Disputatio:Ioannes Picco (comes Mirandulensis)
E Vicipaedia
[recensere] Nomen
Angelus Politianus (Angelo Poliziano) in his letters consistently calls this man Ioannes Picus Mirandula. IacobusAmor 23:57, 17 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- I think so too -- only, are you sure it wasn't Ioannes Picus Mirandulae, as in della Mirandola? Unfortunately I wasn't able to check yesterday; therefore I merely corrected comites to comes, added a redirect, and left the rest alone! Massimo, do you have a source for Picco and Mirandulensis? AndrewDalby 08:10, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- It's always Mirandula in Angelo Poliziano: Letters: Volume I: Books I–4, edited by Shane Butler (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 2006), even in a letter from Pico himself (printed on pp. 26–31)—a historically useful letter, in that it alludes to the rebirth of Latin learning that Pico and Politianus were promoting: "Novicii sumus atque tirunculi, qui ex inscitiae tenebris pedem modo movimus, promovimus fere nihil. Benigne nobiscum agitur si inter studiosorum ordines referamur. Habet docti nomen quiddam aliud quod sit tibi et tui similibus peculiare; mihi tam grandia non conveniunt, cum eorum quae in literarum studiis sint praecipua, nihil non solum exploratum habeam, sed nec adhuc etiam nisi per transennam viderim conabor quidem, id quod nunc ago, talis esse aliquando qualem nunc me praedicas et esse aut iudicas aut certe velles." IacobusAmor 12:19, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- I like that quotation a lot. Maybe we should put "Novicii sumus atque tirunculi" on the pagina prima. AndrewDalby 13:33, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- That's definitely apt for me! Perhaps it would be a consolation for others to know that our learned forebears felt the same sentiments. IacobusAmor 15:05, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- Iohannes Reuchlin in libris De arte cabbalistica conscriptis in Epistula ad Leonem X. pont.max. eum Ioannem Picum Mirandulae comitem et in libro I., capite 13.P Ioannem Picum Mirandulanum comitem appellavit.--Irenaeus 15:37, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- That's definitely apt for me! Perhaps it would be a consolation for others to know that our learned forebears felt the same sentiments. IacobusAmor 15:05, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- I like that quotation a lot. Maybe we should put "Novicii sumus atque tirunculi" on the pagina prima. AndrewDalby 13:33, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- It's always Mirandula in Angelo Poliziano: Letters: Volume I: Books I–4, edited by Shane Butler (Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press, 2006), even in a letter from Pico himself (printed on pp. 26–31)—a historically useful letter, in that it alludes to the rebirth of Latin learning that Pico and Politianus were promoting: "Novicii sumus atque tirunculi, qui ex inscitiae tenebris pedem modo movimus, promovimus fere nihil. Benigne nobiscum agitur si inter studiosorum ordines referamur. Habet docti nomen quiddam aliud quod sit tibi et tui similibus peculiare; mihi tam grandia non conveniunt, cum eorum quae in literarum studiis sint praecipua, nihil non solum exploratum habeam, sed nec adhuc etiam nisi per transennam viderim conabor quidem, id quod nunc ago, talis esse aliquando qualem nunc me praedicas et esse aut iudicas aut certe velles." IacobusAmor 12:19, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
[recensere] Pico, non Picco
1. His own letter referenced above says Pico.
2. Angelus Politianus uses the form Pico (see above).
3. In a poem in Greek elegiacs (pp. 26 in the book referenced above), Angelus Politianus calls him Πικος in the nominative and and Πικον in the accusative, not Πικκος and Πικκον. (Say, why aren't the vowels with circumflexes available among the litterae Graecae in the box below? Πικος and Πικον need a circumflex over the iota.) IacobusAmor 12:19, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
4. Vicipaedia already has the form Ioannes Picus Mirandula (though in the genitive, Ioannis Pici Mirandulae) in the article on one of his friends. You can look it up! IacobusAmor 13:26, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- That's another question! I always have to go and copy polytonic characters from en:Polytonic orthography#Examples of polytonic characters, but we need them fairly often. Maybe necessary to speak nicely to UV.
- OK, not all painters can spell. That might explain the Picco on the painting. As for the final -o, I don't think we should rely on the painter for that either, if we have better sources. He may not have decided between Italian and Latin; or he may have intended a dative case. You have seen Picus and Πῖκος and so have I.
- I have seen Ioannes Picus Mirandulae once; but if you have Ioannes Picus Mirandula, and as close to home as in letters from himself and from Poliziano, we should go with it, I would say. Let's wait and see if Massimo agrees. AndrewDalby 13:12, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- 1. Yes, painters (except Leonardo & Michaelangelo) should stick to their limning! The name I see in the painting is IOAN•PICCO MIRANDVLA. IacobusAmor 13:23, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- 2. Since the spellings may have been regularized by the editor of the Harvard edition, anybody who can consult the first edition (Aldo Manuzio, 1498) or any original MSS would be well advised to do so. IacobusAmor 13:15, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
[recensere] fons
the image on the page is the source of Ioan. Picco. Mirandulensis. --85.2.168.238 08:52, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
- It supports Picco, but not Mirandulensis, unless your eyes can see more letters than I can. AndrewDalby 11:11, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)
oops.. you 're right,sorry..--Massimo Macconi 13:43, 18 Iunii 2007 (UTC)