Talk:Clamengh

From Wikipedia

Ciao Claudi - I received your message - I am happy to try and help with both your requests. In relation to the automated date, I'll copy it in as soon as I get a spare moment - you or a sysop will then need to go to your special edit messages and replace all the english days with the lombard equivalents. Re the gallo-siculo dialects - I agree it is a very interesting area for both our wikipedias, but at the moment I don't think we have got around to doing an article in scn.wiki - in fact we still haven't completed the article on Sicilian, and haven't even done one yet on either Italian or English! But, I do recall finding something on the subject, written in Italian, in the linguasiciliana website - it was a great article but I would have to try and find it again, the website is quite big these days and it might take me some time to locate it. As soon as I find it, I will leave the exact web adress here. Good luck with lmo.wiki - it is always an exciting time starting a wikipedia from scratch and you will all get great personal satisfaction from it I am sure. Salutamu. --Pippu d'Angelo 21:09, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Ciao Claudi - this page is from the Piazza Amerina website (one of the largest gallo-siculo communities in Sicily - the others being Aidone, Sperlinga, San Frantello and one or two others that escape me) - Piazza Amerina It has further links to other information plus it also carries a poem in "piazzese". I'll probably end up using it when I get round to doing the article on the gallo-siculo dialects. What we have to keep in mind is that their history goes back to the time of the Norman kings of the early 12th century when tens of thousands of north italians migrated to the depopulated central parts of Sicily (we often loosely refer to these migrants as Lombards, but in fact they came from all parts of northern Italy). It's hard for us to picture this nowadays because the trend of migration has been well and truly reversed for a century, but in the early 12th century the Kingdom of Sicily was one of the most powerful and wealthiest nations on Earth. With the complete defeat of the saracens in 1091, large parts of central Sicily became underpopulated, and that was the catalyst for the migrations. The link with northern Italy was not only linguistic, but the then Queen of Sicily, Adelaide, who ruled as regent during the minority of both Simon and Roger II, was herself from northern Italy, and it was probably she that encouraged the migrations. But over the centuries, these gallo-siculo dialects, being a marriage of Sicilian and gallic-italic, melded both elements but are equally dissimiliar to both. They are separate idioms in their own right and indeed the 5 or 6 main variations are not necessarily all that similiar to each other. The dialect from San Frantello, for instance, appears to be more closely related to provencal (with which Sicily also had close links at the time). All in all, it's an absolutely fascinating area, and I look forward to researching it a bit more, writing some articles, and having a look at what you come up with as well! It would be great to share notes on the subject over the next few months. Salutamu. --Pippu d'Angelo 01:45, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Ciao Claudi - I left the following message in Lu Circulu re ssabbinidica:

I think that someone like Giusi or Peppi could probably answer this better than I, but I'll give it a shot. Binidìciri = benedire, so it is easy to work out the binidica bit. The 'ssa part is a shortening of vossia which is the equivalent of Italian Lei or French vous. Indeed the term ssabbinidica has a multitude of forms, one of which is also vossabbenedica, in which its meaning (and etymology) becomes a little clearer. Anyway, Piccitto provides the following Italian translation: formula di saluto che si rivolge (e ormai sempre meno) ai preti, a persone di riguardo e ai parenti più degni di rispetto, come genitori e nonni. Other variants: ssabbanadica, sabbenadica, ssabbenarica, ssabenerica, ssabbinadica, ssabbinidica, ssabbinirica, ecc (all representing various Sicilian parrati - I'm not sure which is the more common form, but I would guess the most probable literary form would be ssabbinidica. Salutamu. Pippu d'Angelo 11:20, 4 diçembər 2005 (UTC)