Wikipedia talk:Basic English picture wordlist
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[edit] This page
Feel free to link appropriate images for each word listed here. Since this is based strictly on Wikipedia:Basic English ordered wordlist (Picturable words section), please don't add new words. -- Netoholic @ 22:03, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Ambiguous meanings
Which meaning of "plane" should be shown? Currently an airplane is shown, but the plane article mostly talks about a geometric plane. I have not found any source which specifies which meaning should be shown. I think airplane is more useful in general life, but what should be done in other ambiguous cases? For example:
-
- band
- like a rubber band or a music band?
- chest
- body part (torso) or like a treasure chest?
- drop
- like a drop of water, or a candy (like lemon drop or cough drop), or something else?
- frame
- like a picture frame, or scaffolding?
- garden
- a place with flowers and vegetables, or a place with grass (lawn in American english) ?
- pot
- like flower pot or cooking pot, or just a general container?
Is there a general rule to decide which should be shown? Or should multiple definitions be shown? The inventor of Basic English was (from what I have found on Google/Wikipedia) lived in England in the 1930's. Should we make an effort to discern which definition was most common at that place and time? -- Jacius 05:07, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- I suppose you'd have to refer to the original book to see which is meant. Drop, apparently, means a drop of liquid, for example [1]. I can't find out what "band" is meant to be directly, but the German translation here [2] means "gang". Equally, "frame" is translated as the German for "scaffolding" or "framework", and "pot" could be for flowers or cooking; the chest is the body part. A garden can be either with a lawn or with flowers or vegetables in British English, so if he was English, that's probably what he meant. Saintswithin 22:48, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- Oh, and the meaning of "plane" in the German translation is the tool, for planing things! Saintswithin 22:52, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Here is the picturable words from the Basic-English.org website - http://ogden.basic-english.org/wordpic.html . That should help determine which meanings should be pictured. For some words, like "pot", perhaps two pictures would be appropriate.
At some point in the future, we should have plenty of images to choose from the Wikimedia Commons, so filling this wordlist in isn't a priority. -- Netoholic @ 04:13, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Be careful about WHAT you show on the pictures - try to use first-guesses
When looking over these prictures I see several things which should be taken care of:
- please, try to find a picture that is very typical and self explanatory
- try to imagine what word will be guessed by looking at the picture from somebody else but you
- don't use pictures that really mean something different although its meaning is very similar to what should be showed
- Is there also another word for this picture? Then skip it and try to find something more typical.
- if you show the picture to someone else and his first guess is something else than you imagined use his guess as word or drop the image completly an find another one
- please try to show pictures that show less art and are much more definite
This should be no kind of perfectionism but it will help people to learn more quickly.
- I'll give you some examples
- Ants : please don't mix plural and singular forms. If you want the guess ant, please show only one. Why? Because sheep for example don't have any other singular/plural form. So somebody could think a plural of ant ist also ant.
- Army : please don't show a tank. Why? Because a tank is a tank and not the army.
- Instead think of what is typical for the Army: Some soldiers, some vehicules, some (heavy) guns and a tank. (But no planes as that's the Air Force, no ships as thats the Navy, no Marines). One soldier alone or several soldiers would also be no good choice because anybody would associate: Soldier or soldiers or even troops but not the army as a whole. Ok you could say you would guess the word "military"....
- Ball: Why do you show some very special crystal ball ? I would say the first guess would be something more like marble or so.
- Instead please show a very simple ball. (not a football or a soccer ball, just a simple onecolered ball)
- Bath : Well, I would guess first that it's a tub.
- Instead for a whole bath please show a whole one with mirrors, a sink, a tub, a shower, a washing machine, a hair dryer...
- Book : Okay I can see that most of you don't see a problem with a bible. But as there are some other religions... Besides the first guess on looking at the picture is: It's a bible. But not it's a book.
- Instead: It would be more political correct to show a simple onecolered book with no title on in. But a really typical one.
- Box: My fist guess is a cube.... and then a painted one....ok its near. But not that typical
- Instead we should see some ordinary box (not too much colors on it=would be a present, no bananas on it=banana box, no show box, etc.) just a simple box. Perhaps one for house moving.
- cloud : My first association is "sky". so one lonly cloud e.g. hand painted would be much better.
- Here now the "better ones"
- Wheel : ok its kind of spartanic, but I wouldn't guess anything else than a wheel. So its a good choice.
- Apple : well one alone would be better but it's ok. (See above: Please show several things on a picture only if its a plural word or if the word is better expressed that way e.g. the word "army")
- cat, clock, eye, egg, dog, ear, spoon, stamp are very good
- hand, hammer, knife, library, moon, sheep, scissors also very good
I think you get the message. Try to choose simple pictures for those who want to read simple english...
P.S. In school I hated very much those kind of tests where you had to write a description under some pictures and got a bad mark when you guessed right but the teacher had some other vocabulary in mind ("No this word is not in our vocabulary yet. So it is wrong") - Grrrr. I really hated that. --SimpliCissimus 14:04, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- As you can see, there are a lot of missing pictures as well. The ambiguous ones you spoke of are simply the closest I've been able to find on the Wikimedia Commons. Each time I work a little on this page, I do it by letter and re-check for new images there, changing to better ones as a I go. If you would like to provide some specific images from this list, please upload them to the Commons. I'm sure they'll be welcome. -- Netoholic @ 16:45, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
[edit] List complete
I have found images or taken photographs for all missing entries in the list. I also replaced some that were criticized above (e.g. army, ball, box) and some others (e.g. feather). I did use some plural photos, e.g. bottle. Sometimes it helps to show more than one to get the idea. There is plenty of room for improvement. I'll keep my eye open for a lone cloud. --ArnoldReinhold 17:39, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
- I'd like to see some more photos which more clearly show these words. The present images are ambiguous and don't represent a "typical" example of the word. Notes in (parentheses) show reasons that the image might be mistaken for something else.
- bee (flowers, garden) - berry (plural) - bone (use a familiar bone, like a human femur [long leg bone]) - blade (knife) - bottle (plural) - boy (plural) - branch (show something larger than a twig) - brick (show a single brick, or a wall close-up) - chain (prefer something heavier) - cloud (plural, sky, horizon) - dress (need cropping) - face (statue, bust) - flag (prefer a real flag rather than graphic) - head (statue, bust) - hook (fish hook please) - house (greenery covers too much, fuzzy) - knife (bad angle, non-typical) - lip (could be better) - mouth (lips, prefer an open mouth) - net (obscure, use a real fish net) - nose (less hairy?) nut (plural) - pen (plural) - potato (plural) - ring (prefer a wedding band) - seed (blends with background) - sponge (looks like a brain) - stomach (i think this list means for that to be an external "tummy" view) - tail (can be better) - whip (need standard bullwhip) - wing (bird wing preferred)
- For the body parts in general, please try to show them from a better angle. Perhaps self-shots aren't ideal. Also, don't be afraid to add arrows to photos to make it clear what we're referring to. -- Netoholic @ 19:51, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I've updated bee, bone, cloud and knife. I'm seeking permission for a "net" photo I found. This is a work in progress. --ArnoldReinhold 12:54, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
I see a couple of representational problems with this page.
- All the people pictured are white, whereas the audience is international.
- The words listed represent only a small section of the world's society. "Church" is listed, for example, but neither "mosque", "synagogue", or "temple" are. The danger is alienation of the intended audience.
83.109.222.217 16:13, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Visual representations of objects are culturally defined and require context, i.e. subject headings and indicated culture. See the culturally authentic lexicon (CAPL) for a project with over 2000 entries. French and Russian versions are in the making. http://www.washjeff.edu/capl/
[edit] Building for worship
The Basic English word "church" is explained by Ogden in The Basic Dictionary in full English as "edifice for worship" or "the religious profession." There is no sense of a specific religion for a building or way of belief. Specific proper nouns, (capitalized names) for specific institutions are fully Basic.
[edit] Some poor choices of images
I'll stop at D. Pengo 08:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- A way to refer to the desired meaning could be to show more than only one picture. --83.64.85.242 18:04, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
(strikethru added to images that have been fixed or changed above) Pengo 23:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jewel
The image used for Jewel is considered to be deleted on the Commons. The same picture is available at Image:Brillanten.jpg instead of Image:Brillanten.jpeg. I would have changed it, but I'm not allowed to as an anonymous IP. --L.m.k 13:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Body Parts
Man parts and woman parts should be shown the same amount. where is vagina, anus, breast?