Talk:Concentration camp

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[edit] discussion for concentration camp

[edit] POV

Since there was no discussion when the tag was added, I decided to start one. Any thoughts wether the article is neutral? I'll remove the tag in a week if no-one contributes. thanks Chosongul 18:29, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guantanamo Bay

I'm not sure about calling Guantanamo Bay a concentration camp. Technically they're prisoners of war aren't they? Archer7 - talk 17:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

no, technically not because some are british and french. America just plays this down Chosongul 20:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Guantanamo Bay is NOT a concentration camp. This article should be about internment in general. PullToOpen Talk 20:43, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
A concentration camp is a camp for prisoners who oppose a certain government, a POW camp is a camp for enemy soldiers taken prisoner, this means that Guantanamo is by definition a concentration camp Chosongul 10:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
The problem with those held at the Guantanamo bay facilities is that they are not Prisoners of War, as of the Geneva convention, but Illegal Combatants. And yes, a concentration camp has nothing to do with this; as it holds only people opposing a certain government. -- Eptalon 10:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the en:internment page, there isn't a single mentioning of Guantanamo Bay. Also, there has been discussion of Guantanamo Bay's status (or lack of status) as a concentration camp on the talk page of en:List of concentration and internment camps. It is not on the list, after being discussed on the talk page (en:Talk:List of concentration and internment camps#Guantanamo Bay). I'm certainly not saying that English Wikipedia is perfect, but I think that since it has been discussed in greater detail there and is still omitted, that perhaps we should follow their lead. At the very least, while it is under discussion, I think the picture on this page should show a confirmed consensus of what a concentration camp is--and not a picture of Guantanamo Bay, which may or may not be a concentration camp. For what it's worth, after researching the definition in some detail over at English Wikipedia, I don't believe it qualifies. In fact, the name of the Guantanamo Bay page is Guantanamo Bay detainment camp. Tygartl1 03:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

English is American run, there is very little pro-muslim/socialist content, all right wing. --Chosongul 13:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I've always found it to be pretty well balanced, there are many muslim/socialist editors ready to cut down on POV. Note that 'pro-muslim/socialist' is POV, and that isn't allowed. All articles must be neutral, although people of opposing views can sometimes spot it better. They can't add their own POV, however. Archer7 - talk 13:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I think we can follow them and say that Guantanamo is not a concentration camp. Let's remove all mentions of that phrase. Archer7 - talk 13:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
On the English Wikipedia, concentration camp redirects to internment camp. Since Guantanamo Bay prison contains people who are interned without trial, it's certainly that. Clearly this is not on the scale of some infamous concentration camps of the past. However the idea of locking up a group of suspects to keep them out of the way is what "concentration" means. I think it's a interesting current news item to illustrate what an internment camp is. Sue W 15:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I would argue that a concentration camp gathers up a group of people simply because they have a certain characteristic (e.g. they are Jewish, homosexual, Japanese, Muslim). While it is true that the majority of detainees in Guantanamo Bay are Muslim, they were not gathered simply because they are Muslim. To put it another way, the United States is not gathering up/concentrating all Muslims simply based on their faith. In the same way that a death camp is a specific type of concentration camp, a concentration camp is a specific type of internment camp/detainment camp. The terms are not interchangeable. Keeping that in mind, Guantanamo Bay is an interment camp/detainment camp, but is not a concentration camp.

While I am on the topic of discussing the terminology, I think that this page should perhaps be changed to "internment", as it is on English Wikipedia. Internment camps and concentration camps can redirect here. If there are no objections, I will probabaly do that in a few days. Tygartl1 16:27, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

There are various problems here: First of all, the term concentration camp has a very negative wikt:connotation, esp. since the end of the second World War. The problem with the facilities at Guantanamo Bay is that despite the fact that there are international conventions regarding the treatment of prisoners in armed conflicts (namely, the Geneva Conventions), those held at the facilities are denied some or all of those rights. This is done by claiming that the GVA conventions do not apply to those held (because they were supposedly not part of an official state-run army). Once the difference between a concentration camp, an internment camp, and a prison facility have been made clear, can the respective cleanup be done. As part of that cleanup, a difference will probably need to be made between the geographical location Guantanamo bay, and the US-run facilities there. --Eptalon 21:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The people who are locked away in such a prison, are not usually yet found guilty of a crime, but may be politically against the leaders of a region, that's the reason for Guantanamo is it not?? --Chosongul 15:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I support changing this page to internment camp and having the various other definitions redirect to it. Perhaps we can have a preamble about why states use these institutions including: detainment, prison, forced labour, concentration and internment camps. Also point out that they are usually illegal or at least only legal under some kind of "emergency powers" because the state perceives a threat. And the provoking of such "emergency powers" is one of the objectives of terrorism (cf. Mao, Guevara et al.) At the same time, I'd like to ask whoever took out all references to the Guantanamo Bay camp to at least put back a link to it, since it is an internment camp.

[edit] Simplification.

The final paragraph starts out the a 72 word run on sentence from hell. POV issues aside, that needs to be cleaned up and simplified badly. Also tagged the other 2 sentences in that paragraph as {fact} for comparison of function of Soviet and US camps and confirmed Suicide attempts. -- Creol 12:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)