User talk:Wayne
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[edit] Salutos
Salutos. Me sal bald adi Babel shablones por afrikaans e fransum por vun Babel boxe.
Welcome. I shall soon add Babel templates for Afrikaans and French for your Babel box.
Nov ialiste 15:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Nus devud konsidera quu es li maxim bon novial vordes signifikant "Afrikaans" e "Afrikaaner".
We should consider what are the best Novial words for "Afrikaans" and "Afrikaner".
Nov ialiste 16:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Nomes de landes
Hi Wayne,
nice to see you have started on the African countries. When I listed all the European countries I wanted to see how many were not in Novial Lxike (1930) and needed new names and to think how best they might be in Novial. Some cannot easily be Novialized and are probably best left unchaged, like Guernsey and Liechtenstein.
NL, the dictionary, doesn't have many African countries, but the countries in Novial provide a guide as to the style of Novial names. One which is in NL is Egypt which is "Egiptia". The person is "egipte" (an Egyptian) and the adjective "egipti". I'll look over the African names to see if I can help. I notice South Afica which you correctly translated as "Sudi Afrika" is not really distinguished from "Sud(i) Afrika", i.e. Southern Africa. A bit tricky that one. Anyway let's see. Nov ialiste 19:54, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Afrikaans
Hi, I notice you used the root "afrikans-" for Afrikaans. Note that languages derived directly from an adjective end in -um like "anglum, fransum" etc. So for Afrikaans we could have:
Adjective: afrikans(i)
Language: afrikansum (= afrikans(i) lingue)
Person: afrikanse
which is nice and regular Novial and doesn't sound bad to me. 22:03, 30 desembre 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks. Before I change all. "Afrikaans" is a bit of a tough one. It means "african" in Afrikaans - "-s" being one of the Afrikaans adjectival endings. All other languages have adopted it as is, so as not to confuse it with the regular meaning of "african". So instead of using "Afrikaans" I just regularised the spelling to "Afrikans" (which incidentally sounds exactly like the original).
- As an aside I'm not too clear as to when one adopts a proper noun as is.
- On english, you havent't corrected me on that one. Should I list the language as "anglum". What about others? For example: "north sotho" is more correctly called "pedi" and in pedi itself is "sepedi". "south sotho" is more correctly "sotho" or in its own language "sesetho". Ditto "zulu" in zulu is "isiZulu". The prefixes are a bit like articles so are often omitted in english. For example, "Botswana" roughly means "place where the tswana live", their language is called "setswana" (tswana in english), the people are called "batswana" etc.
- We should probably retain the english forms modified a bit to regularise the spelling. So Tswana, Venda, Tsonga, Pedi, Swazi, Zulu stay as is (and pronounce very well compared to the original). Sotho is problematic. The "h" indicates a hard "t", not the same as in english or novial. Phonetically "Sutu" would be closest, but "Soto" may be more recognizable. What do you think? Xhosa I want to change to Kosa as that's as close as you are going to get to the correct pronounciation (Koza is the actual english pronounciation, but the s is closer to the original). (X and XH are clicking sounds that are universally mispronounced (by non Zulu/Xhosa etc.) as K). Or should they all be "-um" Help! --Wayne 14:55, 31 desembre 2006 (UTC)
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- Proper nouns are tricky to decide. If a form is familiar to the basis languages, i.e. major Romance and Germanic languages a form like that (Novialized if necessary) should be good. With "Sotho" the problem is sound versus look, as with English etc. "Lesotho" has always intrigued me. I would go for sound: Sutu - would you prefer people to pronounce it funny or write it funny? this is basically what it comes down to. Kosa sounds good.
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- For languages, if a sensible, regular Novial form is reasonable that is probably best. The languages in NL are regular: anglum, fransum, italianum, latinum, chinum, etc. Afrikansum is fine. On your new pages I had already changed the language names. Nov ialiste 15:10, 31 desembre 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Novial at Wikiversity
Just in case you're interested, a Department of Novial has started at Wikiversity: [1] Nov ialiste 00:57, 31 desembre 2006 (UTC)
- Great - I'll register as the first student :-) The main school page http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/School:Language_and_Literature doesn't seem to list it? --Wayne 15:04, 31 desembre 2006 (UTC)
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- There's a link to foreign languages and learning on the right: [2]. Novial is listed their under constructed languages. Nov ialiste 15:13, 31 desembre 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cape/headland
NL gives "kabe" as meaning "cape, headland". One question is whether you want to translate the province names or leave them in a local language. One danger of translating is that more synonyms will arise, e.g. there might well be other "Western Capes" around the world. I'm inclined to use forms from a local language.Nov ialiste 21:05, 31 desembre 2006 (UTC)
- The main problem is that Cape in Western Cape already has 3 "local" forms: Cape (en), Kaap (afrikaans) and Koloni (xhosa). Choosing the english would be bias. Since its translated locally I thought I should continue (will change to "kabe" though). Ditto for Liberi State etc. --Wayne 10:40, 1 januare 2007 (UTC)
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- My thought is on something like that it should be translated. Wayne's remark that each of 3 languages uses a form in its own language is the deciding factor. It's analogous to the fact that in English we do not translate "Los Angeles" -- so that would be the Novial name as well -- but the Spanish translate the "New" part of "New York", so we should too. In other words, my rule is that if the form is used internationally, especially in languages other than the original, then we should use the international form, while if it tends to get translated into other languages, we should translate too. (And yes, I know that Russian transliterates, rather than translates, the "New" of "New York," but I would say that if some major languages translate, we should too. -- BRG 19:56, 11 januare 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Names of African Countries
Hi,
I've started making a navigational template for African Countries.
On the Africa page I noticed a link "Botvana" goes to a page "Botswana". If we decide on the preferred forms for the country (page) names, then other possible names can be made as redirects. Keep up the good work. Nov ialiste 01:47, 9 januare 2007 (UTC)
- Any reason why you didn't just change Template:Afrika? Wayne --193.134.170.35 17:11, 9 januare 2007 (UTC)
- I forgot about the existing template. The template for European countries is called "Landes de Europa". Should we make them consistent and call this "Landes de Afrika"? I updated the template with reference to the one at English Wikipedia.Nov ialiste 00:55, 10 januare 2007 (UTC)
- No problem - I used "Afrika" as many of the Europe pages had reference to Template:Europa. You'll need to change that one too. --Wayne 20:43, 10 januare 2007 (UTC)
- OK, I'll change it to "Landes de Afrika". Other templates might be "Geografia de Afrika" and so on. Nov ialiste 23:57, 10 januare 2007 (UTC)
- No problem - I used "Afrika" as many of the Europe pages had reference to Template:Europa. You'll need to change that one too. --Wayne 20:43, 10 januare 2007 (UTC)
- I forgot about the existing template. The template for European countries is called "Landes de Europa". Should we make them consistent and call this "Landes de Afrika"? I updated the template with reference to the one at English Wikipedia.Nov ialiste 00:55, 10 januare 2007 (UTC)
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- So, use "Landes de Afrika". I'll delete the other one later when your sure that's okay. Do you want "Swazilande" instead of "Swaziland"? The former conforms better with the other countries ending in -lande, but I don't see it as crucial. Nov ialiste 00:10, 11 januare 2007 (UTC)
- Should be OK now. Ran the bot to change the lot. So you can delete Template:Afrika. --Wayne 19:12, 12 januare 2007 (UTC)
- So, use "Landes de Afrika". I'll delete the other one later when your sure that's okay. Do you want "Swazilande" instead of "Swaziland"? The former conforms better with the other countries ending in -lande, but I don't see it as crucial. Nov ialiste 00:10, 11 januare 2007 (UTC)
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