filler).<br>Regarding new users, on top of more and better documentation, the main page could do with a makeover. I assume the AW team has put some thought into what kinds of editor they want and where to direct them, but that hasn't translated (no pun intended) into changes to the main page, [[f:Help:Contents]], or [[f:Help:Multilingual]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 16:57, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :I feel the need to reiterate again that ''the Wiki model is based on transparency and community feedback''. This is the reason why across MediaWiki projects, virtually every single talk page across namespaces, articles, drafts, etc, have their history open. Decisions are made by community consensus, and importantly, they may be decisions that the WMF disagrees with. In the worst case scenario for this project, only a couple extremely small/niche languages will take up on this while all of the major languages ban it from their wikis. :<br /> :If you don't have radical transparency for future plans, you're just asking volunteers to either quit or get burnt out. Why work towards a project when it's future is uncertain? I started to contribute functions in late March ([[f:Z32839]]), but I quickly got confused and decided to leave until the future is more sorted out. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:02, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks for this. Unfortunately, I don't think we can do more than promise and keep the promise after that. Do you think this can be achieved with another formulation? We're open to proposals on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:45, 13 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :IMO they were mostly pointing at the previous generation when we hadn't even engaged with HTML yet, and were trying all kinds of messy fallback strategies. Yes, that link would be good, but I'm confident are making and will make further progress even before the new architectures come online. There was some criticism of AW being a "research project", so demonstrated concrete improvement is as important as planned future improvement. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:58, 13 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Content governance and control" == Link to AW policy discussions/drafts. Maybe reassure the critics by mentioning that <q><ins>As the system gets more expressive and articles improve in quality, poor-quality articles will become easier to spot. The community can also make new editing and moderation tools.</ins></q> [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:36, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Technical performance and stability" and "Transparent documentation and progress reporting" == Keeping [[f:WF:Status]] updated would be a good start (last meaningful edit: 2025-11). I've mentioned it once or twice and was ignored... There's also [[f:WF:Feature petitions]] which we could promote more (last edit: 2026-02), then the dev team could rely on that and [[f:WF:BUG]] (last edit: 2026-07) as a summary instead of trying to keep up with disparate discussions. And it really shouldn't fall to me to write something like [[f:Help:Z89]]. <br>Speaking for myself, I've filed a few Phabricator tickets, but I've also just come up with workarounds for many bugs and annoyances, to the point where I've internalised them and found it jarring when one "broke" last month. This feels out-of-line, but I have to ask: do you actually use the interface you've created? And perhaps more importantly, have you ever watched someone else use it? My programming workflow would probably seem insane were you to analyse it. <br>edit: I didn't intend to join the critics when I started writing, but here we are... <s>WF SUX</s> The current "progress" of WF/AW is indeed exaggerated, and even if you look at the average function instead of cherry-picking the best, it's only impressive because it's built on MediaWiki. FP languages, language interop, FOSS libraries, and machine translation (though not NLG) were already widespread. I agree with the pushback against calling it "beta software", because the problems are in the fundamentals: for WF, type checking, debugging, recursion; for AW, data structures. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 17:15, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Evidence == The current draft says: :''In the discussion many examples are mentioned where output technically exists but is not considered useful, natural, article-like, or publication-ready. The concern is that successful rendering can still produce text that is grammatically incorrect, repetitive, too thin, misleading, mixed-language, or not recognisable as encyclopedic article content.'' :This is a concern that we share, but we have evidence that the results will get better with time, and with the expansion of the community. This begs at least two questions: # Can you present this evidence? # What makes you think that the expansion of the community will actually happen? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-38939-76|&#126;2026-38939-76]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-38939-76|talk]]) 14:53, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Consider broadening the scope == If tweaked, this could become a living document that addresses common critiques / FAQs. That way it would address not only the particular enwiki criticisms at one point in time, but could become something we build on and refer to. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:01, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :We already have [[f:WF:FAQ]], [[f:WF:Status]], etc. (which are out of date as-is, so yet another page won't do any good), plus all the pages on Meta like [[meta:Abstract Wikipedia/Related and previous work/Natural language generation]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 06:39, 13 July 2026 (UTC) ::True, so maybe we've spread to too many venues and should just reuse this content there? --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:41, 13 July 2026 (UTC) noyxdt88l9nr5jombpo9xtx01wqapuk 12007 11956 2026-07-14T04:29:41Z 99of9 614 /* Thoughts */ Reply 12007 wikitext text/x-wiki == So fix it == The criticism started on 25 March, only a week after releasing the beta version of Abstract Wikipedia. Instead of looking into it and trying to understand the causes and fixing it the first reaction is criticism. I understand that large Wikipedia communities are hesitant (to say the least) on allowing Abstract Wikipedia articles on their Wikipedia, you could at least be more cooperative, empathetic and help fixing it. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 20:50, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I know that this reply may court controversy since it runs afoul of AGF, but: Can we even really say that [[w:en:WP:VPW]] is representative of the English wiki more broadly? It's basically the WMF haters' club board at enwiki. Which, I certainly understand the broader criticisms of the Foundation. But to assume that the particular talking points vis-a-vis Abstract Wikipedia are made in good faith boggles the imagination. Would any other WMF-hosted wiki consider it worthwhile to address uninformed chatter on another language edition's wiki? I doubt it, because of the overall pattern that wikis have independence of governance. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:14, 7 July 2026 (UTC) ::This reply made me chuckle - yeah, I agree. The people at VPW are generally more emotional about there stuff. There was some guy in the thread that made insults towards WMF staff like seven times, before some other guy told him to be quiet. ::There are completely valid concerns which I agree with a lot, but many people there seem to have a false assumption that AW is meant to "replace" the language-versions of Wikipedia. It's not. ::There probably came a point where the WMF learned to largely tune out what is happening there. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 06:58, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == English centric? == Yes the functions might be English centric at first, but not as bad as is being portrayed. As with Wikidata the names of the functions can be translated, as can the input labels. And gradually the functions are written for other languages. In case the functions are not yet tailored for an other language the English text, or parts of texts were shown in English. As that was not marked as such it gave a very distorted image of the situation. We are (I am) working on marking those default texts to make that clear. But it is difficult as currently no HTML codes like <nowiki><span></nowiki> can be used to highlight default texts. Instead of that I currently use texts like ❌≪NLG Default text≫❌, but the goal is to replace it by <span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span> by the HTML text <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">NLG Default text</span></nowiki>. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:05, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :I think the current (at time of writing) wording of the response is fine. WF ''is'' Anglocentric and Eurocentric, and like WD etc., it will probably always be Anglocentric because that is the international lingua franca. (I'd like to see a bit more globalisation in Project-space, but I'm not sure that's where the criticism was being directed.) The Anglocentric bias has already caused some problems with NLG functions, but the next generation of NLG functions is being designed and will be more accommodating. And as you say, we'll build mechanisms for <abbr title="calls-to-action">CTAs</abbr> in generated text (@ copyeditor '''maybe mention that in this section'''). [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:23, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Developers and budget == The emphasis of the criticisem lies heavily on developers and the budget for the development project. The functions and the result of those functions are (to be) written by the community. Any error in the functions is NOT related to the effort of the development project, but on the communities of Wikifunctions and AbstracWikipedia. As this is very much in Beta it unfair to blame that on the development. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 21:11, 6 July 2026 (UTC) :That's true, but at some level, developer time+money (or lack thereof) is to blame for the endless timeouts and flakiness. And we who write all the functions, surely we'd be more productive if the servers had limitless computing power? I wonder how different the project would be if it had the same devs and management but was bankrolled by, say, {{Q|116758847}} or {{Q|380}}. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:47, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Thoughts == It's great to push out a detailed response. Here are some mixed thoughts I have: * Much of this is vague. I understand that "response" aritcles written by organizations typically are so, but it's important to be more concrete about intentions/plans to the audience because we are a wiki-style model. For example, <blockquote> We hear this criticism: we will improve our documentation, aiming to make it more up to date, and easier to navigate.</blockquote> This just reads as an empty promise - I suspect many people at VPW will be ticked off reading it. It's vague enough that you could just update the docs once and add one more hyperlink and call it complete. It's okay if you don't currently have plans, but throw out some ideas and invite people to give feedback. * When asserting that other projects have successfully done natural language generation, you could list which languages they support and any shortcomings that they may have (that Wikifunctions can solve) * One reply I noticed on enwiki mentioned how unapproachable AW is, to the point where even though they know a foreign language (in this case Hungarian), they have no idea where to start. Ultimately, editing on AW requires knowledge in AW, Wikifunctions, and Wikidata. That is too much for many people. * You could start with a ''short'' high-level overview on what your intentions for AW is (to reiterate that it's not gonna replace content on articles), and you could end with clear-cut examples (with links) on how editors can help contribute (for example, by adding Wikidata lexemes in their language) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 07:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :Seconded on the corpo-speak. If I wanted equivocation I'd ask an LLM.<br>I elaborated on this in [[#c-YoshiRulz-20260708163700-re:_"Technical_performance_and_stability"_and_"Transparent_documentation_and_pro|my other comment]], but regarding documentation and roadmaps, you can't have too much (assuming what you write is actually content and not filler).<br>Regarding new users, on top of more and better documentation, the main page could do with a makeover. I assume the AW team has put some thought into what kinds of editor they want and where to direct them, but that hasn't translated (no pun intended) into changes to the main page, [[f:Help:Contents]], or [[f:Help:Multilingual]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 16:57, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :I feel the need to reiterate again that ''the Wiki model is based on transparency and community feedback''. This is the reason why across MediaWiki projects, virtually every single talk page across namespaces, articles, drafts, etc, have their history open. Decisions are made by community consensus, and importantly, they may be decisions that the WMF disagrees with. In the worst case scenario for this project, only a couple extremely small/niche languages will take up on this while all of the major languages ban it from their wikis. :<br /> :If you don't have radical transparency for future plans, you're just asking volunteers to either quit or get burnt out. Why work towards a project when it's future is uncertain? I started to contribute functions in late March ([[f:Z32839]]), but I quickly got confused and decided to leave until the future is more sorted out. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:02, 8 July 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks for this. Unfortunately, I don't think we can do more than promise and keep the promise after that. Do you think this can be achieved with another formulation? We're open to proposals on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:45, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :::My trivial proposal would be to start the task before making the promise. As others have suggested, [[f:WF:Status]] is out of date and could be updated quickly by staff (it discourages non-staff ownership). --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:29, 14 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Natural language generation feasibility across diverse languages" == The critics were pointing at the ''current'' generation of NLG prototypes, which do suck (in terms of cross-language output, as well as being unruly to work with). So acknowledge that. Link to [[Project:Abstract article architectures]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:24, 8 July 2026 (UTC) :IMO they were mostly pointing at the previous generation when we hadn't even engaged with HTML yet, and were trying all kinds of messy fallback strategies. Yes, that link would be good, but I'm confident are making and will make further progress even before the new architectures come online. There was some criticism of AW being a "research project", so demonstrated concrete improvement is as important as planned future improvement. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 05:58, 13 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Generated article quality" == <blockquote>[...] but to produce accurate and useful content that any language community can <del>choose to adapt or integrate to fill their current knowledge gaps.</del> <ins>either use as a template for a local article, or use as a placeholder indefinitely&mdash;the choice will be with that community. If you're familiar with [[mw:Extension:ArticlePlaceholder]] or [[toolforge:autodesc]], our goal is to meet and then surpass their usefulness to readers, while keeping all the logic editable on WF/AW.</ins></blockquote> * Reiterates that each wiki decides which articles to take (since at least one of the critics still held that misconception) * Name-drops ArticlePlaceholder (which I feel has been the "elephant in the room", unmentioned by staff since I joined last year), and acknowledges that the current prototypes are inferior to it [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 14:59, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Content governance and control" == Link to AW policy discussions/drafts. Maybe reassure the critics by mentioning that <q><ins>As the system gets more expressive and articles improve in quality, poor-quality articles will become easier to spot. The community can also make new editing and moderation tools.</ins></q> [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 15:36, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == re: "Technical performance and stability" and "Transparent documentation and progress reporting" == Keeping [[f:WF:Status]] updated would be a good start (last meaningful edit: 2025-11). I've mentioned it once or twice and was ignored... There's also [[f:WF:Feature petitions]] which we could promote more (last edit: 2026-02), then the dev team could rely on that and [[f:WF:BUG]] (last edit: 2026-07) as a summary instead of trying to keep up with disparate discussions. And it really shouldn't fall to me to write something like [[f:Help:Z89]]. <br>Speaking for myself, I've filed a few Phabricator tickets, but I've also just come up with workarounds for many bugs and annoyances, to the point where I've internalised them and found it jarring when one "broke" last month. This feels out-of-line, but I have to ask: do you actually use the interface you've created? And perhaps more importantly, have you ever watched someone else use it? My programming workflow would probably seem insane were you to analyse it. <br>edit: I didn't intend to join the critics when I started writing, but here we are... <s>WF SUX</s> The current "progress" of WF/AW is indeed exaggerated, and even if you look at the average function instead of cherry-picking the best, it's only impressive because it's built on MediaWiki. FP languages, language interop, FOSS libraries, and machine translation (though not NLG) were already widespread. I agree with the pushback against calling it "beta software", because the problems are in the fundamentals: for WF, type checking, debugging, recursion; for AW, data structures. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 17:15, 8 July 2026 (UTC) == Evidence == The current draft says: :''In the discussion many examples are mentioned where output technically exists but is not considered useful, natural, article-like, or publication-ready. The concern is that successful rendering can still produce text that is grammatically incorrect, repetitive, too thin, misleading, mixed-language, or not recognisable as encyclopedic article content.'' :This is a concern that we share, but we have evidence that the results will get better with time, and with the expansion of the community. This begs at least two questions: # Can you present this evidence? # What makes you think that the expansion of the community will actually happen? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-38939-76|&#126;2026-38939-76]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-38939-76|talk]]) 14:53, 9 July 2026 (UTC) == Consider broadening the scope == If tweaked, this could become a living document that addresses common critiques / FAQs. That way it would address not only the particular enwiki criticisms at one point in time, but could become something we build on and refer to. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:01, 13 July 2026 (UTC) :We already have [[f:WF:FAQ]], [[f:WF:Status]], etc. (which are out of date as-is, so yet another page won't do any good), plus all the pages on Meta like [[meta:Abstract Wikipedia/Related and previous work/Natural language generation]]. [[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 06:39, 13 July 2026 (UTC) ::True, so maybe we've spread to too many venues and should just reuse this content there? --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:41, 13 July 2026 (UTC) jwpdwmrpspew8aaffyl90y47tyguqam 0 4452 11968 2026-07-13T16:58:13Z Jsamwrites 874 Created page with "{ "qid": "Q6397", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36038", "Z36038K1": { "Z1K1": "Z310", "Z310K1": "M4837750" }, "Z36038K2": "View of Avignon" }, {..." 11968 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q6397", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36038", "Z36038K1": { "Z1K1": "Z310", "Z310K1": "M4837750" }, "Z36038K2": "View of Avignon" }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36678", "Z36678K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z36678K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z36983", "Z36983K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": 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