Talk:Паӂина принчипалэ/Архивэ4
Де ла Википедия ын лимба молдовеняскэ
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[edit] Черериле пентру а модифика паӂинэ
Дакэ врець сэ фачець сэ трансформе ын ачеастэ паӂинэ, дискутаць-и аичи.
Bine am sa fac o cerere aici.
And by the way if we are to count who is really moldovan here, you are not really moldovan either because from the way you spell things, it is clear that moldovan is not your first language. I would say to consider yourself Moldovan, Romanian(or Moldovan as you call it) should be your first language or at least you should be able to write without mistakes. If you can't do that you are just a citizen of Moldova.
B/c you do not even want to allow for a POV tag, it clearly suggests that you have anti-Romanian views and that you are a Stalinist.
- POV tags are for content pages only. It's not acceptable to add it to the mainpage. As I noted before, if I really were a stalinist, I would've banned you. I don't like you. You haven't done anything constructive here. But I respect your freedom to express your opinion, and let people know what you think, so as long as you're not causing any real problem I won't ban you, which any Stalinist would.
- The way I _spell_ things tells you im not Moldovan?? I never said I was a citizen of Moldova, or a citizen of Romania, or a citizen of Europe, or a citizen of Earth even -- I just said I'm Moldovan. Which I am. My language may not be perfect, but this is the consequence you may suffer if you grow up in an environment not conducive to preservation of your native language. --Node ue 06:40, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The reason why you do not like me is not because I haven't done anything constructive here, it's because I challange this outragous "Maldavian wikipedia" which with a very stuborn KGB-like attitude you keep on maintaining, and you do not even allow for a POV tag.I would say that's pretty Stalinist. If you were fair, you would allow for POV tag and you would let people themselves decide if it is right to have it or not.
[edit] Node ue, do you even speak Romanian?
[edit] În română
Node ue, tu măcar vorbeşti română/moldovenească? Дакэ врець сэ фачець сэ трансформе ын ачеастэ паӂинэ, дискутаць-и аичи. ? ce înseamnă asta??? "Dacă vreţi să faceţi să transforme în această pagină, discutaţi-i aici". Nici Marko Bela nu vorbeşte aşa de rău... Eventual "Dacă vreţi să faceţi schimbări în această pagină, discutaţi-le aici înainte". Doamne feri... Sper că ai înţeles ce scrie aici, nu vreau să fiu rău, dar chiar cred că nu ştii română deloc şi de aceea iţi ofer şi o traducere în engleză. Toate articolele care le-ai scris până acum au fost doar copii din Wikipedia în română, transformate în chirilic, pentru care nu aveai nevoie de cunoştinţe de română. Pe această pagină ai scris două sau trei propoziţii simple în română, şi de fiecare dată când am scris ceva în română, cum am scris şi de data aceasta ai evitat să-mi răspunzi.
Pe pagina mea de discuţie, mi-ai scris la un moment dat ceva, dar textul este foarte formal, şi plin de dezacorduri, şi greşeli de exprimare, chiar dacă nu are decât 2 rânduri. Presupun că l-ai tradus automat pe net.
[edit] In English
Node ue, do you even speak Romanian/Moldovan? Дакэ врець сэ фачець сэ трансформе ын ачеастэ паӂинэ, дискутаць-и аичи ? What does that mean??? "If you want to do to transform in this page, discuss them here"? Even Marko Bela speaks better... Maybe "If you want to do changes in this page, discuss them here first". Oh, God... I hope you did unterstand, what I wrote, but I think you do not speak Romanian, and that's why I provide you with an English translation. All articles that you wrote were copied from the Romanian Wikipedia, and transliterated in cyrillic, so you wouldn't have needed knowing Romanian. On this page, you wrote two or three simple sentences in Romanian, and everytime I wrote something in Romanian, like I did this time, you haven't answered.
You wrote me something once on my discussion page, 2 simple lines, but the text was to formal, and full of errors. I guess you have translated it with an automatic translator.
I'll organise here one of this days a vote, calling Moldovan speakers to agree on wheter it is your place here as an administrator (or beurocreat), you are not aloud to be a sysop, if other users of Wikipedia don't agree to it. And if it is to go further, we can prove that we know really good Moldovan, even in Cyrillic, but you dont't. I'll ask you to put the PDVN tag, because this Wikipedia is full of non-neutrality, and not just coming from your part, but also coming from other users. So be very carefull of what NPOV changes you do in this Wikipedia. It could hurt. --Danutz
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- Ha ha ha! Nice use of "Maldavian" Node. I think he is just a Communist Transnistrian Russian. The whole thing with half-Jewish is prolly a lie. I vote YEZ!!! Let's get him out and lets deleate this stupid site :)
- BTW, I found out, how you've translated the text. You used the romanian-english translator on this site, and wrote "If want to make changes to this page, discuss them here". It returned to you "Dacă vreţi să faceţi să transforme în această pagină, discutaţi-i aici". As for the text in my discussion page, you wrote "Hello Sir Danutz. Though I understand this rule, I think it is unfair. The rules at Wikipedia En indicate subjects directly tied to a single nation should use whatever orthography is used in that nation, and I do not see why we could not do the same. With regard,..." And it returned: "Salut Domn Danutz. Deşi eu înţeleg această regulă, eu cred el este nedrept. Regulile la Wikipedia En indică subiecte direct legată de o naţiun singură ar trebui să folosească oricare ortografie se întrebuinţează prin accea că o naţiun, şi eu nu văd de ce noi am putea nu facem aceiaşi. Cu consideraţie,..." At that moment I thought you don't speak Romanian well, but I guess you don't speak it at all.
- So please... jewish living in Moldova... What about fag' living in Japan? We'll se now how it all ends. Now that we know you don't speak Romanian, and you don't even live in Moldova, or have any relation to it, we shall discuss more about this so-called Moldovan Wikipedia. Apropos, by giving the example with Marko Bela, I didn't wanted to ofend the Hungaria ethnicity in Romania, it was just a remark. Sorry if I did so. Cheers >:) ! --Danutz
He is not Jewish. I can tell. I am half-Jewish and I know this much: most Jews in Moldova at least the ones that consider themsleves Romanian speakers ( like some relatives of mine) would never take the side of the Stalinists or the Communists. They usually vote other parties aside from the communist party and generally always consider themsleves Romanian speakers not "Maldavian Speakers".
This guy is an anti-Seimite. Look at his disrespect when he talks about the Holocaust. At best he is a Russian communist!
[edit] Disgusting...
This is turning into a disgusting flame war. Let's stop here please. For me personally, the best solution would be that this Wikipedia be closed down, because it's inciting too much controversy. However, we need to follow policy, and I think we should either move it to a mo-cy subdomain or redirect it to ro.wiki. Remember, though, that if there is demand for Cyrillic content in "Moldovan", we need to cater to it. I think Node has done a good thing by translating the interface and putting Latin first. By just insulting him for being Stalinist we're not going anywhere. We need to start having constructive debate and stop with the disgusting insults. For the Romanians - dacă aveţi probleme scriind decent în engleză, scrieţi în română şi eu voi traduce. Serios! Aici am văzut că mulţi dintre voi scriu în engleză într-un stil destul de jignitor, poate din cauză că nu cunoaşteţi limba aşa de bine. Puterea comunicării în acest caz delicat este foarte importantă! Insultele şi saracasmul românesc sună diferit în engleză.
By the way, Node, I think your whole point about being Moldovan is a bit suspicious. I'm saying this from a fair, neutral point of view. Honestly, are you or are you not Moldovan? It's not a problem if you're not (Danutz, please be a little bit more decent and stop calling people "Japanese fags"). Finally, I'm not taking any sides because I believe in professionalism. Personally, I broadly support the argument put forward by the Romanians, but I also think it's a bit too radical and very stupidly argued. Come on guys, show a bit of decency. Ronline 01:17, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Hi Ronline,
- Please recognise that only three people who even _claim_ to be from Moldova have commented here so far, two of them in favour of this Wikipedia, the third against. If the existance of the Romanian Wikipedia is upsetting people in Germany, why does it matter? Surely, the concerns of the foreign people will be considered, and in a case of close fraternity like Romania and Moldova it will be even more important, but in the end, the anonymous IP comments here are mostly from people in Romania. People claiming that I am a stalinist, or a KGB agent, or whatever, are obviously already not to be considered seriously, but if you add to it that they're not in, from, and probably in most cases have ever been to Moldova, the fact that their whirlwind of comments are even considered is outrageous. You and Danutz at least logged in, and until now neither of you resorted to insults (and while Danutz has called me a "Japanese fag" and other such outrageous comments, at least you are still civil). But most of the people objecting, are lacing their objections with insults, conspiracy theories, accusations, and on top of that are not from Moldova. For the record, I do not live in Moldova and I've never actually been there, but my close heritage is Moldovan and what I know of the language I learnt as a small child, not from an internet translator. As I noted before I do not agree with communism: communism is why Moldova is currently the poorest and least-democratic nation in Europe (well, as far as democratic goes, that probably is not true, at least Belarus is possibly worse), and communism resulted in the conquest and domination of Moldova by Russians.
- You don't have to translate anything for me, even though my English is a bit better, I can certainly read arguments in Romanian.
- As you noted, contrary to what a pro-russian, stalinist, kgb-agent, or whatever would do, in my few modifications to the interface, it has been biscriptal with Latin appearing first since it is the official script in Moldova, and most people visiting this site will want to read content in Latin. I also placed Latin first on the mainpage.
- As Danutz noted earlier, I do not argue that "Romanian" and "Moldovan" are different languages, but rather that people have the right to name their language as they choose, and that "mo" as an ISO code exists, and that (as shown by the links I gave earlier) people outside of Transnistria also know and sometimes use Cyrillic to write their mother tongue. I consider it an injustice that people in Transnistria are not allowed to choose their script, but at least the government there even allows Romanian, given how radical they are I would not be surprised if they had only had Russian and Ukrainian as official, or even taken an extreme measure of expelling all Moldovan-speaking people from the province. Duca said earlier that older people are nostalgic for Satlinistic days and younger people are more divided. This makes no sense, since the older people were around during the very worst of the Soviet period, and many of the younger people weren't even born yet when the USSR fell or at least grew up during glasnost. As I said before, and what I know from relatives in Moldova, is that the younger generation is increasingly bilingual and bicultural.
- Duca doubts that I am Jewish because most Moldovan jews are anti-Stalinist -- again, I am anti-Stalinist. This does not mean that I hate Russian people, or that I do not use the Cyrillic script (when my relatives were in school, it was still taught), but rather that I am anti-Stalinist.
- As I noted before, I am willing to continue this discussion. Adding a POV note to an actual content page is fine with me. Adding it to the main portal page just because it uses the term "Moldovan" and has Cyrillic, is not really acceptable.
- Somebody proposed a vote (I think it may have been Ronline). This is OK, but who will be voting? Moldovans? Or radical unionists in Transylvania, plus two fairly reasonable Romanian users (Ronline and, at least until recently, Danutz)? Since all Moldovans can write Cyrillic, whether they like to or not (with the exception of some of the younger people), the only reasonable test to see if people are actually Moldovan is seeing if they can write Romanian in Cyrillic, and even that wouldn't work since people could "cheat" (as an example, Ronline is not Moldovan, but he has recently learnt Cyrillic; others could easily just look at the pages here and on ro.wiki about the Moldovan Cyrillic alphabet). If there is a vote, a basic requirement should be logging in. So far, most of the suspicious action (or at least what I think is suspicious) has been done by anonymous users. Another requirement should be to at least claim to be Moldovan. I feel bad about proposing to exclude Ronline from a vote, though, and most users here (with the exception of the most very radical Romanian nationalists) will just lie. I really don't know what to do, since I don't want to be anti-democratic. The best I can think of is a discussion to attempt to reach a further compromise. Obviously, radicals will not like this (they won't be willing to compromise), but then the radicals are all Romanian and would not have even come to this Wikipedia in the first place save its being linked in a few pages on ro.wiki.
- Since the default mainpage is currently biscriptal, with Latin first, I don't see what's wrong with keeping Cyrillic content at this subdomain. I know there is the objection that Latin-script postings aren't allowed. The reason for this is that any Latin-script posting is almost always a copy-paste from ro.wiki. Anybody who types "mo.wikipedia.org" gets to choose their script now on the very first page. This, as well as the fact that the FIRST script (not the second) is Latin, is a huge compromise on my part, because over a few weeks I realised that it wasn't very reasonable for mo.wiki to have a Cyrillic page as its default. (and for the record, I am not Japanese, and I do not live nor have I ever lived in or near Japan)
- Danutz says this WP is full of PDV. Please, Danutz, make specific complaints. Feel free to place NPOV notices on content pages, provided you put a reason on the discussion page. Duca says that it's POV that the mainpage doesn't state that Romanian and Moldovan are the same language. Actually, the opposite is true. It leaves the user to make their own decision. It doesn't say they're separate, or that they're the same. Likewise, the Romanian Wikipedia doesn't say on its mainpage "This Wikipedia, the Romanian Wikipedia, is in the Romanian language, which is the same language as Moldovan". While I do believe that Romanian and Moldovan (or as Duca likes to say, Maldabian -- even the Soviets called it Moldavian, not Maldabian) are the same language, not everybody agrees, and if you read more about languages in general you will find that there are no widely agreed-upon criteria to differentiate a dialect from a language, so there is no "fact", only opinion. --Node ue 16:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Well in a professional way I can argue this in the following way:
As many people have pointed out before:
1)There is no such thing as a Moldovan language - first of all.
- Then why do ~33 % of Moldovans claim to speak it? If it doesn't exist? How can you claim that what you say is NPOV, when 1/3rd of Moldovans disagree?
2)Second of all - the Romanian language is written in the Latin script in all the countries in which it is a legal language: Romania, Moldova and Serbia( Vojvodina Autonomous Province). It is true that in Transnistria Romanians are forced to write in Cyrilic but then again they are forced to do so in a state that officially does not exist. Moreover, they do not want to do it. I remember I read an article in "Jurnal de Chisinau" that most romanian teachers in "moldovan" schools in Transnistria still teach their kids the latin alphabet with books writen in the latin script but they just do it in secrecy because they could be arrested if they are cought.
- This is _officially_. Regardless of the numbers, there are people in both Transnistria and other Moldovan provinces that use Cyrillic to write Romanian.
3) Thirdly, Node says that there are still some people that like to read Romanian in Cyrilic. But so far all I see is 26 badly writen articles, with extensive spelling mistakes, which are extreemly short( one cannot even call them articles, they are more like 2-3 short sentences). In most cases they are direct translations of the romanian versions and then again I have never seen anyone on this forum or the forum of the main site who backs Node. I have never heard of one Moldovan(by this I mean resident or born in Moldova) that says that he agrees with Node. What I do see, is tens of Romanians of different backgrounds and faiths that have argued against it. And maybe Ronline, the reason why many of the Romanians are so angry towards this individual is because he does not try to compromise and he does not try to maybe listen and admit that he is wrong. In case it's unclear, this guy is not here to work with anyone. He is here for propaganda purposes only and let me specify: STALINIST & ANTI-ROMANIAN PROPAGANDA.
- Most of them, in fact, are written by people living in Romania and Moldova. You don't seem to know Cyrillic, how do you know if they're badly-spelt? If you click "random page", you may find one of the really long articles, like the one on the former Roman Catholic pope, or the one on O-Zone, or the Republic of Moldova. If I were here for anti-Romanian propaganda, there would be articles saying "ROMANIA IS BAD" or "Romania is bent on taking over the rightfully independent Moldovan Republic", or "Moldovan is a separate language from Romanian, the only people who claim otherwise are Romanian colonial expansionist nazis", and other similar Stalinist rhetoric which is conspicuously absent from these pages. If you think that simply using the term "Moldovan" and using cyrillic is propaganda, there is really something wrong with you. --Node ue 16:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
ALL THAT NODE did was deceive. He deceived everyone by actually claiming that he thinks moldovan=romanian, but then again he did not show it by actually stating this somewhere on the main page.
He lied when he said he was Moldovan. How can one maintain a Wikipedia when one does not even know the language properly and relies on an internet translator.
He lied when he said he was Jewish because later on he said how people should stop bringing up the Holocaust. I would say thats an attack on the importance of the Holocaust. It is shameful but especially shameful in his case(if what he says about his background is true) if he talks like that especially 60 years after the end of WWII. Moreover his knowledge of Jewish faith, tradition, culture, upbringing is very little from what I could gather on this page.
- uhm... and when you or I say anything about Jewish faith, tradition, culture, or upbringing? You didn't ask me to tell you anything about Judaism. And as I noted I am non-practicing, ie I am not Jewish so much in faith as in heritage. --Node ue 16:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Finally he did not even allow for a POV tag. That I would say shows how shallow he is. Sorry Ronline for accusing him again but in the spirit of professionalism I would say he should have allowed for people to express their views even if that means a POV tag.
- And so far, I have not prevented you from expressing your opinions. You have made them widely known. I have simply not tolerated your putting a POV tag on the main page, simply because it uses Cyrillic. If you put the tag on any content page, this is entirely fine.
In essence, Danutz got it right. What we should do is take the appropriate measures. Node has to either step down as administrator, either be forced to do so or the whole Moldovan Wikipedia has to be deleated. Ceea ce ar trebui să facem este să ne mobilizăm şi să votam pagina pentru a fi ştearsă.
Domnu Goie
- Yes, what you are saying is fairly true. I was one of the first and most vocal to say that a "Moldovan Cyrillic" Wikipedia did not belong at this subdomain. Rather, I suggested that they move it to mo-cyr.wikipedia.org and leave this as a redirection domain. It is also true that there has been very little activity on this Wikipedia. While that is no reason to delete, I also think it's now the right time to move it to mo-cyr, due to all the controversy it's incited. mo.wiki will simply be a portal, as it is now, while mo-cyr: can contain Romanian/Moldovan Cyrillic content, if there are contributors for it. You said Node has not compromised - that's true to an extent, though he has agreed to a portal page as well as, recently, biscriptal interface tabs which list Latin first then Cyrillic. I think we should all express our opinion, take a vote if necessary, on the future of this "mo.wikipedia.org". I think in the interests of fairness, the best model would be this:
- The new subdomain model - I think this is the most reasonable model of them all. Basically, it would keep the mo.wiki as an empty Wikipedia which would redirect either to Latin or Cyrillic script. The interface would be in Latin script, this being the majority script. The Main Page would be divided into two columns, one in Latin script, one in Cyrillic script. The Latin script link would direct you to ro.wiki, the Cyrillic script link to mo-cy.wiki, a Moldovan Cyrillic Wikipedia on a separate subdomain. The logic behind this is that Moldovan is written officially and majoritarily in Latin script, hence mo.wiki cannot be solely in Cyrillic script. But in fact this model doesn't give any more weight to Latin, it just redirects to either script. It would like having zh.wiki redirecting to zh-tw.wiki and zh-cn.wiki. The separate subdomain of mo-cy would be formed to reflect the status of Cyrillic as a minority script, in fact a fairly small minority. I'm not saying this in a prejudist way, we just need to acknowledge that Cyrillic script is used by only 10% of speakers who say that they speak a Moldovan language, which is only 33% of the total speakers of so-called Moldovan-Romanian. So, at most 3.3% of Romanian-Moldovan speakers in Moldova write in Cyrillic. That is different to Serbian, for example, which is written only in Cyrillic script, being the majority script, even though a much more significant percentage of the population uses Latin Serbian than does Moldovan Cyrillic. This model is supported by Ronline, Elerium and Romihaitza. (taken from 1). Ronline 10:09, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
-
- First, Ronline, the creation of the other subdomain would have to happen prior to the emptying of this Wikipedia. Considering that even New wikipedias aren't created in a timely fashion now, I do not think this new subdomain would ever actually be created. As it is, the mainpage and all interface translations are biscriptal, with Latin first, why is it nessecary to take the step to move all content to a new subdomain? And keep in mind that most of the anonymous comentators here, the source of this "controversy", will settle for nothing short of the complete deletion of mo.wiki, and moving it to a new subdomain will hardly calm them down since as they claim there is no such thing as Moldovan, and according to them mere use of Cyrillic is anti-Romanian propaganda.--Node ue 16:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Ronline, cifra e mult mai mică. În Transnistria, doar 77% din vorbitorii de română scriu în chirilic, iar 23% scriu în alfabetul latin (vezi [1]). Asta înseamnă că în Transnistria 150.900 de persoane scriu în alfabetul chirlic. Deci procentul este de 0,58%. Să spunem că ar mai fi câţiva moldoveni din dreapta Nistrului care scriu în chirilic, lucru care ar duce procentul la maximum 1%. Şi eu sunt de acord cu modelul de mai sus. De altfel eu l-am adus în discuţie --Danutz
- As I noted before Danutz, this is unreasonable since you consider that only people in Transnistria will write in Cyrillic. Your response to my bringing this up earlier was only that you didn't think people in other provinces would write Cyrillic, not backing it up with links or statistics, while I have linked to pages written by Moldovans partially or fully in Cyrillic. --Node ue 16:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Ce înseamnă subdomainul ăsta? Va fi un subdomain al wikipediei Româneşti sau nu? Va mai trimite lumea la wikipedia românească daca cineva va alege "Moldoveneasca in Latină"? Si cel mai important, va menţiona ca limba Moldovenească scrisă in cirilică este tot una cu limba Română scrisa in cirilică? Dacă răspunsul este da la toate punctele de mai sus, atunci sunt şi eu de acord. Însă totuşi cred ca Node ăsta trebuie sa lase pe altcineva la administraţie. Ştiţi câţi Moldoveni(adevăraţi) sunt care ar putea sa preia wiki.mo? Nu e cinstit ca cineva care nici nu ştie limba bine, sa fie administrator. Cum altfel va putea să progreseze această wikipedie? Cu articole scrise greşit şi traduse de pe internet?
Domnu Goie
Notice how Node hides behind the fact that "some people" like cyrilic, although he cannot prove it. The lack of people going on this mo.wiki shows that.
- How many people go to ki.wikipedia? Very, very few. Yet the Gikuyu language is spoken by some millions of people. What, maybe they "don't like to speak it"? Or maybe they either 1) never heard of it or 2) don't have internet access? I already gave you links where people use Romanian in Cyrillic. Yet you're still telling me nobody writes this language in Cyrillic. dã...
Also notice how Node ingnores certain things. He admits to not ever being in Moldova. Node I am as Moldovan as you are then. Cuz my relatives like yours have been born there, I just haven't been there. And btw I can read in cyrilic VERY WELL.
- Were your grandparents or your parents born there? Or only cousins? Is the main reason you don't live in Moldova because your family fled to escape communism? Or do you just have aunts and cousins there?
Then Node argues that only Moldovans should vote. But then again you are not really Moldovan accorind to your own definition of Moldovan. You do not live in Moldova. You just say that you have been brought up as a Moldovan. Well so have I. I am just as Moldovan as you so if you can vote, then I can vote as well, again accoriding to your own definition. :).
- What is my definition of Moldovan? Please, tell me.
One more thing, this wikipedia is not really for Moldovan nationals only; if Moldovan is a language it is supposed to be for all people that speak this language, just like the English wikipedia is not a wiki only for NATIVE-English speakers from UK for example( that would be absurd). It is a wiki for all english speakers. So according to this defintion all people that understand Moldovan(even in cyrilic) should be able to vote.
- That's very true, but it's not a fair vote if unionists from Romania are the majority voting. On en:, the majority is native speakers. And they never have votes so extreme as "let's delete this Wikipedia".
Then he goes on saying that only 3 people talk about the mo.wiki and 2 are for it. I only see one: NODE. Also go on the previous page that shows the latin and the cyrilic options, you are gonna see a lot of people stating their problems with the wiki.
- Actually, I checked. There are 4. Monedula, Vertaler, Dmitriid, and myself. Dmitriid opposes the existance of this Wikipedia. Monedula made edits to the Cyrillic pages, and didn't feel strongly enough that this Wikipedia should be deleted to make a note of it on a talkpage. Vertaler is responsible for much of the content here, and as can be seen from the fact that he created an article "Moldovan alphabet" (should be moved to "Moldovan Cyrillic Alphabet"), he is clearly not against its existance. Tell me, how many of the people that are stating their problems consider themselves as Moldovan? How many were born in Moldova, or are the descendants of Moldovan immigrants? Has any of them even been to Moldova, or made a telephone call to Chisinau? Or are they all born in Romania, to Romania-born parents and Romania-born grandparents, and are they all unionists who seem to think that all Moldovans are enslaved and that we don't really know what we wan't?
The issue here Node,is that you are not a proper administrator. You do not allow for a POV tag on the main page and let me tell you this: it is not so much because its in cyrilic but because it doesnt state that Moldovan=Romanian. You claim that u left it as that so people can decide for themselves but the purpose of any encyclopedia is to inform people and you are not informing anyone.
- POV tags do not go on main pages. They go on content pages. As I noted before, there are no linguistic criteria for deciding what is a language and what is not. 33 % of Moldovans disagree with you and I that it is an identical language, so what we think about it is not an NPOV, and does not belong here. If it did belong here, we would put it on the page Moldovan language, not the mainpage. Does the Romanian Wikipedia say on the mainpage that Moldovan and Romanian are the same language? No. So why should it here?
You do not even want to compromise at all, again proving that what I said was right. You do not even want to make it a subdomain, and you bring out the same arguments "radicals, nationalists, etc. etc.", you know the communists used the same words for Romanians who refused to call themselves Moldovans in the Soviet days, this is why I am calling you a Stalinist because "Moldovan language" is a Stalinist invented term. And you try in a very sneaky, yet pathetic way to play the Romanians against each other, being nice to some, accusing others. It's not really gonna work. You are simply in the wrong. I just wish you could admit that.
- If I did not want to compromise, the mainpage would be at the main Cyrillic page, as it was some weeks ago, and Ronline would still be very upset with me for not listening to him. If I did not want to compromise, the things you see at the top of the page "discutie", "editeaza pagina", "istoric", would only be in Cyrilic.
- If ro.wiki moves to ro-latin, and en.wiki moves to en-latin, and sr.wiki moves to sr-cyrillic, then I'll reconsider. Also, I actually said I would consider moving to a longer subdomain if it already existed. The simple fact is, it will probably take a long time to create, and in the meantime, this Wikipedia will remain. As I told you before, Stalinists try to stifle all opposing opinion, and as I already noted, I have not banned you, even though you irritate me, and I have told you you may plaster any content page you want with NPOV stickers as long as you put the reason on the talkpage. And, when you make an NPOV sticker, you shouldn't fill it with suck acid as "This page is POV because Romanian and Moldovan are the same language", but instead "The neutrality of this page is disputed. Please see the talkpage for in more detail".
- I'm not trying to pit anybody against anybody else. The simple fact is that Ronline is reasonable, does not call people names, and remains calm and logical, while you and your band of anti-Moldova, ultraunionist goons go on about how I am Stalinist, tyrranical, &c, &c, &c...
PS: about the part where you say you can read Romanian, you might but then again you might just be using the translator. the fact that u did lie before does not look good on anything that you might say now. haha nice try.
- When did I lie before? And maybe you are an Italian using a translator to write Romanian? How will we ever know? Maybe your translator is just better than the one Danutz linked to. --Node ue 20:02, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Domnu Goie
Well for once, I have written in Romanian( correctly) before so that proves that I can write in this language, hence no I do not use romanian translators like some people in this discussion. And unlike you state somewhere above, yes I can read and write in cyrilic :)
Second of all the compromises you have made are very minor and still do not touch on the most sensitive issues. Again the fact that some people like to read Romanian in cyrilic is not what is being discussed here. What is being discussed is the fact that you use "Stalinist terms" like "moldovan language". If you would have stated that the Moldovan language=the Romanian language I donnot think that there would have been all this fuss. And yes for your information somewhere on the Romanian pages, I forgot where but it is mentioned that the Romanian language = Moldovan. If Ronline or Danutz can help me here I would be very thankful.
The argument that anyone can use whatever name for the Moldovan language is really pathetic. Cuz then we can use names for English in the USA and call it American, english in Texas and we can call it Texan and Byelorussian in latin and we can call it "Latorussian". But all these things are not done. The thing with you knowing stuff about the youth in Moldova and how bilingual and multicultural they are, I would say that you are very badly informed. How can you possibly know how the youth is like if you haven't gone there to see it for yourself. All you did is give 2-3 websites where Moldovan in cyrilic is used mostly by russians who prolly use it because they are used to the RUSSIAN KEYBOARD.
If you would agree to make the Moldopedia a subdomain, again I think that would help but you dont even want to do that. You don't even want to let people to vote. Lemme tell ya, people should vote despite their political orientations. Just because you don't like them because they don't agree with your Stalinist views does not mean that they should not vote. About my origins, not only have I relatives in Moldova right now but my family was born there, making my case the same as yours, only I am not arguing for a Stalinist term such as "moldovan language". In other words if you plan to vote on the future of this wiki.mo then so should I.
Again about the English wiki example, nobody can ever argue that it is made for native-English speakers from England only. If this is what you argued above then I am sorry but U are wrong. It is also for english speakers from the USA, AUSTRALIA, CANADA, etc etc and the whole world even if it is not their native language. They donnot have to vote on banning the whole wikipedia in english because they all agree that English is one language ragardless of the country it is being used in. And one more thing, they donnot have administrators that cannot even spell or even speak the language at all.
So one more time, all the people that understand "Moldovan/Romanian" in cyrilic should be able to vote.
Basically the way I see it is this. The options are either for you to clearly state that Moldovan in Cyrilic is Romanian in Cyrilic and make it a subdomain ( In other words make this wiki more Neutral not just Stalinist propaganda). Either you resign as administrator since you are not really moldovan and you cannot even speak the language( in this respect even I make a better Moldovan and administrator then you), either we vote on deleating the whole wiki.mo or making it a subdomain and putting someone else( THIS TIME A REAL MOLDOVAN) as administrator.
PS: just like you are accusing me of insulting you by calling you a Stalinist, I can say that you are insulting me by calling me an ultranationalist( lol I think I only heard this term used on serbians who killed bosnians and albanians).
Your buddy, Domnu Goie