Wikipedia talk:Alegeri
Де ла Википедия ын лимба молдовеняскэ
[edit] Comentarii
Aici lăsaţi comentariile dvs. preferabil în limbă moldovenească/română (nu toţi cunosc limba engleză).
[edit] Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti?
Nu există limbă moldovenescă!!! Asta e inventia rusilor.
Oare există limbă americană, braziliană, argentiniană, austriacă ?...
--Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti?
Cineva ar putea să-mi spună de unde s-a luat acest Node_ue ? --User:Cirimpei I
- Foarte simplu: nodu' e pasionat de limba japoneza. Lui ii place limba vorbita de pe un arhipelag de insule (Node) si in special Ryiukuku (sau cam asa ceva). Deci node ue ar fi arhipelagul "ue". Cauta sa vezi ce inseamna "ue" si o sa-ti dai seama. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 17:23, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Studentă
Chiar trebuie să pierdem atît de mult timp pentru a convinge un om străin valorilor noastre că nu există limbă moldovenească? Şi aşa am pierdut o jumătate de secol pe asta!
- Trebuie să lămurim odata, ceea ce şi a fost făcut, daca mesajul nu este înţeles, nu mai e nevoie de repetat. --Pavel 12:24, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Node_ue
- Protaze nu sint nici impartiali nici trebuinciosi.
- Toate conditiile alegerilor sint nedrepti.
- Nu este PdVN.
Node ue 20:11, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Corect se spune "toate conditiile alegerilor este nedrepti"... Asa e, nu este PDVN, tovarase... Astia-s niste burghezo-capitalisti nemernici, nu pune la inima... --Ditae spune ca mo.wiki nu trebuie sa existe. 02:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cracker
Nu există limbă moldovenescă!!!
Oare există limbă americană, braziliană, argentiniană, austriacă ?...
--Cracker
Foarte corectă observaţie --Cirimpei I
[edit] AdiJapan (ro.wp)
În primul rînd trebuie ca acest vot să fie organizat corect. Preambulul de sus trebuie neapărat să precizeze cine are autoritatea să organizeze un astfel de vot, cine are autoritatea să desfiinţeze un proiect Wikipedia şi care sînt motivele suficiente pentru aceasta.
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- Da, sunt de acord. Vom face neparat modificarile propuse. --Pavel 11:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
În cazul că votul se desfăşoară corect iată poziţia mea:
1. Contra. "Limba moldovenească" este un alt nume pentru "limba română". Nu este o limbă separată, oricît se chinuie unii să demonstreze. În plus, Wikipedia este scrisă în limba cultivată, îngrijită, nu cea amestecată cu rusa sau cu alte limbi. Deci nu există diferenţe.
- Amestecata cu rusa sau cu alte limbi?? Spare us. The article here on, say, population density, is not written in a "mixed language". It's just written in Moldovan with Cyrillic, copied basically directly from the Romanian version. No language mixing. Just a different alphabet. --24.251.68.75 00:59, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
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- My point exactly. Read again.
- And be civil enough to write in the language of this Wikipedia.
- AdiJapan
- You don't demonstrate any problem with using Cyrillic. --Node ue 16:20, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
- That's not what I said. Read again. Or maybe give it up.
- AdiJapan
- That's my point -- you said absolutely nothing about it. I'm not as dumb as you think. --Node ue 23:51, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
- I know you're smart, I've said it before.
- It's pretty much against the flow to translate into English on Moldovan Wikipedia, but here is what I said: Oppose. "Moldovan" is just another name for "Romanian". It is not a separate language, no matter how hard some people try to prove it is. Besides, Wikipedia is written in the cultivated, careful language, not the one mixed with Russian or other languages. As such, there are no differences.
- Which means I said nothing about using Cyrillic. Some people advanced in some places the argument that present-day Moldovan is different from Romanian because the former contains lots of Russian words and relies heavily on code-switching. And what I wrote above was meant to say that in their cultivated forms Moldovan and Romanian are identical. Which is something you knew. --AdiJapan 14:22, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
- You didn't need to translate it. I said specifically "you said absolutely nothing about it". The "difference" i sthe alphabet. --Node ue 21:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
- That's my point -- you said absolutely nothing about it. I'm not as dumb as you think. --Node ue 23:51, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
- You don't demonstrate any problem with using Cyrillic. --Node ue 16:20, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
2. Pro. Cîtă vreme nu este nici ro şi nici mo n-am nimic împotrivă.
3. Contra. O astfel de opţiune, deşi se crede că este posibilă, nu va funcţiona. Conţinutul articolelor, da, poate. Dar vor fi probleme de exemplu cu numele de formate (template). Este o complicaţie absolut inutilă, doar pentru uzul transnistrenilor, care şi aşa doresc să folosească alfabetul latin (vezi criza din 2004).
[edit] 82.78.114.217
Comasarea celor doua ar fi in folosul ambelor parti. 82.78.114.217
- Salut! Până când nu s-a stabilit data votării, când o stabilim (sunt binevenite sugestiile în privinţa unei date concrete), de pe data ceea şi se incepe votul. Pot vota doar userii înregistraţi la mo.wikipedia sau ro.wikipedia, cu nu mai puţin de 25 editări la activ. Dacă dvs. sunteţi un utilizator deja înregistrat vă rog identificaţi-vă. --Pavel 20:38, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] en:Jmabel
Apologies in advance for making my remarks in English; while I read Romanian/Moldovan well enough to follow all of the above, I do not write it as well as I read it. Anyone is welcome to translate my remarks.
I see no evidence that Moldovan is different enough from Romanian to merit an Wikipedia of its own on that basis. As far as I can tell, the only difference between the official forms of the two is a minor issue of orthography (â vs. î within words). The differences between the actual spoken language of Moldova and this official form does not appear to be any larger than for many regions of Romania. Writing it in Cyrillic characters seems to me to be an affectation. Perhaps this is somewhat common practice today in Transnistria, I don't know, but it is certainly, in general, an archaic way of writing the language.
On the other hand, I'm not sure I understand the basis for stopping a group of people from pursuing this project if they want to. Is this any worse than an effort to build a Wikipedia in Esperanto? What exactly is supposed to be the downside of letting this idiosyncratic project move forward?
By the way, Cracker, you might want to know that there may be a project moving forward to build a Wikipedia in Brazilian Portuguese, as against Metropolitan Portuguese. Not a language I know well enough to have a strong opinion, but I'm told that the differences are non-trivial (certainly more than between Moldovan and Romanian).
If anyone wishes to respond specifically to me, please let me know on my en: talk page, and please provide a link to this page again, since I will not be monitoring this Wikipedia. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:31, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
- (În traducere:)
- Îmi cer scuze pentru comentariile în engleză; citesc româneşte/moldoveneşte destul de bine ca să înţeleg ce-aţi scris mai sus, dar nu pot să scriu la fel de bine pe cît citesc. Cine doreşte să-mi traducă remarcile e binevenit.
- Nu ştiu să existe argumente potrivit cărora limba moldovenească ar fi suficient de diferită de limba română pentru a merita o Wikipedie proprie. Din cîte îmi dau seama singura diferenţă dintre formele oficiale ale celor două limbi este o chestiune minoră de ortografie (â sau î în interiorul cuvintelor). Diferenţele dintre limba vorbită în Republica Moldova şi forma oficială nu pare să fie mai mare decît aceea dintre diferite regiuni ale României. Scrierea ei cu caractere chirilice mi se pare doar un moft. Probabil că aşa se practică în Transnistria, nu ştiu, dar în general este clar un mod arhaic de a scrie această limbă.
- Pe de altă parte nu prea înţeleg pe ce se poate baza încercarea de a opri un grup de oameni care doresc să lucreze la un astfel de proiect. Cu ce este acest efort mai greşit decît acela de a scrie Wikipedia în limba esperanto? Care anume ar fi inconvenientul de a permite acestui proiect aparte să avanseze?
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- Argumente sunt destul de multe:
- 1. Unicul care traducea interfaţa era Node_ue şi uite ce a facut el, Caută - Răscoală/Bârcâieşte, Navigare - Plutire, era vorbează în loc de vorbeşte, Trusă de scule - Halaturi, în loc de Schimbări Recente - Mutări Noi (el ce se aşteaptă numai mutari să fie?), foloseşte o groază de cuvinte arhaice (care de fapt se foloseau nu numai in regiunea moldovei dar şi in regiuni din românia, dar nu se mai folosesc nicăieri), ce inseamnă P.com ?, cu alte cuvinte, el a avut foarte mult timp la dispoziţie să traducă bine interfaţa şi ce el a făcut ? A scris multe cuvinte de care probabil mai mult ştiu românii decât moldovenii şi care nu se mai folosesc de mult timp nici acolo nici aici.
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- P.com is quite obviously the community portal. Either that or PCRM (hah). Rascoala, as a conjugation of rascoli, is a perfectly valid translation for "search". Maybe you don't like it because it's not identical to the translation your little Romanian buddies chose. So I replaced it with the perfectly acceptable Moldovan word "bircieste". If you'll look at the top of the page right now, the talk page is "vorbeste" and not Vorbeaza. Plutire is IMHO a quite nice word to use in that case, and certainly much better than "navigare". You seem to be under the impression that this Wikipedia "changed" from using all of these bastard Gallicisms to using Moldovenisms/Romanianisms. Well, this Wikipedia was conceived with an interface entirely in English. Anything in Moldovan, including "retine ca toate contributiile la wikipedia sint considerate ca respectind licenta gnu free documentation license..." is all my work. So, maybe you don't like 1/100th of it. But you don't complain about the rest. As far as "halaturi", you should know full well as a Moldovan that "halaturi" is a word of Turkish roots meaning exactly the same thing as your beloved "scule", and that it exists as a word equally so (maybe you confuse it with "Halate", but even I am not dumb enough to label a toolbox as a heap of bathrobes). Ever since you signed up here, I think "mutari noi" is really very accurate. You and your buddies have done nothing but remove ad move things. Before you came, "schimbari" was accurate, but since then, it's obviously not. And how a word be mroe known by Romanians than Moldovans if as you say they speak the same language??? --Node ue 16:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
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- 2. Conţinutul este identic cu cel din ro.wikipedia, conţinutul nou se gaseşte cam în aşa format, vezi: Limba moldovenească (articol blocat, fară nici o înştiinţare):
- Ын Кишинэу де махала, ворбеск о "лимба аместекатэ", де русеште ши ромынеште. Ачастэ ворба есте молдовеняскэ невиноватэ. (În Chişinău de mahala, vorbesc o "limba amestecată", de ruseşte şi româneşte. Această vorba este moldovenească nevinovată), şi asta după ce eu i-am spus că articolul conţine aberaţii, uite ce era până atunci: Ей есте молдовеняскэ реал. (Ei este moldovenască real). Sau încă - "алфабетул офичиял" când trebuie să fie "офичиал" Cu alte cuvinte articole vor conţine o gramatică foarte proastă cu un conţinut dubios pe care nici Russ nici Gabix nu-l pot verifica din simplu motiv ca nu ştiu limba, şi atunci cine va avea grijă de respectarea neutralităţii articolelor, oare ce impresie va avea un om despre wikipedia citind aşa ceva sau vizitând site-ul şi realizând ca nu înţelege sensul la 50% cuvintelor din interfaţă deşi trăieşte in Moldova ? Oare ai vrea pe o wikipedie oficială care un om ordinar ar crede ca reprezintă Republica Moldova să fie o colecţie de falsuri ca propagandă a unui singur om ?
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- Check the article history to see why it's locked. People constantly blanked the page. If you wanted to make real changes to it, that's good, but apparently most people just wanted to blank it over and over again. Regarding misspellings, don't complain. This is a Wiki. If a word is misspelt, go ahead and fix it. Whinging that we misspell too many words helps noone. And who the **** said this Wikipedia represents Republica Moldova? No, it represents Narodulu' Maldavianesk and limba nuastrî. I would love to write the articles in Real Moldovan, with things like "nuastrî" and "şî" and "cî" and "îi", but that's not really the aim of this Wikipedia, which is rather to offer things in the universal literary Moldovan which has been stripped of all its character by Stalinists who dreamed of eventual integration of Romania into the USSR. And the fact is, if it's written only in Latin, it's not universal, it runs the risk of ignoring those people who use Cyrillic. Many have complained here that there are few people who write in Cyrillic... well, even though they can now choose between Cyrillic and Latin (since a Latin school was reopened), the majority of Moldavian schoolchildren in Transnistria still receive an education with Cyrillic using textbooks printed in Moscow. And though they may only be a drop in the pond that is Narodul Maldavianesc, I think it's part of our duty to work not to exclude them just because unionists like you have a burning hatred of Santists - should schoolchildren be allowed to get stuck in the middle of a political battle between Unionists, Centrists, Moldovenists, and Shantists? Currently they can only read Soviet Propaganda in their language. How about something a bit more neutral?
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- 3. Cine va scrie conţinutul nou ? Toate articole se copie direct din ro.wikipedia, şi un pic se scurtează ca să nu bată la ochi prea tare. Node_ue nu ştie bine limba - o scrie cu prea multe greşeli şi are o viziune distorsionată asupra la ce este limba moldovenească (o ştie undeva între ro-0 şi ro-1), Russ nu o ştie, Gabix aparent tot nu o ştie, deci, cine ? --Pavel 11:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
- How do you know whether or not Russ or Gabix knows any? Dmitriid has a relatively good command of the language, since he learnt it in school; Vertaler is an ardent Shantist I think and it's his native langage. Elnoel is fluent aswell and seems to be something of a Santist himself. And lay off wth the "toate articole se copie direct". Probably 2% of the content here is original. Try to find every last bit of it, I bet you fail. --Node ue 16:18, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
- 3. Cine va scrie conţinutul nou ? Toate articole se copie direct din ro.wikipedia, şi un pic se scurtează ca să nu bată la ochi prea tare. Node_ue nu ştie bine limba - o scrie cu prea multe greşeli şi are o viziune distorsionată asupra la ce este limba moldovenească (o ştie undeva între ro-0 şi ro-1), Russ nu o ştie, Gabix aparent tot nu o ştie, deci, cine ? --Pavel 11:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
- Apropo, Cracker, ar fi bine să ştii că s-ar putea să existe un proiect de a scrie o Wikipedie în portugheza braziliană, diferită de cea în portugheza metropolitană. Nu e o limbă pe care o cunosc destul de bine ca să am o opinie fermă, dar am auzit că diferenţele nu sînt banale (sigur mai mari decît cele între moldovenească şi română).
- Dacă doreşte să-mi scrie cineva personal îl rog s-o facă pe pagina mea de discuţii de la Wikipedia în limba engleză şi să-mi scrieţi în mesaj din nou o legătură la această pagină, pentru că nu urmăresc această Wikipedie. [semnătura lui Jmabel cu legături spre paginile sale de utilizator şi de discuţii de pe en.wp]
- (Traducere: AdiJapan)
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- Mulţumesc încă o dată, Adi, ai putea te rog să-l anunţi pe Jmabel că i-am raspuns ? --Pavel 11:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Pentru puţin.
- L-am anunţat pe Jmabel că i-ai răspuns, vezi aici: en:user talk:Jmabel#Mo.wp. --AdiJapan
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Thanks for translating, Adi. I have only two things to add:
- I don't think a small contributor pool is a strong argument against this: we have Wikipedias with fewer likely contributors: Herero, Yi, Avar, and Manx for example.
- The Transnistria argument has at least some validity. If people there are, in fact, even today learning a detectably different form of the language, include some currency for writing it in Cyrillic, that would argue in favor of this project. Certainly their Cyrillic-script contributions would not be welcome in the Romanian Wikipedia.
Other than that, I think I've said my piece. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
- (În traducere:)
- Mulţumesc pentru traducere Adi. Mai am de adăugat doar două lucruri:
- Nu cred că numărul mic al contribuitorilor este un argument solid: avem Wikipedii cu încă şi mai puţini contribuitori potenţiali, de exemplu Herero, Yi, Avar şi Manx.
- Argumentul cu Transnistria este cel puţin în parte valabil. Dacă acolo oamenii într-adevăr învaţă încă şi astăzi o formă a limbii cu diferenţe detectabile, inclusiv scrierea ei cu chirilice, acest fapt vine în favoarea acestui proiect. Cu siguranţă contribuţiile lor în caractere chirilice n-ar fi binevenite pe Wikipedia în limba română.
- Cu asta cred că am spus cam tot ce aveam de spus. [semnătura lui Jmabel şi legături pentru contactare]
- (Traducere: AdiJapan)
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- Yeah, they do "use" the Russian Script, becase of Linguistic cleanising in Transnistria (alias Pridnestrovje) : see Vladimir Socor, "Linguistic Cleansing" in Transdniester to Banish Latin Script. The Jamestown Foundation, Eurasia Daily Monitor, Tuesday, 20 July 2004, Volume 1, issue 55. Or this: the OSCE High Commissioner on National Minorities, Rolf Ekeus about Linguistic Cleansing. So if you are supporting this policy against Latin Script (which I assume is so), and if you think there are any Transdniestrians that would support this idea of yours about a new Language that should be written with Russian Script (which I also assume is very probable), then please, feel free to create a new Transdniestrian Language and a new "Pridnestrovskaya Wikipedia"! Just make sure to do a better job than a simple transcription from Latin Script. That's not funny any more. Vasile Stati used this way (plagiarism), and made a fool of himself. --85.186.241.197 18:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
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- I don't really know what to say, so I'll echo Jmabel. Izehar 22:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Node_ue, nu mai amesteca dizepam cu stalinskaya. Ca ajungi rau... Deja contactul cu realitatea e (si incerc sa fiu amabil, ca de obicei) sa zicem... tangential, cel mult.--Ditae spune ca mo.wiki nu trebuie sa existe. 02:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Romihaitza
Să înţeleg că cei care au votat înainte şi-au schimbat părerile şi nu mai doresc proiectul sau că există utilizatori noi implicaţi aici care îşi dau seama de realităţile limbii române?
Oricum, răspunsurile mele sunt:
- Negativ
- Negativ - ar trebui creat domeniul ro-cyr
- Negativ - s-ar putea crea mai bine o pagină cu legături spre situri externe care pot translitera
-Romihaitza 13:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
- Voi anunţa acest vot la rowiki. -Romihaitza 14:48, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] en:Oleg Alexandrov
How are you people going to enforce your vote? This has happened before. People voted, all and fine, but then nobody listened. en:Oleg Alexandrov (en:talk) 03:52, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Scrie te rog mult în moldoveneşte/româneşte, engleza mulţi nu o ştiu. --Pavel 10:55, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] ru:Wulfson
Pro - If there are people prepared to develop and support a WP in Moldovan they should have the right to do it. We even have two WPs in English (ordinary and Simple English), and one Anglo Saxon - why can't there be a Moldovan WP (even if someone may refer to it as Romanian Cyrillic). By refusing to grant them this right, we will simply support one of the sides in the (actual or not) ethnic conflict, thus showing a biased attitude and violating the NPOV rule - Wulfson 06:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
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- "...why can't there be a Moldovan WP..." Because some of the people of Moldova DO NOT WANT IT!!!! That is what this vote is for! To let people who really understand Romanian/Moldovan vote for the fate of the WP! Can't you understand it is like an insult for a true Moldovan/Romanian to hear that there is a Moldovan language, moreover that it uses the Cyrillic alphabet?! And what, you think that if there are people who want to support such a WP should do it? Even though it DIRECTLY regards the people of Moldova/Romania, who may/or may not want it. Again, this is why we're voting for. --212.0.195.84 14:59, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- Utilizatorul nu are minim 25 contribuţii la activ. Также хотел бы от себя добавить, здесь не все знают англиский, так что не все тебя понимают. Должны голосовать те кто знают язык, те кто могут как-то помочь, это локальное решение. Больше по русски я здесь писать не буду, если что, можешь ответить на своей странице. --Pavel 10:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, Pavel, you don't own Wikipedia. You have no authority to disallow him to vote. Go away. --Node ue 19:02, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- First of all, you should all be speaking romanian, otherwise I don't see why any of you should be involved in this problem. Second, wulfson, there can't be a mo.wiki because moldovian is not a language and moldovians are the same thing with romanians. So, nobody needs 2 wikis (ma rog, nici de 2 tari nu e nevoie) for the same nation, using the same language. And by the way, today is one of my happy days, so I tried to be nice and not say a word about the stupid thing you said: "By refusing to grant them this right, we will simply support one of the sides in the (actual or not) ethnic conflict, thus showing a biased attitude and violating the NPOV rule". What kind of ethnic conflict could there be if we are speaking about the same nation, same people. And by the way, you are russian so shut up and put down that vodka bottle... "Moldavian" language was created (as a concept) by russians so please have the decency to shut up. And for node ue: read the rules of this voting. Only romanian speakers are allowed to vote. Si pentru utilizatorii romani: logica ar fi sa se scrie doar in romana pe pagina asta, nu sa se implice (si culmea, fara minimul bun simt de a cunoaste situatia) orice neavenit (sau orice rus...).--Ditae 01:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Elerium
Deşi am avut o mică problemă de întrebat pe Node ue, mai am o singură observaţie: această wikipedie (moldovenească) nu trebuie să fie în chirilică, nici măcar în două alfabete. Argument : din câte ştiu, limba moldovenească (nu discut dacă există sau nu), are alfabet latin. Iar wikipedia se referă la limbă nu la ţară, vendete personale, naţionalism, ş.a. Dacă se doreşte o limbă moldovenească cu grafie chirilică, să nu se numească moldovenească ci moldovenească în chirilice. Pentru mine este important faptul că pe pagina principală a oricărei wikipedii (chiar şi română) scrie moldoveneşte în chirilică, nu în grafia latină. Pentru moldoveneşte în chirilică să fie ceva separat, la care să scrie moldoveneşte/româneşte cu alfabet chirilic, după modelul simple english. Nu îmi permit să votez pentru că nu cred că este etic să votez.
Să îmi zică cineva unde greşesc.Elerium 17:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC).
- Nu greşeşti nicăieri, de ce crezi ca nu este etic să votezi ? --Pavel 18:33, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Pentru că nu cred că se poate face ceva, şi nici nu cred că sunt obiectiv. Dar ... de vorbit pot vorbi. Dacă ar fi să votez aş vota pentru păstrarea wikipediei în româneşte/moldoveneşte, dar în limba adevărată cea care moldovenii (voi) de peste Prut spun că ar exista, nu chirilică. Iar pentru moldovenească în chirilică, ciudat fel de a spune, să existe un mo-cy cu specificarea ideii de moldovenească în chirilică. Această discuţie am mai fost fără vreun rezultat. Elerium 18:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC).
- Cât priveşte majoritatea din Republica Moldova, iti zic cu siguranta, toţi aici foarte bine îsi dau seama ca noi vorbim româna şi nu prea ai să auzi de "limba moldovenească". --Pavel 23:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Pentru că nu cred că se poate face ceva, şi nici nu cred că sunt obiectiv. Dar ... de vorbit pot vorbi. Dacă ar fi să votez aş vota pentru păstrarea wikipediei în româneşte/moldoveneşte, dar în limba adevărată cea care moldovenii (voi) de peste Prut spun că ar exista, nu chirilică. Iar pentru moldovenească în chirilică, ciudat fel de a spune, să existe un mo-cy cu specificarea ideii de moldovenească în chirilică. Această discuţie am mai fost fără vreun rezultat. Elerium 18:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC).
- I can see now that this wikipedia is just a place for personal vendettas, revenges, and for users that are ignored in other wikipedias. Now i'm even sorry to have wasted my time here, trying to be reasonable. I care for the Romanian language, yet it does not seem to be the problem here. It's just a playground for kids. Pavel I hope you can acomplish something here, but now I don't think I'm gonna stay here. If you still think there is a need for me, you can find me on ro.wikipedia.org. I guess you know what my vote is. Elerium 21:52, 15 January 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Cum vor vota editorii ro.wiki?
Cum vor putea vota editorii de pe ro.wiki? Mai precis, cum vor putea fi identificati? Sa inteleg ca un cont ro.wiki e automat si un cont mo.wiki? Sau exista vreo subtilitate wikipedia pentru a trece de la un domeniu la altul fara a schimba afilierea? ro:Utilizator:Dpotop
- Semnaţi cu username-ul ro:Utilizator:Dpotop şi gata, eu vă contactez pe pagina dvs. şi îmi confirmaţi că aţi votat. --Pavel 13:36, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Pavel, chiar ai făcut asta? Uite eu am votat, dar nu am fost contactat ca să confirm votul... ro:Utilizator:Vlad
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- Eu aş cere ca toţi să participe la verificarea, dar până când are sens de verificat dacă sunt 25 contribuţii la activ, partea cu identificarea deja va urma dupa ce se va termina votul, atunci vom face verificare (şi ar fi bine toţi să participe la ea, cred-ca ar fi o idee bună de creat o pagină aparte, unde facem o listă de toţi utilizatori care au votat şi de acolo deja unul la altul va face verificare şi vom scrie care utilizatori sunt confirmaţi că au votat valid. Dar e părerea mea, şi nu e neaparat cea mai bună, dacă sunt sugestii ar fi foarte bine să le discutăm cu toţii. --Pavel 20:43, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
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- De ce am întrebat: pentru că de exemplu când TSO1D a votat prima dată cred că a votat cu IP-ul şi nu a fost ok, dar când a pus un nume de utilizator a fost ok... ro:Utilizator:Vlad
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[edit] Intrebarea 2
Se asuma in intrebarea 2 ca va exista o wikipedia mo; eu as folosi conditionalul "ar ramane". --Vasile 17:17, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
- Mulţumesc. Am modificat. --Pavel 17:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cum si exact unde votăm ? Aici?
Sper că votez unde trebuie. Dacă ar fi să ne ghidăm după exemplul altor ţări cu aceeaşi limbă (Austria/Germania) situaţia este clară: Limba Moldovenească nu există. Este un grai, un dialect regional. Aşa cum australienii, chiar dacă vorbesc cu un accent diferit de cel american şi un număr de cuvinte specifice, se consideră vorbitori de limba engleză. Fratii noştri moldoveni trebuie să înţeleagă că aici nu este vorba de o încercare de discriminare, nu e o încercare de a li se refuza ceva. Cel mai evindent rezultat ar fi dimpotrivă, unirea forţelor într-o wikipedia mai mare. Nemţii şi austriecii scriu la de.wiki, nu? Deci:
1: Contra
2: Contra. În prezent limba română se scrie în alfabetul latin. Ar fi un consum inutil de resurse. Dacă aş crede că există cetăţeni ai Republici Moldova care nu cunosc alfabetul latin, aş vota Pro, dar nu cred asta.
- Aici intrebarea e alta, daca ar fi o enciclopedie in chirilică, care nume ar fi mai potrivit, pro dacă mo-cyr/sau poate ro-cyr si contra, dacă mo. --Pavel 15:00, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
3: Contra
-Paul-, ro:Utilizator:-Paul-
- Ar fi bine sa plasaţi aceste voturi chiar sus, sau pot eu să o fac. --Pavel 14:56, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Conversion
Pavel says it's possible to automatically convert between the two scripts at ro.wiki. Alright, then, prove it -- what will you do if "pro" wins, and you end up not being able to make a working model? --Node ue 21:36, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Greetings
I don't speak Romanian/Moldovan, but I support Pavel and his good initiative. Trust the people. :-) Mistrust the "experts". --Elephantus 22:44, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
- Experts vs People? That's a weird characterisation. There are no "experts" here. It's People vs People. --Node
[edit] Confuzie
Acest vot este cam confuz - adică, nu ştiu cum să îmi spun părerile folosind întrebările pro-contra de mai sus. Punctul meu de vedere este următorul:
- Acest site, mo.wiki, ar trebui să fie un portal biscriptal fără conţinut, cu legături la ro.wiki şi mo-cyr.wiki.
- Conţinutul chirilic ar trebui să fie mutat la mo-cyr, uniscriptal, care să se cheme "Moldovenească (chirilică)" - română (chirilică) este un nonsens fiind că româna nu a fost scrisă în acest alfabet de peste o sută de ani.
- Nu suport adaugarea conţinutului chirilic la ro.wiki şi nici convertirea automată.
Mulţumesc, Ronline 06:26, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Nu înţeleg, de ce e confuz pentru tine, din ceea ce ai spus reiese ca tu: 1. suporţi existenţa unei wiki in chirilică. 2. suporţi sa fie mo-cyr. Care e problema atunci ? --Pavel 12:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Propunere de ban pentru Node ue
Daca nu vorbeste in limba romana ar trebuie sa fie blocat pentru ca nu respecta reglementarile privind limba romana a acestei enciclopedii. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 07:14, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Bonaparte, you and Anittas spoke ROmanian on the English Wikipedia. ALthough you were banned, it was for other reasons (you used sockpuppets, which you're probably doing here as well). You can't ban somebody just because they "use the wrong language". --Node ue 19:05, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Daca nu vorbesti limba vei fi blocat pentru ca noi nu intelegem limba aia a ta. E aiurea tot ce vorbesti si habar nu ai de limba romana. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 19:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Node_ue, eu cred ca Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? are o idee nu chiar gresita. Adica "limba" aceea care tu o "vorbesti", si mai pretinzi ca se numeste moldoveneasca, e o aberatie totala. Eu sunt 99% sigur ca tu nici nu cunosti reguli de gramatica sau alte chestii necesare pentru a vorbi o limba, mai ales regulile asa numitei limbi moldovenensti. Aceste reguli pur si simplu NU EXISTA! Asa ca, te rog, sa nu mai scrii asa prostii pe WP. E insultator cind un strain, adica tu, imi spune mie, adica unui moldovean, ca el are alta limba decit romana, si ca ele sunt diferite s.a.m.d. --AndersoN 15:14, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- You have 0 authority to issue blocks. There is no rule that you must use one particular language on discussion pages. You and Anittas use Romanian at en.wp all the time, so stop harassing me. --Node ue 20:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Ai facut azi un vandalism asa ca sunt toate sansele sa scapam de tine. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 22:27, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- You have 0 authority to issue blocks. There is no rule that you must use one particular language on discussion pages. You and Anittas use Romanian at en.wp all the time, so stop harassing me. --Node ue 20:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV
Why does this page written solely in latin Romanian and even someone argues that English-speaking foreigners should get the hell away? It seems like some users are trying to pose this vote as an internal affair of Republica Moldova? In this case it is a brutal violation of NPOV principle.
This page must have four language versions: Cyrillic Romanian, Latin Romanian and English. And since the vast majority in Transnistria speaks Russian as an everyday language, the Russian version must be represented too, regardless of the point of view of the Republica Moldova citizens. – ru:Участник:Boleslav1
- Well, it's because you are on "Moldovan" wikipedia. Moldovan is or has been written using Latin and Cyrillic script, and noone until now (not even Node_ue) wrote any text here in cyrillic. I presume he will, no problem while it is in Moldovan/Romanian. And again, this is Moldovan wikipedia, so I don't see why Russian (or for that matter English) should be used. The Russians of Transnistria should for instance vote on a wikipedia in Russian using Latin script. But this another matter which I leave to you and them. Cheers.Dpotop 10:24, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Surely there is no need to litter the articles of this language section with Latin Romanian, Russian or English. But this page is not an article but a discussion. For example on Russian Wikipedia we accept writing english in discussion sections, some people hesitate to write in Russian because of a weak knowledge of language. And this discussion deals not only Moldovan/Romanian speaking people but everybody in MediaWiki. So there is absolutely ineligible to bar from the voting everyone who is not engaged with contribution on this language section. This question is not an internal affair of Moldova, Romania or Transnistria - it needs international solution not on the local level, but on the MediaWiki level. I vote for universal suffrage. Boleslav1
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- Слушайте, ну сколько вам можно повторять, здесь НЕ ВСЕ знают англиский! То что ты пишешь многие не понимают, как отвечать ? --Pavel 11:05, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Я тоже понимаю румынский только со словарём, которого у меня под рукой нет. Конечно, более целесообразно было бы писать на этой странице по-русски, потому как его понимают большинство жителей Молдавии.
- Не, это ты что серьёзно ? В Кишинэу еще хоть-куда а вне его, иди ищи кто знаеть русский, будет не легко. Лично мне очень трудно писать русскими буквами, а о других даже не говорю. --Pavel 11:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Однако в этом случае меня нарекут сталинистом, как тут очень часто происходит в спорах на страницах румынской вики. Но дело даже не в этом: кто-то руководствующийся шовинистическими принципами удалить целый языковой раздел.
- А ты прочитал что там написанно хоть ? 99% контента скатано с румынской wiki, причем не проблема написать скрипт который бы переводил автоматом страницы. Никто кроме одного юзера (который не знаеть язык) здесь ничего нового не писал. И с какой стати домейн mo. должен быть отведён для кириллицы ? --Pavel 11:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Мне, честно, этнический конфликт в Молдавии безразличен, но мне всё равно не нравится, что из-за него кто-то хочет удалять целый языковой раздел. Не нравится, и всё тут. У меня такое чувство, что этот языковой раздел является какой-то важной частью мирового порядка, и если его бездумно удалить, то очень скоро наступит Конец Света.
- Мда, приколист. --Pavel 11:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Поэтому к дискуссии следует подключить всю википедию, а так как она расположена на серверах в штате Флорида США, да и языком MediaWiki является английский, следует добиться того, чтобы голосовать имели право все активные участники проекта Википедиа, а не только его румыно-молдавского раздела. Boleslav1
- Но в этом случае, ты игнорируешь тех кто не знает англиский (хорошо, или вообще), тоесть жителей Молдовы. Больше я здесь не вижу смысла писать по русски, можешь ответить на своей странице, а то тут скоро кто-то и по китайски начнёт писать. --Pavel 11:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Я тоже понимаю румынский только со словарём, которого у меня под рукой нет. Конечно, более целесообразно было бы писать на этой странице по-русски, потому как его понимают большинство жителей Молдавии.
- To Boleslav: I hope it won't get as serious as the "real" Transnistrian deadlock. With useless international observers and the Russian army. :) More seriously, I understand your concerns. So, if you want a glimpse of what happens here, but in English, go to the en:Moldovan_language page. There, read the 10 or so talk archives, and you will see that what we are trying to solve here is a non-problem. Basically, there is one guy en:User:Node_ue (it has homonymous accounts on en.wiki, mo.wiki, and probably other) that pushes all alone the "Moldovan language" issue. He's not moldovan (doesn't even speak the language correctly), but he contributed something like >95% of mo.wiki by (sometimes incorrectly) transliterating pages from ro.wiki. I don't know why he is doing this, but he invests a lot of energy in it (he's either a monomaniac, or has a political agenda). His oppinions are considered outrageous by many Romanians, and plain false by actual Moldovans (I mean moldovans from Rep. of Moldova). Through his oppinions (which he professes quite alone on wikipedia) he provokes a lot of ethnic hate edits (of course there are also Romanian extremists), which he then exploits to push his agenda by appealing to the positive action mentality of most editors and admins (in time, I came to wonder whether he really is what he claims to be, or just pretends it in order to attract hate edits). What we are doing here is something that should never have been necessary. Basically, we are undoing the correct way the shit this guy created.Dpotop 11:17, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- I doubt if this question lies only in a person of Node_ue. There's an actual process of language segregation in Transnistria and a chauvinism of both sides in the conflict. Low number of editors in mo.wiki can be improved soon. It is not a big problem. --Boleslav1
- You should remember that the Transnistrian Moldovans don't want to write in Cyrillic. You know, there was a crisis in 2004 over the attempt of the authorities to close some Romanian language schools that taught in Latin script. BTW, so far, there were no Moldovan editors that wanted to write in Cyrillic. And the only Transnistrian Wikipedian that I know of on Wikipedia is en:User:EvilAlex and his opinion on this is rather clear. :-) Bogdan 11:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Let's ask Transnistrian Moldovans whether they want or don't want writing in Cyrillic. You cannot judge for all of them. --Boleslav1
- Of course, let's ask them. But where can we find those Transnistrian Moldovan editors? Bogdan 11:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- I wish they'll come. There are many small language sections in wiki with a few contributors. For example some minor languages in Russian Federation. --Boleslav1
- Exactly. So, before they come, do not take decisions in their name. When they come, let them create their wiki, if they want to. But don't create it because you feel like making some political agitation (which is exactly what Node_ue did).Dpotop 12:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- You may acknowledge existence of Moldavian English or you may not. The fact that there are people who insist positively on its existence and even more — do not recognize official decisions of Chişinău. --Boleslav1
- Кстати, Болеслав, у меня идея, давайте вы меня сделаете админом русской вики, и я начну переводить интерфейс в русский/translit с использованем архаизмов (если бы ты знал язык ты бы сильно смеялся над тем как "переведён" здесь интерфейс), начну катать странички один в один и переводить их в транслит, и буду добавлять бесмысленные слова утверждая что вы все националисты а это настоящие русские слова, вот именно это здесь и происходит. Причем ты не найдешь в интернете страничек с румынским на кириллике, а вот русского с транслитом в интернете уйма. --13:06, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Транслит возник из-за того, что не везде поддерживается русская раскладка клавиатуры. Здесь проблема сугубо идеологическая. --Boleslav1
- А я вижу тебе очень удобно не отвечать на вопросы, да ? --Pavel 13:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Про скрипт, который будет конвертировать содержимое ru.wiki в латиницу? А это идея. Мало ли, кому-нибудь может понадобиться. Если вы сделаете этот конвертор под GFDL, мы его потом используем в татарской википедии - там он очень будет нужен для обратного преобразования. Но здесь ведь проблема не только со шрифтом, но и некоторыми заимствованиями из русского языка. --Boleslav1
- Я не скрипт имел ввиду, я именно про дублирование интерфейса. Насчет "заимствованиями из русского языка" ты что ? Википедия это же энциклопедия, её _пишут_ а не говорят, если в Кишинэу некоторые и используют русские слова то что это имеет общего с энциклопедией, или может вы уже начали и маты вставлять в энциклопедии ??
- Про скрипт, который будет конвертировать содержимое ru.wiki в латиницу? А это идея. Мало ли, кому-нибудь может понадобиться. Если вы сделаете этот конвертор под GFDL, мы его потом используем в татарской википедии - там он очень будет нужен для обратного преобразования. Но здесь ведь проблема не только со шрифтом, но и некоторыми заимствованиями из русского языка. --Boleslav1
- А я вижу тебе очень удобно не отвечать на вопросы, да ? --Pavel 13:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Транслит возник из-за того, что не везде поддерживается русская раскладка клавиатуры. Здесь проблема сугубо идеологическая. --Boleslav1
- Кстати, Болеслав, у меня идея, давайте вы меня сделаете админом русской вики, и я начну переводить интерфейс в русский/translit с использованем архаизмов (если бы ты знал язык ты бы сильно смеялся над тем как "переведён" здесь интерфейс), начну катать странички один в один и переводить их в транслит, и буду добавлять бесмысленные слова утверждая что вы все националисты а это настоящие русские слова, вот именно это здесь и происходит. Причем ты не найдешь в интернете страничек с румынским на кириллике, а вот русского с транслитом в интернете уйма. --13:06, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- You may acknowledge existence of Moldavian English or you may not. The fact that there are people who insist positively on its existence and even more — do not recognize official decisions of Chişinău. --Boleslav1
- Exactly. So, before they come, do not take decisions in their name. When they come, let them create their wiki, if they want to. But don't create it because you feel like making some political agitation (which is exactly what Node_ue did).Dpotop 12:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- I wish they'll come. There are many small language sections in wiki with a few contributors. For example some minor languages in Russian Federation. --Boleslav1
- Of course, let's ask them. But where can we find those Transnistrian Moldovan editors? Bogdan 11:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Let's ask Transnistrian Moldovans whether they want or don't want writing in Cyrillic. You cannot judge for all of them. --Boleslav1
- You should remember that the Transnistrian Moldovans don't want to write in Cyrillic. You know, there was a crisis in 2004 over the attempt of the authorities to close some Romanian language schools that taught in Latin script. BTW, so far, there were no Moldovan editors that wanted to write in Cyrillic. And the only Transnistrian Wikipedian that I know of on Wikipedia is en:User:EvilAlex and his opinion on this is rather clear. :-) Bogdan 11:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- I doubt if this question lies only in a person of Node_ue. There's an actual process of language segregation in Transnistria and a chauvinism of both sides in the conflict. Low number of editors in mo.wiki can be improved soon. It is not a big problem. --Boleslav1
- Слушайте, ну сколько вам можно повторять, здесь НЕ ВСЕ знают англиский! То что ты пишешь многие не понимают, как отвечать ? --Pavel 11:05, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
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Википедия должна быть на культурном языке, заимствованых слов в молдавском ровно столько-же сколько и в румынском. --Pavel 13:33, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
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- The "people" are one (Node_ue). Do you say that I could ask (on my own) the creation of a Latin script Russian wikipedia? Dpotop 12:55, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Of course, if you suggest having a translation between the four versions, and if you volunteer translating this page in the four versions you proposed, feel free to do it (I speak here for myself, you might get into trouble with some other people here). You must understand that people on this page, even if of English, Russian, Moldovan, or Romanian ancestry share the knowledge of Moldovan (Romanian). This is why an elaborate translation process is not necessary to them.Dpotop 10:24, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't see why some people require this vote to be open to other speakers than Moldovan, be it in Latin script or Cyrillic. The decision belongs to those people for whom this Wikipedia actually matters. If potential contributors want to have a Cyrillic Moldovan Wikipedia, fine. If there is no one who wants such a project, fine. For God's sake, let them decide!
But whether or not there are people wishing to contribute in Cyrillic Moldovan one thing is clear: domain mo.wikipedia is not it. MO stands for Moldovan, and as far as I know Moldovan official language is Latin script Moldovan. Call Cyrillic Moldovan whatever else you want and have your project there. Copy and transliterate as many ro.wp articles as you want, it's free. --AdiJapan 12:38, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Moldova is not a unite country and some part of it do not recognize the decisions of RM, naming itself Приднестровская Молдавская Республика. It lacks international recognition, but listen: Moldova disavowing from independence of its national language, but Transnistria do not. There is no Moldavian language by the version of Republica Moldova, but it exists by the version of Transnistria. So Republica Moldova disavowed from Moldavian language but still tries to control the domain name for it in Wikipedia! And tells everyone "For God's sake, let
themus decide"! I insist in the interference of the whole Wiki community in this question, because we have pure arbitrariness here! --Boleslav1 - Constitutia Republicii Moldova
Articolul 1
Statul Republica Moldova
(1) Republica Moldova este un stat suveran si independent, unitar si indivizibil.
Articolul 2
Suveranitatea si puterea de stat
(1) Suveranitatea nationala apartine poporului Republicii Moldova, care o exercita in mod direct si prin organele sale reprezentative, in formele stabilite de Constitutie.
Articolul 13
Limba de stat, functionarea celorlalte limbi
(1) Limba de stat a Republicii Moldova este limba moldoveneasca, functionind pe baza grafiei latine. --Pavel 13:17, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- But this quasi-Limba moldoveneasca is being regulated from Bucharest! --Boleslav1
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- Гы, это ты о чём вообще, что-то тебя в стороны понесло ? To odno govorish, to drugoe, vrode kak tolko-4to govoril 4to moldova otkazalas' ot moldvaskogo, tolko ia tebe pokazal constitutziu uje niznaiu otkuda bucuresti poiavilsea iz tvoih ust.--Pavel 13:43, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cum va fi aplicat rezultatul votului?
Salut, cred ca o intrebare extrem de importanta a lui en:User:Oleg_Alexandrov a ramas fara raspuns. De fapt, asta e cea mai importanta problema pe mo.wiki. Cine are autoritatea sa aplice solutia adoptata? Dpotop 12:30, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
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- După terminarea votului, vom cere toţi sa fie verificaţi la sockpuppetry, şi vom verifica numărul de contribuţii. La fel se va crea o pagină separată unde vom verifica autentificitatea ficărui utilizator, nu se va face de mine, ci de toţi. După ce am stabilit un rezultat final, rezultate vor fi publicate pe Village Pump, şi apoi pe meta, în cazul cand la prima întrebare se votează Pro şi la a doua tot Pro, datele acestea vor fi prezentate direct unuia din developeri (care anterior au cerut să fie organizat un vot şi ei să vadă ca există consens în privinţa unei mutări mo->mo-cyr), dacă se votează Contra la prima întrebare, se pune o cerere pentru deletarea wikipediei date pe meta. --Pavel 12:42, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- That won't make the results valid or applicable. There's still the problem that you are restricting who may vote by xenophobic discrimination. --Node ue 20:24, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- Cred ca Pavel e spus foarte bine. Eu il sustin 100%. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 17:57, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- După terminarea votului, vom cere toţi sa fie verificaţi la sockpuppetry, şi vom verifica numărul de contribuţii. La fel se va crea o pagină separată unde vom verifica autentificitatea ficărui utilizator, nu se va face de mine, ci de toţi. După ce am stabilit un rezultat final, rezultate vor fi publicate pe Village Pump, şi apoi pe meta, în cazul cand la prima întrebare se votează Pro şi la a doua tot Pro, datele acestea vor fi prezentate direct unuia din developeri (care anterior au cerut să fie organizat un vot şi ei să vadă ca există consens în privinţa unei mutări mo->mo-cyr), dacă se votează Contra la prima întrebare, se pune o cerere pentru deletarea wikipediei date pe meta. --Pavel 12:42, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Eu cred ca aceasta incercare nu va aduce nicaieri. Va fi foarte greu de inchis acest proiect. Ce se incearca acum a fost incercat cu cateva luni in urma, si fara success. en:Oleg Alexandrov (en:talk) 21:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Valabilitatea acestor "alegeri"
- Dragi prieteni din tabere diferite!
- Cu trei editari nu cred ca sunt competent pentru a vota pro sau contra "deletarea wikipediei". Conform statutelor fondaţiei WikiMedia nu există o asemenea posibilitate care de fapt contravine şi principilor GNU. Probabil există doar posibilitatea blocării bazei de date. Vezi 1 pentru exemple similare.
- Se are în vedere închiderea. --Pavel 16:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- [[:mo:]] conţine 401 de articole, majoritatea titlurilor sunt în chirilice. Probabilitatea de a delata un proiect care a ajuns în esemenea stadiu este minimală.
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- Degraba se va închide o encliclopedie cu 3000 articole. --Pavel 16:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Ultimele comentarii aici şi la en: le-am citit cu luni în urmă. Cred că de atunci discuţiile nu au devenit mai constructive. Este periculos de a emotionaliza o asemenea tematică care la sfârşit nu aduce la nici un alt rezulat în afară de dezilusionare.
- 2 conţine lista proiectelor fondaţiei. Unele nu au activitate şi singurii contribuitori sunt vandalii şi voluntari ca Kork, Hégésippe, Miaow_Miaow, Node ue, Zigger şi alţii care le combat. Situaţia la proiectele înrudite este mult mai precară.
- Un proiect care este deactivat acum poate fi reactivat (eventual sub alt prefix / subdomeniu) într-un timp record. Ce am căştigat cu aceste alegeri? Nimeni nu va interzice crearea unui proiect pentru o limba scrisă intr-un alphabet sau altul.
- Precum poţi vedea şi mai sus majoritatea considera ok să existe o enciclopedie in chirilică, problema este cine va lucra la ea ? Trebuie sa fie neaparat cineva care ştie limba. --Pavel 16:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Modul în care sunt efectuate aceste "alegiri" va produce o solidarizare şi va arunca o pată pe ro:. Daca cineva doreşte să colaboreze la un anumit proiect nu există nicăieri obligaţia de a documenta cunoaşterea limbii. 3 conţine după părerea mea greşeli minimale.
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- Interesanta parere ai, hai să comparăm:
- O-Zone еште о груп де музикэ поп компусэ дын Дан Бэлан, Раду Сырбу ши Арсене Тодераш. Ей сау лансат ын Ромыня, деши провин дын Молдова. Група кынтэ музикэ данче ши а лансат кытева мелодий каре ау ажунс пе примул лок ын топуриле молдовеняшты. Ла ун ан де ла лансаря мелодей Драгостя Дын Тей ын Молдова, мелодя а девенит куноскутэ ын Еўропа, унде а ажунс пе примул лок ын топуриле дын цары ка Ромыня, Ӂерманя, Италя, Спаня, саў Оланда.
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- şi acum ro.wikipedia:
- O-Zone este o formaţie de muzică pop compusă din Dan Bălan, Radu Sârbu şi Arsenie Toderaş. Ei s-au lansat în România, deşi provin din Republica Moldova. Formaţia cântă muzică dance şi a lansat câteva melodii care au ajuns pe primul loc în topurile româneşti şi moldoveneşti. La un an de la lansarea melodiei Dragostea Din Tei în România, melodia a devenit cunoscută în Europa, unde a ajuns pe primul loc în topurile din ţări ca Germania, Italia, Spania sau Olanda.
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- Acum lamureşte-mi te rog de când în moldovenească "grup" e trupă/formaţie (plus nici nu e corect gramatical "o grup", pur şi simplu s-a înlocuit special cică sa fie diferenţe), de când se scrie "eşte", "dîn", "sau" în loc de "s-au", "moldoveneştî", etc..
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- Acum hai sa folosim scriptul lui Bogdan pe ro.wiki/O-Zone:
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- O-Зoнe eстe o фopмaциe дe муэикэ пoп кoмпусэ дин Дaн Бэлaн, Paду Cыpбу ши Apсeниe Тoдepaш. Eи с-aу лaнсaт ын Poмыниa, дeши пpoвин дин Peпубликa Мoлдoвa. Фopмaциa кынтэ муэикэ дaнчe ши a лaнсaт кытeвa мeлoдий кape aу aжунс пe пpимул лoк ын тoпуpилe poмынeшти ши мoлдoвeнeшти. Лa ун aн дe лa лaнсapя мeлoдиeй Дpaгoстя Дин Тeй ын Poмыниa, мeлoдьa a дeвeнит кунoскутэ ын Eуpoпa, ундe a aжунс пe пpимул лoк ын тoпуpилe дин цэpи кa Gepмaниa, Iтaлиa, Cпaниa сaу Oлaндa.
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- Sunt câteva probleme cu terminaţiile, dar şi cu acestea se rezolva dacă e nevoie (bogdan a scris scriptul in timp foarte scurt). Acum numără greşelile in versiune de pe mo. şi în cea translată automat. Ce concluzie se poate face ? --Pavel 16:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- În alte Wichipedii limba / graiul / ortografia acestui articol nu ar fi fost schimbată. Ar fi mult mai folositor daca contribuitorii activi şi interesaţi în dezvoltarea proiectului de faţă şi-ar exprima opiniile aici asupra existenţei subdomeniului şi a variantelor alfabetice folosite.
- Faptul ca limba româna a fost scrisă cu litere chirilice în secolul trecut şi că această scriere este folosita şi acum de o minoritate este o realitatea istorică. Prietenul meu din copilărie nu a putut citii scrisorile pe care le primise de la bunica lui din Chişinău deoarece bunica a fost forţata să scrie cu litere chirilice. Faptul ca mentionez acest detaliu nu este o justificare a nedreptăţii. Există motive deiverse pentru a folosii o scriere sau alta. La un moment dat fiecare persoana are dreptul să decidă în ce limba şi în ce scriere doreşte să citeasca o informaţie. Acest drept nu stă la dispoziţie şi persoanele care însinueaza / sugerează contrariul vor eşua în faţa "board"'ului fondaţiei.
- După încheierea perioadei de vot se va pune întrebarea cine (ce tabără) a formulat votul, dacă au fost conduse negochieri sau nu, dacă au fost prezentate toate obţiunile propuse, dacă formularea a fost echilibrată, tolerantă, imparţială etc. dacă interesele ambelor tabere au fost incluse în subiectul voturilor / alegerilor sau nu. Personal nu cred ca votul în versiunea actuală va înfluenţa "board"'ul în direcţia exprimată aici până acum.
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- Eu nu înţeleg cine sunt "taberele" eu văd numai pe Node_ue aici, cam asta e. --Pavel 16:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Programul in 5 puncte pt solutionarea situatiei
Deoarece am remarcat ca exista anumite aspecte neclare referitoare la situatia de facto a limbii moldovenesti si a necesitatii mo.wiki, ma vad silit sa clarific problema prezentand un amplu program in 5 puncte.
- 1. Nu exista o limba moldoveneasca.
- 2. Cine nu e de accord cu pct. #1, este fie rus fie consumator inflacarat de vodca (adica tot...).
- 3. Etic ar fi ca toate comentariile de pe aceasta pagina sa fie formulate in romana.
- 4. Toti votantii trebuie sa fie buni cunoscatori ai limbii romane (sa aiba, in acest sens, cel putin un articol consistent la activ).
- 5. In sprijinul mentinerii caracterelor chirilice nu apare nici un argument. Nu e alfabet oficial pe nicaieri (nici Ro, nici... Mo), iar daca isi prezinta careva fetisimul pt chirilice e liber sa si-l cultive separat. Caci, caractere chirilice pe ro.wiki ar fi deopotriva jignitor si penibil, iar pe mo.wiki ar fi, ce-i drept, doar imbecil (si colaborationist cu rusii!, dar asta nici nu mai spun).
--Ditae spune ca mo.wiki nu trebuie sa existe. 02:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Corect spus Ditae. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 06:35, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- E necesar de mentinut concluzii (si unele comentarii importante) in limba engleza, caci cei de la Wikimedia sau Bugzilla vor accesa pagina data, nu vor intelege nimic, si vor da dreptate lui Node. --Landroni 11:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] It seems that we have the same kind of problem...
Hello, I am Milos from Serbian Wikipedia. --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I would ask you to convert your talk into English, so more people can participate in talk. I was reading your talk in English and Russian (but I don't think that a lot of people can read talk in Russian)... --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
In this matter I am completely outsider and I understand that one outsider can talk here only as someone who has enough good faith to help in solving problem, not as a person who would say that you should do something. --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Also, I want to say that Mark is working here with a lot of good faith, but he is young and he doesn't see that people can see his work as offensive toward their language/culture. --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Someone suggested that Moldovan Wikipeida in Cyrillic alphabet should be renamed as 'mo-cyr.wikipedia'. I think that it would solve some problems... (I am not completely sure what exactly is the point of this voting.) --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
As Serbian language has four standard variants, we made some software which tranliterate Serbian variants between each other. In this moment, software is implemented only on Wikimedia Serbia and Montenegro site. In the next couple of weeks we would implement it on Serbian Wikipedia, too. (Like Chinese did it.) --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I think that it is possible to do the same for Moldovan (Cyrillic) <-> Romanian (Latin). And I think that there is a lot of sense to start with doing that. This is not only our problem, but a lot of languages have the same one. Do you have some expirienced PHP programmer? Some linguist who is well introduced in differences between Cyrillic and Latin orthographies? --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
And I have one more suggestion. You can do something like: (1) there would be two "article tabs"; (2) the first one would be in Romanian from the database of Romanian Wikipedia; (3) the second one would be in Cyrillics; (4) for the first time, two variants would not be transliterated, but there would be just two versions of the same article; (5) when we make a software for transliteration, two articles would be merged and when someone writes in Latin orthograpy the same text would be visible from Cyrillic interface (in Cyrillic); (6) Until that, people should be able to choose between Latin and Cyrillic interface (it is possible; like I can choose now, for example, English or Serbian interface on Moldovan Wikipedia). --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Millosh, the problem is that nobody wants the Cyrillic variant. Really, we have yet to find one Moldovan that thinks that a different wikipedia is a good idea. This wiki has been since the beginning a pet-project of Node_ue and 99% of the articles are transliterations of articles from Romanian wiki. Bogdan 09:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Nobody? Dmitriid agreed it might be useful. Oleg Alexandrov, unlike you lot of Romanians and unpatriotic Moldovans, seems to think that it would be a good idea if it had more people to work on it, although the potential userbase is small. What counts is that some people still use Cyrillic. --Node ue 19:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
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- I guess you are referring to this. Well, I am not really enthusiastic about the project. I just expressed doubts that too few people will contribute. And I still think the same. I doubt this project will go anywhere. en:Oleg Alexandrov (en:talk) 21:45, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
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What do you think about that? --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 04:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Mai intai sa vorbesti in romana si tu si nodu. Pe urma mai vorbim. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 06:44, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Milos, please ignore Bonaparte. He was banned on the English Wikipedia because he used sockpuppets to influence the outcomes of RfA and edit wars. --Node ue 19:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Node ue nu stie limba romana. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 19:53, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Milos, please ignore Bonaparte. He was banned on the English Wikipedia because he used sockpuppets to influence the outcomes of RfA and edit wars. --Node ue 19:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
First of all, I want to say that you should solve the problem without outsiders (to be strict, I think that Moldovans should decide what do they want, but I think that Moldovans and Romanians think the same about this issue). In other words, I just want to help, not to decide for you. --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 01:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
(Bonaparte, I don't know Romanian...) --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 01:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
What do you think about the same proposal but just for Romanian Wikipedia? So, people who know (or people who prefer) Cyrillic alphabet and orthography can use it on Romanian Wikipedia? --millosh (discuţii | дискуций (sr:)) 01:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Daca ar fi posibila permisiunea adaugarii articolelor scrise in chirilica la ro.wikipedia, fara nici un fel de separare pe subdomenii sau judete, userul care doreste sa foloseasca chirilica ar putea avea un control de calitate. Va aduc aminte ca intre 1944 si 1989, in RSS Moldoveneasca s-a scris cu chirilic, dar nu se considera ca ar fi fost altceva decat romana. --Vasile 01:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ethical question
Dear all, it seems to me that we should prepare a short, but comprehensive argument that will be presented to the wikipedia board along with the election results. I believe that the main argument for our position is ethical: Should one person (Node_ue) that is not moldovan be allowed to create the moldovan wikipedia all by himself, even if it is obvious that this is a political statement and that Moldovans do not sustain him?. Around this, we should add information about his knowledge of Moldovan, about how much of the Moldovan wikipedia he created, about how many other Moldovans help him or do not help him, etc. User:Dpotop
- Alone? I'm not even the most active contributor for a long time now. --Node ue 20:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Мнение большинства лингвистов что "Молдавский" это и есть Румынский. Придурковато иметь 2 проекта для такого же языка. Однако, если Молдавский/Румынский использует Кириллицу в Приднестровье, то должен быть вариант на Кириллице. Я думаю что вариант 2 самый лучший. К сожалению, мне нельзя голосовать. en:Izehar (en:talk) 16:43, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Sorry, Izehar, but why do you say it cannot be voted?Dpotop 11:22, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Izehar :) ai putea sa vorbesti pe romana? Shalom. Peace. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 16:58, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Why should he, Bonaparte? All Moldovans have some command of Russian.
- Well, having some command of Russian is not enough for a debate. Look: oou have some command of Romanian and it's still not enough. :-) Bogdan 20:53, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- If they can't read it, they are probably sitting in an Internet Café right next to somebody who can!! And if not that, it would still be easy to locate someone to explain. I, for example, can just ask my parents -- even though I only know a little bit of Russian, my parents, being Moldovans from Soviet-era Chisinau, know it well. Speaking in Russian is a way to exclude Romanians, and it seems to've worked. --Node ue 19:47, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Tu sa vorbesti pe romana ca altii nu inteleg ce spui tu. Ai atata respect? Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 19:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- You were blocked on the English Wikipedia for malicious sockpuppetry. You have decided now to come troll in this Wikipedia. Bye-bye. --Node ue 20:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Tu sa vorbesti pe romana ca altii nu inteleg ce spui tu. Ai atata respect? Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 19:50, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Why should he, Bonaparte? All Moldovans have some command of Russian.
- Izehar :) ai putea sa vorbesti pe romana? Shalom. Peace. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 16:58, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
מרק, בונפרטה טרול. אל תאכילו אל הטרול Izehar 19:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Haha Izehar, ma faci sa rad. Poate ai vrut sa spui ca "מרק, Izehar+Node טרול. אל תאכילו אל הטרול". Oricum termina cu chestiile astea ca ma faci sa rad. Te ocupi de chestii urate, nu, nu sunt eu trol poate tu si cu nodu da. Dar voi nu stiti romana asa ca, la revedere. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 20:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Haha! It's hard, though. --Node ue 20:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Daca tu afirmi ca Bonaparte e troll - demonstreaza. Avand in vedere ca votul ii implica in mod strict DOAR pe vorbitorii de limba romana, nu exista nici un motiv pentru care injuriile aberante si delirul comunistoid in care Node pluteste sa continue sa fie tolerate. Iar prin comentariile halucinante acest utilizator nu reuseste decat sa demonstreze imbecilitatea patologica de sorginte sovietica. In alta ordine de idei, anumiti utilizatori straini sugereaza, iarasi atingand culmile penibilului, ca activitatea de pe aceasta wikipedia muribunda sa se desfasoare in n'spe mii de limbi. Nu cred ca pe en.wiki se vorbeste (scrie) in aramaica sau sanscrita. Asa ca nici aici nu e loc pt rusa (!!!) sau alte graiuri. Alfabetul chirilic nu are nici un pilon de sustinere in ecuatia discutiei noastre asa ca trebuie eliminat ca optiune reala. Cat despre montruozitatea debitata de pseudo-moldoveanul-fugit-in sua-descendent-din parinti-moldovo-sovietici (+inca ceva ce ma abtin sa afirm, dar in care cred ca cu tarie!) care s-a intors pe plaiurile virtuale ale patriei mume sa faca ordine printre razesii inapoiati, nu am de facut decat comentarii cenzurabile... Iar pentru infama constructie frazeologica "Speaking in Russian is a way to exclude Romanians, and it seems to've worked." am pregatit, special si doar pentru tine, o serie de cuvinte simple, scurte (majoritatea din 4-5 litere), care incep invariabil cu f, p, ori, in anumite cazuri, m. PS: Cu dedicatie din partea subsemnatului, iti recomand, cu o caldura rar intalnita, sa savurezi celebra poveste a coregionalului tau Ion Creanga, Povestea P... ovestilor. Bon appetite! --Ditae spune ca mo.wiki nu trebuie sa existe. 22:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Мы не должны забыть что правительство Молдавии говорит что Молдавский язык существует. Это очень важно - оно не если идея Молдавский язык приходит от воображения Node. В Приднестровье Молдавский язык существует и использует Кириллицу. Мы должны последовать за румынским POV и сказать что все доказательство не существует? Izehar 23:19, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- De ce numai POV-ul Românesc ? :) Majoritatea locuitorulor Moldovei (şi în special tineretul) la intrebarea ce limbă vorbesc îţi vor răspunde cu siguranţă: română, nu uita ca ea şi este limba pe care noi o învăţăm la şcoală. --Pavel 23:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- Почему только румынский POV ? :) Большинство жителей Молдовы (и в особенности молодёжь) на вопрос на каком языке они говорят ответят тебе с уверенностью: румынский, не забывай это и есть язык который мы учим в школе, он так и называется. --Pavel 23:52, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
- И в Приднестровье? Izehar 00:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- Acolo aproape toţi vorbesc în rusă. Там почти все на русском общаются. --Pavel 00:08, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- Moldoveneasca (Transnistria) ar avea nevoie de o gramatica. Ma mir ca nu s-a oferit inca nici un savant sa ajute la producerea ei. In 1944, URSS nu a schimbat gramatica romanei din RSS Moldoveneasca, asa ca moldoveneasca tot limba romana a ramas. Calitatea invatamantului moldovenesc (chirilica) este atat de proasta, incat nu se pot intelege intre ei folosind limba invatata la scoala, asa ca folosesc rusa. Prin natura sa, wikipedia nu poate crea stiinta, doar scrie despre stiinta. --Vasile 01:00, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- Оспорено существует ли Молдавский язык. Правительство Молдавии говорит оно существует и румыны говорят оно не существует. Izehar 00:09, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- Академия наук молдовы говорит что не существует, ну и ? --Pavel 00:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- Реально? Я не знал то. Мы обсуждаем здесь должен ли проект :mo существовать. Мы не предположены, что отвечаем если Молдавский язык существует. Я имею сказано мое мнение. Оно должен быть соединен с проектом :ro. Если Node хочет проект на Кириллице для Молдавский в Приднестровье, то он должен мочь иметь одно на :mo-cy или что-то подобное. Izehar 00:22, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Dear Izehar, the question here is not whether the moldovan language exists. The question is whether Node_ue should be entitled to hijack the moldovan wikipedia to push a political agenda that no actual moldovan of my knowledge (on wiki and elsewhere) endorses. I still have to see such a moldovan, for Node_ue is certainly not one. You correctly noted that the only acceptable justification for a cyrillic moldovan wikipedia is that it may be used by moldovans in Transnistria. However:
- I still have to see one true ethnic moldovan asking for such a wiki.
- There is the problem of Transnistrian government brakdown on Latin script, which the moldovan population there obviously wants. Support to the existence of the cyrillic moldovan wiki is support to the russian-supported anti-moldovan authorities of Transnistria. Dpotop 11:22, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- I also have to say that I am puzzled by your support to Node_ue. You participated in the disputes of en.wiki, and you certainly came to understand the issues here. Dpotop 11:22, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- OK, that's a downright lie. Dmitriid, Vertaler, Elnoel, all perfectly good Moldovans, expressed support for this site. --Node ue 16:38, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- Please see this related to the perfectly good "Moldovans". Bogdan 18:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- The co-contributors mentioned by Node finally realized he's a fraud:
- Dmitriid: last contrib: 1 July 2005 (after this, only user talk, last on 1 Nov 2005).
- Vertaler: 12 contribs, last one on 18 April 2005
- Elnoel: no contrib (maybe you misspelled the name) [User:Dpotop]
- The co-contributors mentioned by Node finally realized he's a fraud:
- Please see this related to the perfectly good "Moldovans". Bogdan 18:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- I don't think it makes any difference. The Cornish Wikipedia is maintained almost exclusively by a Canadian who can speak the language at kw-2. There are no other speakers on Wikipedia, as this "language" is a revived extinct language spoken fluently by about 300 people. Transnistria has a population of 555,500, with about 32% being ethnic Moldovans, whose mother tongue is Moldovan and who in public learn and write it in the Cyrillic alphabet. Moldovan in the Cyrillic script is one of the official languages of that region/country. I think that, in itself, provides for the separate existence of a "Moldovan in Cyrillic" Wikipedia. Izehar 19:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- I presume there is no people actually hurt by this Cornish wikipedia (given that the language is extinct and the guys speaking it do this as a hobby). The Moldovan wiki goes against the will of all Moldovans on wiki. It only perpetuates the Russian and Soviet discrimination of Moldovans, and their ethnic engineering practices.User:Dpotop
- I repeat myself and others in reminding you that the Transnistrians try to switch to Latin. Also, I remind you that Cyrillic transliteration is an option in this vote, a possible option.User:Dpotop
- And again, Izehar, why do you do this? You are a smart guy, you certainly know right from wrong in such a clear-cut case. User:Dpotop
- OK, that's a downright lie. Dmitriid, Vertaler, Elnoel, all perfectly good Moldovans, expressed support for this site. --Node ue 16:38, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Because it appears sensible. There is also a Wikipedia for the so-called en:Scots language: [1]. Everyone, except a few people in Scotland say it is an English dialect. I find the existence of that Wikipedia most annoying, but it's something I'll just have to live with. Do you have any proof that the Transnistrians do not want the Cyrillic alphabet? Also, I did say earlier that I support option 2 above. If a "Moldovan in Cyrillic" for the Transnistrians is to exist, it should be at :mo-cyr or something similar. Saying that a Moldovan in Cyrillic Wikipedia should not exist because some Romanians and Moldovans may find it offensive seems absurd to me. I'm not going the mention the oxymoron of having a Serbian Wikipedia, a Croatian Wikipedia and a Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia, I'll stick with the Scots phenomenon. Izehar 21:04, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- But as you noted for the Scots wiki, there are some users claiming to be Scots, a minority whose rights may need protection. As for now, there is no user claiming to be Moldovan and asking for a cyrillic mo-cyr.wiki. When such a user presents himself, he, or she, should be entitled to create or maintain the domain mo-cyr (as you suggested). This is something I find sensible. My point is that Node_ue is not moldovan, he just makes a political statement that hurts the feelings of every moldovan (and romanian) here. If you want a comparison, I have the perfect one: Negationists (of the Holocaust) do exist in the world. However, their oppinions are not accepted on serious sites such as wikipedia (or are rapidely deleted) because their only goal is spreading ethnic hate. What Node_ue does is identical, if only in the less known Moldovan context. And Node_ue helps no minority present on wikipedia. Dpotop 22:16, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- I claim to be a Moldovan. My parents are from that country of Moldova, and I have that blood of my ancestors running in my veins, so I am Moldovan ,and you are not. I admit I have a poor control of our language, but please, find me a Jewish guy who will say the holocaust never happened. I am Moldovan, I speak the Moldovan language as my mother tongue (although unfortunately I have lost quite a bit of it), the nation of Moldova was founded by the blood of my ancestors, who were repressed by Turks, Wallachians, Russians, but in the end have finally prevailed. Do not presume to speak for the Moldovan people. Do not say we are not spoken for when we are. Unpatriotic apologists like Pavel have as their greatest wish of all, that they were born in Romania, and they like to pretend they are Transylvanians, because they think that by emulating Transylvanians, they will suddenly become wealthy. Your politicians and youir historicqal ties have forced us to abandon the beautiful Moldovan literary language in favour of your ugly Wallachian writing. I do not agree with the things Transnistria has done but I know for a fact that many of our brethren in Transnistria use this alphabet, and that young Moldovans in the province still learn it at school. You say they don't want to, but even now that Latin schools were re-opened, their enrollment has never been a majority of Moldovans in the region. Maybe a few thousand kids go to Latin schools, but over ten thousand go to Cyrillic school last time I looked. Wikipedia is a bout distributing knowledge. You and your anti-Wikilove buddies have trtied to violate a "live and let live" policy by insisting that the mere existence of an encyclopaedia in Cyrillic somehow harms you. It does not. It hurts noöne, and it has the potential to help people. So scatter yourselves back in your own Wikipedia. --Node ue 11:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
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- An ad-hominem comment by Anittas has been censored here. Dpotop 16:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
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- You are a smart troll, period. A troll who is posing as a Jew and a Gay to attract positive-action-like actions from other wikipedia editors. I looked into your edits, and it seems that you are claiming your jewness only when pushing your "moldovanist" agenda. Nationality, sexual orientation and age shouldn't count on wikipedia. What makes me angry is that you are deceiving people, and pushing them into saying stupid things in a deliberate way. You are using all the tricks of a communist propagandist here, on wikipedia, a place where we should help each other understand the truth without malice. You are only malice, and deceit. This is what makes me angry, the fact that you are the only person here I was not able to find a common ground. I am Romanian (more Moldovan than you, by ancestry, and by all measures) and I am nationalist. I have had discussions with Russians, Hungarians, Ukrainians (neighbors, whose nationalism is necessarily opposed to mine) but always managed to reach a reasonable, mutually-accepted understanding of the reality. I have contributed info on the Holocaust. And I have learned a lot, from all the people I have interacted (including you). But you, on the contrary, only try to push your political agenda. You are as moldovan as my "Made in China" trashcan.Dpotop 13:09, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
- "Posing as a Jew and a Gay to attract positive-action-like actions from other Wikipedia editors"? I didn't mention any of those here to gain posiitve actions because I'm guessing most voters here are Eastern Orthodox and that would confuse the situation more with potentially hate speech as well. If you think nationality, sexual orientation and age shouldn't count on Wikipedia, why is it so important to you to say that "Node isn't Moldovan"? Why don't you tell Bonaparte and Anittas they shouldn't count? Really, if I used the tricks of a communist propagandist, lots more people would be agreeing with me. I haven't made posters saying "THE EVIL COMMUNISTS WANT YOU TO USE LATIN! BE A GOOD MOLDOVAN, USE CYRILLIC" or things like that. --Node ue 02:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- And again, your mo.wiki has as much a right to exist as the negationist theories. There are things that are not justifiable, things that cannot be accepted in a civilized world. Dpotop 13:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
- We've already discussed this, and you have shown a complete failure to understand that people actually use Cyrillic. --Node ue 02:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
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- I claim to be a Moldovan. My parents are from that country of Moldova, and I have that blood of my ancestors running in my veins, so I am Moldovan ,and you are not. I admit I have a poor control of our language, but please, find me a Jewish guy who will say the holocaust never happened. I am Moldovan, I speak the Moldovan language as my mother tongue (although unfortunately I have lost quite a bit of it), the nation of Moldova was founded by the blood of my ancestors, who were repressed by Turks, Wallachians, Russians, but in the end have finally prevailed. Do not presume to speak for the Moldovan people. Do not say we are not spoken for when we are. Unpatriotic apologists like Pavel have as their greatest wish of all, that they were born in Romania, and they like to pretend they are Transylvanians, because they think that by emulating Transylvanians, they will suddenly become wealthy. Your politicians and youir historicqal ties have forced us to abandon the beautiful Moldovan literary language in favour of your ugly Wallachian writing. I do not agree with the things Transnistria has done but I know for a fact that many of our brethren in Transnistria use this alphabet, and that young Moldovans in the province still learn it at school. You say they don't want to, but even now that Latin schools were re-opened, their enrollment has never been a majority of Moldovans in the region. Maybe a few thousand kids go to Latin schools, but over ten thousand go to Cyrillic school last time I looked. Wikipedia is a bout distributing knowledge. You and your anti-Wikilove buddies have trtied to violate a "live and let live" policy by insisting that the mere existence of an encyclopaedia in Cyrillic somehow harms you. It does not. It hurts noöne, and it has the potential to help people. So scatter yourselves back in your own Wikipedia. --Node ue 11:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
- But as you noted for the Scots wiki, there are some users claiming to be Scots, a minority whose rights may need protection. As for now, there is no user claiming to be Moldovan and asking for a cyrillic mo-cyr.wiki. When such a user presents himself, he, or she, should be entitled to create or maintain the domain mo-cyr (as you suggested). This is something I find sensible. My point is that Node_ue is not moldovan, he just makes a political statement that hurts the feelings of every moldovan (and romanian) here. If you want a comparison, I have the perfect one: Negationists (of the Holocaust) do exist in the world. However, their oppinions are not accepted on serious sites such as wikipedia (or are rapidely deleted) because their only goal is spreading ethnic hate. What Node_ue does is identical, if only in the less known Moldovan context. And Node_ue helps no minority present on wikipedia. Dpotop 22:16, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- Because it appears sensible. There is also a Wikipedia for the so-called en:Scots language: [1]. Everyone, except a few people in Scotland say it is an English dialect. I find the existence of that Wikipedia most annoying, but it's something I'll just have to live with. Do you have any proof that the Transnistrians do not want the Cyrillic alphabet? Also, I did say earlier that I support option 2 above. If a "Moldovan in Cyrillic" for the Transnistrians is to exist, it should be at :mo-cyr or something similar. Saying that a Moldovan in Cyrillic Wikipedia should not exist because some Romanians and Moldovans may find it offensive seems absurd to me. I'm not going the mention the oxymoron of having a Serbian Wikipedia, a Croatian Wikipedia and a Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia, I'll stick with the Scots phenomenon. Izehar 21:04, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- In scolile zis moldovenesti din Transnistria nu se invata moldoveneste. Sunt sigur ca politrucii de la Chisinau sau Moscova (Snegur, Luchinski, Voronin) cunoasc mai mult despre felul in care se invata acolo moldoveneste inainte de 1989. Si motivele pentru care nu se invata limba corecta. De asemenea, este cunoscut nivelul extrem de scazut de cunoastere a limbii de catre fostii deputati moldoveni din Transnistria dinainte de separare. Oameni politici care nu erau prosti (cum nici user Node probabil ca nu este) dar necunoasterea corecta a limbii ii punea intr-o clara pozitie de inferioritate politica fata de cei care cunoasteau. Limba intesata de erori gramaticale si cu un vocabular bizar putea fi cat de cat mascata prin alfabetul chirilic. Ceea ce vreti, Izehar si Node, sa faceti nu este de fapt comparabil cu Cornish wikipedia, ci cu o user En-3 wikipedia. --Vasile 20:51, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
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"Your politicians and youir historicqal ties have forced us to abandon the beautiful Moldovan literary language in favour of your ugly Wallachian writing." This is, by far, the funniest thing I have ever heard.--R.S. 15:30, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Linguistic cleansing
An anonymous post on this page added some very interesting links on Linguistic Cleansing in Transnistria as a cause of people still learning Moldovan using cyrillic script. I reproduce the post (a replica of it exists in the Jmabel section, but I believe it deserves more attention): User:Dpotop
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- Yeah, they do "use" the Russian Script, becase of Linguistic cleanising in Transnistria (alias Pridnestrovje) : see Vladimir Socor, "Linguistic Cleansing" in Transdniester to Banish Latin Script. The Jamestown Foundation, Eurasia Daily Monitor, Tuesday, 20 July 2004, Volume 1, issue 55. Or this: the OSCE High Commissioner on National Minorities, Rolf Ekeus about Linguistic Cleansing. So if you are supporting this policy against Latin Script (which I assume is so), and if you think there are any Transdniestrians that would support this idea of yours about a new Language that should be written with Russian Script (which I also assume is very probable), then please, feel free to create a new Transdniestrian Language and a new "Pridnestrovskaya Wikipedia"! Just make sure to do a better job than a simple transcription from Latin Script. That's not funny any more. Vasile Stati used this way (plagiarism), and made a fool of himself. --85.186.241.197 18:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- It does deserve more attention. --Landroni 12:05, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, they do "use" the Russian Script, becase of Linguistic cleanising in Transnistria (alias Pridnestrovje) : see Vladimir Socor, "Linguistic Cleansing" in Transdniester to Banish Latin Script. The Jamestown Foundation, Eurasia Daily Monitor, Tuesday, 20 July 2004, Volume 1, issue 55. Or this: the OSCE High Commissioner on National Minorities, Rolf Ekeus about Linguistic Cleansing. So if you are supporting this policy against Latin Script (which I assume is so), and if you think there are any Transdniestrians that would support this idea of yours about a new Language that should be written with Russian Script (which I also assume is very probable), then please, feel free to create a new Transdniestrian Language and a new "Pridnestrovskaya Wikipedia"! Just make sure to do a better job than a simple transcription from Latin Script. That's not funny any more. Vasile Stati used this way (plagiarism), and made a fool of himself. --85.186.241.197 18:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sockpuppet farming?
Hello, it seems to me that a lot of IPs do anon edit on the same lines as Node_ue. That is, create void articles, or articles containing 0.5-1.5 statements in broken Romanian/Moldovan. Can someone check the IPs that Node_ue operates?User:Dpotop
[edit] Void page shuffling
Cool, it looks like some users really like moving void pages around. The moldovan wiki boils with such activities. Dpotop 17:38, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] NU MAI EDITATI ARTICOLE PE MO.WIKI !
Dragii mei, cred ca Node_ue ne-a atras intr-o capcana, facandu-ne sa editam noi la wikipedia lui idioata. Va sugerez la toti sa nu mai contribuiti decat la paginile legate de stergerea acestei wikipedii. Altfel, sustineti pretentia lui ca nu e singurul editor, si va fi foarte greu de dovedit ca nu e asa. Se poate edita pe Wikipedia:Alegeri, pentru ca aceste edituri pot fi scoase din calcul. Chiar daca un articol suna idiot sau fals, ganditi-va ca e un articol pe care vrem sa il stergem. Nu are rost sa il editam. Sub nici o forma. Nici macar revert-uri.Dpotop 11:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Si va rog sa transmiteti mesajul celorlalti editori pe care ii cunoasteti (asta, bineinteles, daca vreti ca mo.wiki sa fie stearsa). Dar vad ca exista un consens pe aceasta pagina si, in general, pe mo.wiki.Dpotop 11:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- Asa e. Nu mai editam si vom sterge aceasta wikipedie. Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 11:55, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
ну маи едитэм писдиец. ди аму ши пынэ ла муартиа мниа ну маи едитез ниш морт ;) Ла попа ла пуартэ е-о писикэ муартэ. Шини-о рыде ши-о ворги с-о мэнынчие куаптэ. Ши-ам ынкэлекат пи-о ша шы в-ам зыс повестиа аша. Констэнцияну 00:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ce facem acum?
Ei, si acum ce facem? Pavel, tu esti organizatorul. :) Dpotop 17:49, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- Bună întrebare, votul s-a terminat de câteva zile! Vlad
- Aveti rabdare domnilor, avem tot timpul :) "cu rabdarea treci marea" Lucrurile merg deja...Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 09:32, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- Eu zic că trebuie de raportat votul la Bugzilla. --Landroni 12:55, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- De ce la bugzilla? (eu m-as fi gandit ca e vorba de politica, nu de un bug).
- In alta ordine de idei, cine sunt "moldovenii" Dmitriid, Vertaler, Elnoel? Also, we need to explain that not everyone in Moldova is a Moldovan speaker. Dpotop 08:59, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
- Bun, pe Dmitriid l-am gasit pe en.wiki. E nativ rus. Unul in minus. :) Dpotop 09:01, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
- Bugzilla, deoarece ei au privilegiile necesare pentru a modifica baza de date si pentru ca cel putin cineva din developers (daca nu gresesc) care s-a interesat de problema data. Bug reportul acesta vine in urma discutiei pe Wikipedia-I, locul unde se discuta problemele date. Eu zic ca cel putin votul acesta trebuie oficializat. In plus, mai avem si o alta bataie de cap: Dictionarul moldovenesc. E o idee interesanta. Trebuie de inceput inca o discutie pe Wikipedia-I si de facut inca un bug report, dupa cum a sugerat gangleri. --Landroni 18:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
- Cum Dumnezeu a apărut chestia aia?!? Există 1 singur articol şi 6 pagini mari şi late: http://mo.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Allpages ro:Utilizator:Vlad
- Bugzilla, deoarece ei au privilegiile necesare pentru a modifica baza de date si pentru ca cel putin cineva din developers (daca nu gresesc) care s-a interesat de problema data. Bug reportul acesta vine in urma discutiei pe Wikipedia-I, locul unde se discuta problemele date. Eu zic ca cel putin votul acesta trebuie oficializat. In plus, mai avem si o alta bataie de cap: Dictionarul moldovenesc. E o idee interesanta. Trebuie de inceput inca o discutie pe Wikipedia-I si de facut inca un bug report, dupa cum a sugerat gangleri. --Landroni 18:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
- Bun, pe Dmitriid l-am gasit pe en.wiki. E nativ rus. Unul in minus. :) Dpotop 09:01, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
- Eu zic că trebuie de raportat votul la Bugzilla. --Landroni 12:55, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- Aveti rabdare domnilor, avem tot timpul :) "cu rabdarea treci marea" Lucrurile merg deja...Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 09:32, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Greşeşti, Vlad. Există 3 articole: pisică, gioală şi şmotru (nu mă întreba de ce astea şi nu altele). Şi vreo trei utilizatori. E nostim că pagina de schimbări recente se poate afişa toată, şi are vreo 10 linii...
- În legătură cu mo.wp ajung la vorba mea de acum vreo două luni: înainte de a porni la vot trebuia stabilit cine are dreptul să desfiinţeze un proiect Wikipedia şi prin ce procedură. Mi s-a spus că lucrurile sînt clare şi n-am insistat. Se pare că votatul a fost partea cea mai simplă. AdiJapan 09:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
- Eu zic ca nu mai trebuie sa pierdem timpul ptr. ca daca ne lalaim asa o sa pierdem toata initiativa. Trebuie de trimis oricui, lui Bugzilla daca e nevoie. Ceea ce trebuie sa facem, este sa ne miscam repede si sa raportam votul undeva ptr. ca e f. necesar in momentul de fata ca sa avem votul recunoscut de cineva. Констэнцияну 02:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] MO wiki
http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#Redirect_to_RO_wiki
[edit] New and fresh
Node, you are popular, you are cited in the press. I don't bother to translate, but I can tell you partialy the jurnalists from Timpul are iritated, partialy they make fun of you.
http://www.timpul.md/Rubric.asp?idIssue=231&idRubric=2708
"Cât priveşte versiunea în chirilică, se pare că administratorul acesteia este un american care nu cunoaşte limba română, dar susţine teoria moldovenismului. Tocmai de aceea nu ne-a mirat să găsim aici formule gen mutări noi în loc de ultimele modificări sau Dubesari şi Tirişpolea. "
"Deocamdată, nu este clar cine este interesat în SUA să întreţină o asemenea pagină, într-o limbă care nu există. Întrebarea ar fi: cine este interesat aici, în R. Moldova, să fie promovată această pseudolimbă? Intenţia noastră de a afla cine sunt autorii acestor texte n-a dat rezultate, persoanele în cauză fiind anonime. Ar putea opri acest haos wikipedian autorităţile moldoveneşti, care ar urma să sesizeze fondatorii site-ului. Miercuri însă, când am sunat la Serviciul de presă al guvernului, aceştia nu ştiau nici în clin, nici în mânecă despre asta."
But otherwise, Wikipedias should have native support. This Wikipedia doesn't? Why keeping it?
BTW, I noticed that the words you used here are mentioned in the DEX. BTW it is "răscoleşte" and not "răscoala" (the last one means revolution). Anyway, halaturi really means "tools" (I didn't know that, and I'm shore Moldovans don't know that either); Bârcâi really means to search (i didn't know that either). But I wonder where did you found this words? Anyway, you really are someone now, because you are in the eyes of the press.... Hmmm... Te-ai scos, da-te dreq! :)) --Danutz
- Again you enjoy pretending I don't understand Romanian by saying you won't bother to translate. I don't need a translation, contrary to what your precious little article in Timpul says. I wonder, does the article give references? My guess is they got all that right out of the mouth of Bonaparte or Pavel -- "un american care nu cunoaşte limba" seems to be a recurring phrase in their oh-so-unbiased explanations to newcomers of who exactly I am. You and Ronline tend to put it more eloquently, I don't remember what exactly you guys said but it's more like that I don't speak it "sufficiently"; if I didn't know the language at all I wouldn't be able to read the article now would I? How ironic is that? I am able to read and understand an article about myself in a language which the article claims I don't know!! Now, my personal opinions about Timpul aside (they are like the Tony Blair of Moldova, IMHO), I think the article would be longer and the discussion would be about something quite different if anybody had actually bothered to interview me -- the fact that they didn't bother to interview me is quite shoddy legwork on their part, any good reporter should interview all persons involved, not least the evil American administrator who enjoys writing in a pseudolanguage that doesn't exist. I would love to ask them, if this language doesn't exist, how come there are books and newspapers in it? Languages can't just cease to exist overnight. At what point did Moldavian-Cyrillic cease to exist?? It can't be extinguished just because some unionist lapdog wants to hide from the past. --63.226.56.141 18:47, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Dear user 63.226.... "Moldovan-Cyrilic" never existed. There was a Stalinist project to create a "Moldovan, that is not Romanian" language. If you understand Romanian, as you claim, you shoud know that. People assume you don't understand anything about Romanian language, becouse you a traiyng to reinvent here an artificial language, that nobody wants to use in Republic of Moldova (or anywhere else). Why would you, a Russian spealking, try to reinvent the "language of Stalin"? I'd say that indicates a self destructive behavior, my friend. Please, try to relax.
P.S. You may want to start study Romanian language. That would help you to understand that some Moldovan people make jokes about your childish behavior.--82.170.2.111 08:36, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
- This is your personal fantasy. You and your fellow Romanians (or Moldovan unionist lapdog buddies, as the case may be) don't seem to understand what really goes on here. Now, people have called me a Russian, said I am Russian speaking. Well, they are insane. Crazy. I do not know Russian any better than I know Moldovan. I can understand things written in it, sometimes, but I cannot write in it, at all. I cannot speak it. I simply do not know Russian. I am not "Russian speaking". I am not trying to reinvent an artificial language. There are many people who say the language they speak is "Moldovan". There is people who write Cyrillic. We exist, without you. You cannot stop it. Despite your worst personal shame at the existence, there are still thousands of people, in Ukraine, Moldova, Russia, Kazakhstan, and other nations, who writes this language in Cyrillic. Maybe in smaller numbers, very small, but they exist. It's even taught in schools too in Moldova, in Stanga Nistrului. Dozens of academic articles was written in Cyrilics, popular novells, newspapers, textbooks. You can't just burn them and say they dissappear to never exist. They were made, they exist, people who writes them is still alive, people who writes this way still live, still exist, if you dispute you have eyes can't see. First Russians try to say that Moldovans are not Romanians, not related, they are entirely separate, some Slavic peoples. And now you crazy Unionists, carry on from Stalin, saying we are all Romanian, not searpatrate at all. Well, Moldavian nationality consciousness exists since many centuries ago, it is historically fact, it does not disapear, there is people always in history speaking abotu a "Moldavian language", not just in Stalin times but earlier too, in manuscripts written by old Moldavian authors from centuries ago. You and your unionist buddies want to take the edge off of what it means to be Moldovan, and make it fit inside the box of being Romanian. Well, you will never gain all Moldovan peoples to agree with you. Many are proud as Moldovans. You can see some unifing cultural characteristics that the Romanians dont have. Some are because of Soviets -- for example many Moldovans know Russian, but not many Romanians do, also, social and poltical system in Moldova is still largely Russian. And there is also pre-Stalin things, like Moldavia is always more agrariaan, it is a n area of great trade, a border area betrween two fronteirs, between the Romanians and the Slavs, an area of mixing, an area of new cultural character. If there are no moldovans, how come I go to a restaurant that serves "Moldovan food"??? And why not all of the dtraditional Moldovan food is in Romania too???? Why is it Moldovans have some smalls Grammar and Vocabulary can't be finding in Romania? You guys want us to lose individuality. We should be proud of individuality. Moldova broke away from a Soviet era, why should it go now to unite with a big power again? It's moving backwards, it's a regression, joining to Romania and saying we are all Romanians is not any better than joining ot Russia and saying we are all Russians. We remain in between. I am not Romanian nor Russian but Moldovan. So if you are a Romanian leave us alone. And if you are a Moldovan, stop being so ashamed of yourself. All of the self hate, must stop. People want to be part of Romania, to be Romanian, because they don't think Moldova, and being Moldovan, is OK. Look to the developed countries of the world They do not all want to unite to larger countries. Austria does not try to unite to Germany. They are proud in individualism. Even Liechtenstein, a tiny country, all 100% German language speakers, never relinquish unique culture and history. Learn to love yourself! And your heritage!
- Node don't even try to speak on behalf of Moldovans or pretend that you are one. Perhaps one of your forefathers was from Moldova, but you are completely divorced from reality in this aspect. For instance, no Moldovan would use the word Bîrcîeşte instead of caută or halaturi. These are real words as I discovered to my great surprise, but they are archaic at this point, just like your theories. Apropo, aproape toţi utilizatorii aici sînt din România sau Moldova, deci ei înţeleg româna/moldoveneasca, de ce nu utilizezi această limbă? Translation for Node in Kolhoz Moldovan: Бэй ши ну грэешть пи молдовинешти, аишь тэц ыс местные ши ау сы ти ынцелеагэ. Vania tractoristu 14:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Tractorist, don't tell me my heritage. I am Moldovan. Not all users here are Romanian or Moldovan -- User:Moldova, is, ironicly, not a speaker of the language. Bravo for writing in "real" Moldovan though, lol. ---24.251.68.75 06:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Node, I personaly know that you cannot speak/read/understand Romanian/Moldovan and I know you are using the online translator, as I prooved to you before. Maybe other people whould belive you, but I'm sure you know the truth, and if there is so like I think (and I'm shore of that), you are not anything else but a lonely child that has no other thing to do everyday just to meet people on Wikipedia and lose his time with them. Maybe yod don't have other friends than the Wikipedians, or maybe you have, I don't know, but what you are doing is going on insanity (you could use mIRC, Yahoo Messenger, or hi5 instead).
What I just said doesn't mean that I hate you, I don't even know you, and I'm not curious about your life. So don't bother to reply, is just for your own reflection.
Otherwise, I'm asking myself how come you understood the article in Timpul, because is written in Romanian and not Moldovan, as Timpul is a declared "Romanian language" publication, totaly against the existence of the Moldovan language. Odd, that you didn't notice. :)) Nice job. --Danutz
- Danut, you never "proved" anything. I can read Moldovan and Romanian. Don't kid yourself, it's not even a difficult language to learn. I have a friend, he speaks English and a little bit of Spanish, I taught him to read Moldovan webpages in a couple of days. Seriously -- after I taught him a few grammatical rules, he was able to read articles by himself, or at least get the gist of them. I mean, most technical words in the language are closely related to English equivalents. And when did I say that Moldovan and Romanian are mutually unintelligible? Just because I claim reading ability in moldovan does not mean I cannot read Romanian too..
- Taci din gura ca vei fi blocat.--Fratele lui Bonaparte, il cunosti? 10:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)