Abstract Wikipedia abstractwiki https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page MediaWiki 1.47.0-wmf.4 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Abstract Wikipedia Abstract Wikipedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 4 6 8886 8866 2026-05-27T15:21:55Z Arlo Barnes 953 /* template suggestion */ new section 8886 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) d3vu4iglna5be5vutn9h9u2537vlm1c 8888 8886 2026-05-27T16:04:52Z Feeglgeef 36 /* template suggestion */ Reply 8888 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) 0s1sfp8z4hhajv8zux1mgbdelapho0b 8889 8888 2026-05-27T17:01:36Z DVrandecic (WMF) 11 /* To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia */ Reply 8889 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) skdtxwfp5v1qv0ee92hqhjzsguuckbo 8896 8889 2026-05-27T21:52:01Z Some helpful person 2820 /* To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia */ Reply 8896 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) raia65eozd2uagyea2e5knnc0f3ng1n 8902 8896 2026-05-28T06:08:32Z 99of9 614 /* Spaces between sentences, another attempt */ 8902 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) cx7ixkbsk31ki1moem6ckdtklgwcyi9 0 382 8897 8878 2026-05-28T01:02:35Z 99of9 614 (temporary) insert some rendering tests 8897 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q408", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q6256" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q55643" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z35672", "Z35672K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q1322988" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", 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I'm requesting [[Project:Administrators|adminship]] on Abstract Wikipedia because I believe that having a local admin here would be highly beneficial to the self-sufficiency of the project, as Denny Vrandečić recently pointed out in the [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|latest status update]]. In my opinion, one of the main benefits of having a local admin is having someone who understands, in depth, the actual content of abstract articles. I’ve created [https://xtools.wmcloud.org/ec/www.wikifunctions.org/Feeglgeef over 1000 objects] on Wikifunctions, making me very familiar with the function model. As an admin, I’d be able to handle deletions and vandalism, update the main page for things like featured articles (when we get to that), etc. During my tenure as an admin on Wikifunctions, I designed the current styling for their main page, which has since been carried over here. I think I've been quite involved in the wiki since its creation a month or so ago. I am truly sorry for abusing my sysop tools in January 2025, which I understand severely violated the community's trust. I promise never to do so again if granted this position, though I completely understand if some community members still have reservations. Thank you. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:37, 9 May 2026 (UTC) *Abusing your sysop tools! Can you explain what you did and why? 🪶-[[User:Tanbiruzzaman|<span style="font-family:monospace;color:#006400;letter-spacing:1px;">TΛNBIRUZZΛMΛN</span>]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|💬]]) 01:41, 9 May 2026 (UTC) *:Here's the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=95967 log item]. My only excuse was a bad one, I was having a particularly terrible day and was frustrated with proceedings on meta's steward requests page. Of course, I promise that I'll be able to control myself and won't do anything of the sort again. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:48, 9 May 2026 (UTC) *::{{O}} per SHB, mainly. I can't trust you to grant advanced rights, for now.🪶-[[User:Tanbiruzzaman|<span style="font-family:monospace;color:#006400;letter-spacing:1px;">TΛNBIRUZZΛMΛN</span>]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|💬]]) 09:31, 9 May 2026 (UTC) *{{o}} that tool misuse was extremely childish and is a bit far too recent in my opinion. —[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 03:14, 9 May 2026 (UTC) *:Thank you for your feedback. If you consider 485 days "far too recent", how many would you consider enough? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:33, 9 May 2026 (UTC) *::I would’ve had a bit more sympathy if you actually reflected on what went wrong and what you would have done differently next time (instead of just a plain apology). You didn’t just misuse your tools, it also involved a Meta indef block for incivility, name calling and personal attacks. For you to obtain advanced perms, you should at the very least clear that block first. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 04:29, 9 May 2026 (UTC) * {{s}}. I may be the only person to vote in favor of your adminship, but I truly trust and respect you as an editor and think you would be a great candidate for administrator on here. It's been over a year since that fuckup, and you have shown no signs of returning to that behavior since then, so the very least I could do is give you the benefit of the doubt. Irrespective of how this turns out, I thank you for your contributions. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:11, 9 May 2026 (UTC) :I'm '''withdrawing''' this request. I understand that the community isn't yet ready to trust me with advanced permissions again. Thank you all for your feedback, especially [[User:Theki]] for their words of support, which I really appreciate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:08, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Interface administrator == == Translation administrator == === Translation administrator: [[User:theki|theki]] === Let's give it a try, why not. There are plenty of pages on this wiki which are in need of being setup for translation from English, and I believe I have the necessary knowhow of this place (and Wikifunctions) to help with the effort. I marked up [[Abstract:Notability]] and the [[Abstract:Project chat/Header|project chat header]] for translation just recently; I'm hoping these are proper enough. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:27, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Please add a languages tag at the top of the page and use Special:MyLanguage for linking other translatable pages. Thanks, --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:39, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Special:Diff/8190|Done]], I will keep that in mind for the next time. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:44, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Great, {{S}} --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:48, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :{{s}} '''strongly''', thank you very much for applying. I wish I had as much to say about you as you did about me. It'd be nice to have a translation administrator well-embedded into the project, a role [[User:Theki]] fits very well, and I trust them to handle this role. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:33, 20 May 2026 (UTC) Successful: 2 {{s}}s; 0 {{o}}s. {{ping|Theki}} please [[m:Steward_requests/Permissions#Miscellaneous_requests|ask the stewards]] to grant the right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:28, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Bureaucrat == == Bot == == Miscellaneous requests == ==See also== * [[Abstract Wikipedia:User groups]] ** [[Special:ListGroupRights]] for the listing of rights per user group t3b7b3qz4hc6quug8hpobu913yg0dk9 0 2777 8887 7243 2026-05-27T16:02:41Z Skeletons are the axiom 3448 added fictional and from sonic the hedgehog universe 8887 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q2333421", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26088", "Z26088K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26088K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q95074" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z23726", "Z23726K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z14396", "Z14396K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33975", "Z33975K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z33975K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q95074" }, "Z33975K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q50917996" }, "Z33975K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } } } ] } } } 6tedkr7ackjis78ia3yslz0oh52no36 4 2888 8906 7943 2026-05-28T06:43:17Z 99of9 614 /* Comments */ 8906 wikitext text/x-wiki This page proposes to discuss the possible different architectures in which the generation of an Abstract Wikipedia article can be organized. The main issues are how to handle context, and how to keep execution times reasonable. Pleas feel free to improve this page, to comment below the architecture sections, and to add your own alternative proposals. == Current architecture == [[File:Simple fragments.svg|frame]] This architecture is the currently used one: an Abstract Wikipedia article is the collection of multiple fragments, that are inserted in the article as single function calls. The different types of sentence are encoded as call to different functions, with the content encoded by the function parameters. Each fragment is independent from the other. Currently fragment generating functions output monolingual texts, that then need to be converted into HTML code; it is possible to also define fragment generating functions that directly output HTML code, in order to include formattings/wikilinks/etc. === Pros === * Being the current architecture, it is already supported. * For each "fragment" a different function is called, allowing fast-executing functions and to parallelise the generation of an Abstract article. ** Note that, with the current implementation, this advantage disappears when multiple fragments are grouped in paragraphs or other text-organizing functions. * Somewhat intuitive both for Abstract Wikipedia editors and for Functioneers. === Cons === * Each type of sentence requires the definition of its own function. Considering that even simple sentences can have multiple combinations, the number of needed functions would undergo to combinatoric explosion. ** Also note that each function needs to be singularly implemented in each language, with little possibility of code reuse. It would be almost impossible for smaller languages to keep up with the implementation of an ever growing number of fragments. * Each fragment would be generated without any knowledge of the global context. Considering that natural languages heavily rely on context, the generation of grammatical and somewhat natural-looking text would become impossible with articles with more than 2-3 sentences. * Currently, the fragment generating functions are very vaguely defined: they are basically defined through the English translation of the fragment, introducing a heavy bias towards English and Indo-European languages, as can be proved for example by the fact that [[f:Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095]] are different functions, while [[f:Z26570]] does not define in which sense the entity is in the location (is it in the geographical area? physically inside the building? near the location?). ** Note that this con can be resolved by a better redefinition of the fragments. This would still cause the definition of hyper-specific fragment functions, with the consequent lost of intuitivity and the already mentioned combinatorial explosion. === Comments === * I think we've successfully distinguished [[f:Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095]] now. Instance of vs subclass. Even if they are sometimes said with identical words, it's reasonable to have two functions. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:43, 28 May 2026 (UTC) == Modest improvement to current architecture using spans == [[File:NLG object architecture under modest improvement.svg|right|x200px]] tl;dr: Do all linguistic processing on plaintext (Z11/Monolingual text), but keep track of which span(s) in the string corresponds to each Item from the outer callsite. Then that outer Function can format and linkify the final string by iterating those ranges as ordered by their start index. {| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" ! (Existing types, for completeness) |- | <syntaxhighlight lang="rust"> type WFString = Z6; type MonolingualText = Z11; // = Pair<Langcode, WFString> type Langcode = Z60; type HTMLFragment = Z89; type List<E> = Z881<E>; type Pair<F, S> = Z882<F, S>; type Map<K, V> = Z883<K, V>; // = List<Pair<K, V>> w/ key uniqueness invariant type WDItem = Z6001; type WDItemRef = Z6091; type Natural = Z13518; </syntaxhighlight> |} <syntaxhighlight lang="rust"> type Span = Pair<Natural, Natural>; type Multimap<K, V> = Map<K, List<V>>; // = List<Pair<K, V>> w/o key uniqueness invariant type NLGOutput = Pair<MonolingualText, Multimap<WDItemRef, Span>>; type RichTextTransform = fn(HTMLFragment) -> HTMLFragment; type SuperlativeInLocationDefiningSentence<R> = fn( subject: WDItemRef, class: WDItemRef, location: WDItemRef, characteristic: WDItemRef, displayLang: Langcode, ) -> R; pub static superlativeInLocationDefiningSentence: SuperlativeInLocationDefiningSentence<HTMLFragment> = |subj, class, loc, charc, lang| applyFormatting( toSentenceCaseAndAddPunctuation( (match lang { Langcode("en", _) => enSuperlativeInLocationDefiningSentence, _ => todo!(), })(subj, class, loc, charc, lang), lang ), Multimap([ createArticleSubjectEmphasisTransformation(subj), createLinkifyTransformation(class, awArticleLinkFor(class)), createLinkifyTransformation(loc, awArticleLinkFor(loc)), ]) ); pub static toSentenceCaseAndAddPunctuation: (NLGOutput, Langcode) -> NLGOutput = todo!(); pub static createArticleSubjectEmphasisTransformation: (WDItemRef) -> RichTextTransform = |item| Pair(item, |innerHTML| HTMLFragment(format!("<strong>{innerHTML}</strong>"))); pub static awArticleLinkFor: (WDItemRef) -> WFString = |item| format!("https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/{item.qid}"); pub static createLinkifyTransformation: (WDItemRef, WFString) -> RichTextTransform = |item, linkTarget| Pair(item, |innerHTML| HTMLFragment(format!("<a href=\"{linkTarget}\">{innerHTML}</a>"))); pub static applyFormatting: (NLGOutput, Multimap<WDItemRef, RichTextTransform>) -> HTMLFragment = todo!(); // handwaving, but it would split the Monolingual text in the 1st arg's first item based on the spans from the 1st arg's second item, convert them to HTML fragments, then apply each of the transformations from the 2nd arg </syntaxhighlight> {| class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" ! (The implementation <code>enSuperlativeInLocationDefiningSentence</code>, as an example) |- | <syntaxhighlight lang="rust"> pub static enSuperlativeInLocationDefiningSentence: SuperlativeInLocationDefiningSentence<NLGOutput> = |subj, class, loc, charc, lang| { let words = [ labelFor(subj, lang), enCopulaFor(subj), MonolingualText(lang, "the"), enSuperlativeFor(charc), labelFor(class, lang), enPrepositionForLoc(loc), labelFor(loc, lang), ]; NLGOutput( MonolingualText(lang, words.join(" ")), [ // Rust is 0-indexed, but there's probably a bunch of errors here anyway, so don't copy it Span(subj, 0..words[0].length), Span(class, (4 + &words[0..=3].iter().map(|&text| text.length).sum()) ..(4 + &words[0..=4].iter().map(|&text| text.length).sum())), Span(loc, (6 + &words[0..=5].iter().map(|&text| text.length).sum()) ..(6 + &words[0..=6].iter().map(|&text| text.length).sum())), Span(charc, (3 + &words[0..=2].iter().map(|&text| text.length).sum()) ..(3 + &words[0..=3].iter().map(|&text| text.length).sum())), ] ) }; </syntaxhighlight> |} === Pros === * The existing corpus of NLG Functions can be either kept as-is (e.g. inflection helpers) or migrated piecemeal (sentence-generating Functions). * This texts+spans structure puts to rest the question of which Type to use for the outputs of sentence-generating Functions: Z11, not Z89 (and definitely not Z6). === Cons === * Inherits the m&ndash;n problem of the status quo: each sentence-generating Function still needs an Implementation in every language. There's no new affordance for constructing grammatically correct sentences from smaller fragments. * Inherits other problems of the status quo, covered in [[#Current architecture]] above. === Comments === (With apologies to non-Rust programmers for its use here as a statically-typed lingua franca, and with apologies to Rust programmers for weird or broken syntax. I know <code>pub fn &lt;identifier&gt;</code> exists.) <br>This outlines what I foresee as the most evolved form of the current architecture, and is an expansion of [[f:WF:Type_proposals/Syntactic_table#c-YoshiRulz-20260403175300-Comments|my offhand comment here]]. <br>I'm only offering this as a "baseline", I can't advocate its adoption (except as a stop-gap, since as mentioned above it does solve the return type problem). Personally, I want to see an architecture which can attain prose, or something close to it, in most of the world's languages. <br>[[User:YoshiRulz|YoshiRulz]] ([[User talk:YoshiRulz|talk]]) 21:26, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Semantic unit architecture == This architecture is the architecture explained in the Wikifunctions type proposal for [[f:Wikifunctions:Type proposals/Semantic unit|Semantic units]] by user [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] (see [[f:Wikifunctions:Type_proposals/Semantic_unit/Douglas_Adams|the example]] to better understand how the encoding of abstract content and of context would work). The architecture explained here is mostly taken from the article [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3233/SW-243564#x1-14001-4], with some minor tweaking to accommodate to the actual needs of Abstract Wikipedia. [[File:Semantic unit.svg|frame]] The entire Abstract article would be generated in a single function call. The input would be the entire abstract content enclosed in a "context", that would encode all the meta-information that is necessary for the generation of the article (like the references to all the real-life objects that do not have a QID that uniquely identifies them). The (really simplified) rendering process would be as follows: # The abstract article is converted by rendering functions to a syntactic tree, i.e. a tree encoding the lexemes that are present in the sentence and the mutual relation between them. The rendering function acts on a single semantic unit (i.e., a node of the abstract article tree), and recursively calls the rendering functions acting on the child semantic units. # The syntactic tree is rendered into the final HTML article. This renderer comprises various steps, that generally require a complete traversal of the entire syntactic tree or of the internal partial representation. === Pros === * It is an architecture that allows the creation of a cohesive text, thanks to the support of a shared context. It also allows more freedom for the language-specific renderers to organize the text in a way that makes more sense to the specific language. * Since the abstract content is encoded as a tree, it prevents the combinatoric explosion of constructor types and of needed implementations. === Cons === * The generation of an entire article with a single function call is now not possible, due to the prohibitively high execution times. This architecture does not allow to parallelise the generation of an article, or just to progressively generate the article in a progressive fashion. * The learning curve would initially be very steep both for Abstract Wikipedia editors and for Functioneers; after the initial difficulties, this encoding would not include any particular difficulty, and it would probably be easier to use in order to encode complex abstract content that hyper-specific fragments. === Comments === == Stream semantic units == [[File:Stream semantic unit.svg|thumb]] This architecture is based on the semantic unit architecture, but with the difference that the abstract content, instead of being completely provided in a single function call, is split into paragraphs. Each renderer internally would work very similarly to the renders described in the previous section. The article is generated by the concatenation of the outputs of the various renderers. Starting from the second renderer, each renderer would have two sources of inputs: * the input defined in the function call (i.e., in Abstract Wikipedia), consisting in the Semantic unit representing a part of the article (indicatively, a paragraph), * the input coming from the previous renderer, consisting in 2 inputs: ** the abstract content that the previous renderer decided not to render, ** the context (initially created on Abstract Wikipedia and passed to the first renderer as an input), updated by all the renderers that have executed previously. The renderer would then execute, providing three outputs: * the HTML containing the rendered abstract content that the renderer decided to render, * the abstract content (Semantic unit) that for some reasons it may decide not to render and to pass to the next renderer, * the context, updated by the renderer itself. The first output would go directly to compose the Abstract Wikipedia article, while the other 2 outputs will be used as inputs by the next renderer. At the end of the chain, a "Final renderer" would render the eventual abstract content that has not been rendered yet. While it is already technically possible to implement this chain on Wikifunctions, it would be a single function call, and, like the previous proposal, it would suffer from the issue that it would need to generate the entire article in one go. The real advantage of this proposal would come if, instead of being implemented by a regular function, it was implemented through a magical function that would execute the renderers sequentially, giving each one the complete function execution timeout, collecting the partial outputs (and showing the partial generated output directly in the page) and passing the internal outputs to the next renderer, alongside the new external input. === Pros === * It would have all the advantages of the Semantic unit architectures, and still give at least partial outputs in a reasonable time (limiting timeouts). * Even if it doesn't allow the constructors to know all the abstract content that eventually will need to be rendered, it still gives them a quantity of foreknowledge that should be enough for practical purposes, while maintaining all the necessary memory of the previous content. After all, this is more or less the same type of knowledge humans have while generating linguistic content. === Cons === * It is not currently implementable, since it requires a magic function that has a special behavior. * It requires rendering partial abstract content in discrete sequential chunks, without the possibility to refine them once more abstract content is rendered. However, as mentioned before, realistically this should not be a problem, since the quantity of foreknowledge that renderers have available (i.e., the content of the entire paragraph) should be enough for all practical purposes. === Comments === br2yx7vya35ikaf29nyuh4mxc0idigp 5 3028 8881 8879 2026-05-27T12:38:44Z 99of9 614 /* Suggesting even sharper criteria */ chemical compounds? 8881 wikitext text/x-wiki == Suggesting even sharper criteria == While the current proposal is a bit sharper than the Wikidata notability criteria, I would like to propose to have it even sharper. I think that a Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability. I think of two arguments for this. a) If no one bothered to write about it in ''any'' human language, is it really notable? b) Or perhaps they did, but it was deleted as not notable in all languages tried so far. Are we then opening some doors for people to still be able to "write" about very niche topics? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 19:10, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I'm inclined to agree. Writing an abstract article is much, much harder than writing a concrete article. If a topic truly is notable, the author can probably throw together an article in a Wikipedia of any of the languages they speak. If it does miss anything that is actually legitimate to include, well, we're not a bureaucracy, so we can just keep it. Perhaps a note that deletion should be avoided for articles that are obviously notable, but just don't have a concrete Wikipedia article. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:17, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't know if this is a great standard, since it would mean that our notability standard would depend on two factors on which I would rather not rely: (a) the languages the article author knows, and (b) the notability standards of other projects. English Wikipedia has quite high notability standards, so I can understand why someone would be less willing to make an article there. And if they only know English, they wouldn't be able to make one anywhere else. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 19:44, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::This is true, we shouldn't discriminate against prospective contributors because they know fewer languages, nor should we allow people who know languages with small Wikipedias to write about whatever they want. Perhaps we could require that it be "possible to write a reasonable encyclopedic entry about the topic"? This, however, is incredibly vague, leaving a lot of wiggle room to sysops/RfD voters. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::It sounds like you are arguing for a right to be able to escape the notability criteria of Wikipedias by writing here. I'll flip that around to a question. If they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why ''should'' they be allowed to write about that specific topic here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:01, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :::The question to ask is why ''shouldn't'' they. It's a wiki, so you're able to add content by default. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:03, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Well, if they are allowed to write about anything technically possible, the same argument could go for what they write about it: "anything should be allowed, it's a wiki". I think that is a very weak argument in our movement, that's more of an argument for self-hosted wikis. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:23, 19 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I don't mean people should be able to write whatever they want, I mean, philosophically, the burden of proof should be on those who want to restrict. Blog-like content takes up space and bandwith, detracting from our mission of allowing everyone to share in the sum of human knowledge. I mean content should be blacklisted, not whitelisted. Your argument about "if they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why should they be allowed to write about that specific topic here?" requires more explanation to show why there should be an active prohibition. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:17, 19 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I was mainly thinking that since this specific topic won't be imported to English Wikipedia, and that particular user only could verify the (effectively useless) output in English, it just seem like a waste of everyone's time and resources. ::::::I'm not sure we need hard rules for checking the output, but I would really hope that when creating an article, there is a presumption that one should check that it looks okay in at least one language and not create them blindly and move on. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:52, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I think I agree with Ainali here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 18:40, 21 May 2026 (UTC) :I like the way the policy is right now. Abstract Wikipedia aims to be language-independent, so I don't think it should restrict itself to articles that have already been created in a specific language. Yes, it may abstract information present in existing articles some or even most of the time, but so long as <small>"[the item] refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable conceptual or material entity that can be described using serious and publicly available references"</small> I don't see why entirely new articles shouldn't be allowed. I think it's important to consider those without a Wikipedia in their language (albeit a minority) and more so those who come to Abstract Wikipedia to contribute information in a completely abstract way from the get-go. Some articles on the language Wikipedias are translated, while others are entirely new. Why should Abstract Wikipedia be any different? I'm not saying there should be articles for everything, but so long as a real article can be constructed, where's the harm? Ultimately it comes down to if the project should literally abstract and aggregate Wikipedia ''as we know it'', or if it should become its own universal collaborative encyclopedia. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 22:15, 22 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think you are touching on an important aspect. And the question I wonder about is: Are articles created here primarily meant to be consumed in client Wikipedias, or do we want ''this project'' to be where readers go?. If the second, I agree that it doesn't make sense to be restricted by existing articles in other languages (although then I think we need to establish proper notability criteria like the Wikipedias rather than Wikidata). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 09:35, 23 May 2026 (UTC) I would like the notability criteria still a bit sharper: # To be notable the Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability (as proposed above). # If oldest Wikipedia link is newer than 30 days (or so) the Abstract Wikipedia article may be speedily deleted. This is to prevent promotional articles. 30 days is longer as usual. AW would be a perfect place to spread promotion in all languages. This does NOT imply that the article SHOULD be deleted. It is perfectly acceptable to add a range of articles on a Wikipedia, Wikidata and Abstract Wikipedia in one flow, if the community think that is OK. # All facts mentioned in the Abstract Wikipedia article should be present in the linked Wikipedia(s), Wikidata or other Wikimedia projects articles, or closely related articles. This is to prevent fan cruft, only to be maintained in AW. # The provided output should be checked by the author. It should be OK in at least one of the languages the article author knows. I am in doubt what to do when new additions will break the output in for example English, or any language the author knows. PS: Babel templates on the user page would preferably be mandatory. :These proposal is not because I am an Deletionist. In fact I consider myself an Inclusionist. I really think this is needed to prevent promotional articles, unverified facts, articles that do not produce a proper sentence etc. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:09, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::I have to respectfully disagree. I definitely share your concern about spam/promotional articles, but I think you're adding too much work for editors. This is a volunteer project, and the number of people willing to contribute is already low, plus this proposal would just outsource the problem to other wikis. I haven't been convinced we can't adequately prevent spam just like other wikis do, by identifying the spam, nominating it for deletion, and having a sysop delete it. I think this proposal is sort of like [[w:Transportation Security Administration|TSA]] in the US, it wastes tens of millennia of human time per year and still only has a 20% success rate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:42, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :::My concern is that one edit can have a large affect. Like one promotional article will be shown o on ALL Wikipedia's (showing AW content), Like adding a complex sentence that only works for English, but will break the whole paragraph in all other languages, A bot operator adding thousands of articles that are poorly formatted, etc. etc. But all is open for discussion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:44, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Do you anticipate humans mainly checking these criteria, or should a bot check on sitelinks for example? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:17, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::My thought are that humans would check these. If bots can do it it would be very helpful of course. On the English WP any addition should be referenced, and the reference should contains the facts presented. This feels similar to me. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:34, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with Feeglgeef, this seems like something that would take a lot of manpower to enforce. Also, I think this reflects a "literally abstract Wikipedia" approach to the project. I'm curious if AW is solely meant to translate existing articles (the introduction suggests it's a replacement for machine translation) or if it should become its own language-independent Wikipedia (encouraging new information)? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:51, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think both are true: it requires existing sources, and summaries/relevances of the sources, in order to start; but inevitably it will be independent simply due to being a separate wiki, even if it is to be regarded as being mainly 'for' imports to natural language wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:11, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *Test case: One class of article I've been pondering is chemical compounds. I think they'd meet the current criteria, but not always the sharper criteria proposed above. A basic article for a molecule may be easier to write on AW than it is on any language, because many facts could be either drawn from Wikidata or templated as a calculation based on that data. This is the kind of article that even English Wiki might want to transclude. I'd be interested in hearing whether you think they are in or out. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:38, 27 May 2026 (UTC) i87gs7pcy54h6vcu83djkorebh3p3p4 8882 8881 2026-05-27T14:04:54Z Ainali 44 /* Suggesting even sharper criteria */ Reply 8882 wikitext text/x-wiki == Suggesting even sharper criteria == While the current proposal is a bit sharper than the Wikidata notability criteria, I would like to propose to have it even sharper. I think that a Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability. I think of two arguments for this. a) If no one bothered to write about it in ''any'' human language, is it really notable? b) Or perhaps they did, but it was deleted as not notable in all languages tried so far. Are we then opening some doors for people to still be able to "write" about very niche topics? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 19:10, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I'm inclined to agree. Writing an abstract article is much, much harder than writing a concrete article. If a topic truly is notable, the author can probably throw together an article in a Wikipedia of any of the languages they speak. If it does miss anything that is actually legitimate to include, well, we're not a bureaucracy, so we can just keep it. Perhaps a note that deletion should be avoided for articles that are obviously notable, but just don't have a concrete Wikipedia article. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:17, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't know if this is a great standard, since it would mean that our notability standard would depend on two factors on which I would rather not rely: (a) the languages the article author knows, and (b) the notability standards of other projects. English Wikipedia has quite high notability standards, so I can understand why someone would be less willing to make an article there. And if they only know English, they wouldn't be able to make one anywhere else. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 19:44, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::This is true, we shouldn't discriminate against prospective contributors because they know fewer languages, nor should we allow people who know languages with small Wikipedias to write about whatever they want. Perhaps we could require that it be "possible to write a reasonable encyclopedic entry about the topic"? This, however, is incredibly vague, leaving a lot of wiggle room to sysops/RfD voters. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::It sounds like you are arguing for a right to be able to escape the notability criteria of Wikipedias by writing here. I'll flip that around to a question. If they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why ''should'' they be allowed to write about that specific topic here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:01, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :::The question to ask is why ''shouldn't'' they. It's a wiki, so you're able to add content by default. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:03, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Well, if they are allowed to write about anything technically possible, the same argument could go for what they write about it: "anything should be allowed, it's a wiki". I think that is a very weak argument in our movement, that's more of an argument for self-hosted wikis. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:23, 19 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I don't mean people should be able to write whatever they want, I mean, philosophically, the burden of proof should be on those who want to restrict. Blog-like content takes up space and bandwith, detracting from our mission of allowing everyone to share in the sum of human knowledge. I mean content should be blacklisted, not whitelisted. Your argument about "if they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why should they be allowed to write about that specific topic here?" requires more explanation to show why there should be an active prohibition. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:17, 19 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I was mainly thinking that since this specific topic won't be imported to English Wikipedia, and that particular user only could verify the (effectively useless) output in English, it just seem like a waste of everyone's time and resources. ::::::I'm not sure we need hard rules for checking the output, but I would really hope that when creating an article, there is a presumption that one should check that it looks okay in at least one language and not create them blindly and move on. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:52, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I think I agree with Ainali here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 18:40, 21 May 2026 (UTC) :I like the way the policy is right now. Abstract Wikipedia aims to be language-independent, so I don't think it should restrict itself to articles that have already been created in a specific language. Yes, it may abstract information present in existing articles some or even most of the time, but so long as <small>"[the item] refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable conceptual or material entity that can be described using serious and publicly available references"</small> I don't see why entirely new articles shouldn't be allowed. I think it's important to consider those without a Wikipedia in their language (albeit a minority) and more so those who come to Abstract Wikipedia to contribute information in a completely abstract way from the get-go. Some articles on the language Wikipedias are translated, while others are entirely new. Why should Abstract Wikipedia be any different? I'm not saying there should be articles for everything, but so long as a real article can be constructed, where's the harm? Ultimately it comes down to if the project should literally abstract and aggregate Wikipedia ''as we know it'', or if it should become its own universal collaborative encyclopedia. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 22:15, 22 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think you are touching on an important aspect. And the question I wonder about is: Are articles created here primarily meant to be consumed in client Wikipedias, or do we want ''this project'' to be where readers go?. If the second, I agree that it doesn't make sense to be restricted by existing articles in other languages (although then I think we need to establish proper notability criteria like the Wikipedias rather than Wikidata). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 09:35, 23 May 2026 (UTC) I would like the notability criteria still a bit sharper: # To be notable the Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability (as proposed above). # If oldest Wikipedia link is newer than 30 days (or so) the Abstract Wikipedia article may be speedily deleted. This is to prevent promotional articles. 30 days is longer as usual. AW would be a perfect place to spread promotion in all languages. This does NOT imply that the article SHOULD be deleted. It is perfectly acceptable to add a range of articles on a Wikipedia, Wikidata and Abstract Wikipedia in one flow, if the community think that is OK. # All facts mentioned in the Abstract Wikipedia article should be present in the linked Wikipedia(s), Wikidata or other Wikimedia projects articles, or closely related articles. This is to prevent fan cruft, only to be maintained in AW. # The provided output should be checked by the author. It should be OK in at least one of the languages the article author knows. I am in doubt what to do when new additions will break the output in for example English, or any language the author knows. PS: Babel templates on the user page would preferably be mandatory. :These proposal is not because I am an Deletionist. In fact I consider myself an Inclusionist. I really think this is needed to prevent promotional articles, unverified facts, articles that do not produce a proper sentence etc. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:09, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::I have to respectfully disagree. I definitely share your concern about spam/promotional articles, but I think you're adding too much work for editors. This is a volunteer project, and the number of people willing to contribute is already low, plus this proposal would just outsource the problem to other wikis. I haven't been convinced we can't adequately prevent spam just like other wikis do, by identifying the spam, nominating it for deletion, and having a sysop delete it. I think this proposal is sort of like [[w:Transportation Security Administration|TSA]] in the US, it wastes tens of millennia of human time per year and still only has a 20% success rate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:42, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :::My concern is that one edit can have a large affect. Like one promotional article will be shown o on ALL Wikipedia's (showing AW content), Like adding a complex sentence that only works for English, but will break the whole paragraph in all other languages, A bot operator adding thousands of articles that are poorly formatted, etc. etc. But all is open for discussion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:44, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Do you anticipate humans mainly checking these criteria, or should a bot check on sitelinks for example? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:17, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::My thought are that humans would check these. If bots can do it it would be very helpful of course. On the English WP any addition should be referenced, and the reference should contains the facts presented. This feels similar to me. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:34, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with Feeglgeef, this seems like something that would take a lot of manpower to enforce. Also, I think this reflects a "literally abstract Wikipedia" approach to the project. I'm curious if AW is solely meant to translate existing articles (the introduction suggests it's a replacement for machine translation) or if it should become its own language-independent Wikipedia (encouraging new information)? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:51, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think both are true: it requires existing sources, and summaries/relevances of the sources, in order to start; but inevitably it will be independent simply due to being a separate wiki, even if it is to be regarded as being mainly 'for' imports to natural language wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:11, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *Test case: One class of article I've been pondering is chemical compounds. I think they'd meet the current criteria, but not always the sharper criteria proposed above. A basic article for a molecule may be easier to write on AW than it is on any language, because many facts could be either drawn from Wikidata or templated as a calculation based on that data. This is the kind of article that even English Wiki might want to transclude. I'd be interested in hearing whether you think they are in or out. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:38, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *:Interesting point. I think this could even be avoided if we get to create "template" articles here, but to be honest, I haven't heard about those in such a long time I am not sure if they are still in the road map. (As I remember them, we just create one template to reuse for all chemical compounds, soccer players, human settlements, etc. so that we don't need to "write" them separately, and also can improve them all at once.) <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) 1vjvq9icqjfazu9jb8353tkfrxxrkhj 8883 8882 2026-05-27T14:53:55Z HenkvD 1447 /* Suggesting even sharper criteria */ Reply 8883 wikitext text/x-wiki == Suggesting even sharper criteria == While the current proposal is a bit sharper than the Wikidata notability criteria, I would like to propose to have it even sharper. I think that a Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability. I think of two arguments for this. a) If no one bothered to write about it in ''any'' human language, is it really notable? b) Or perhaps they did, but it was deleted as not notable in all languages tried so far. Are we then opening some doors for people to still be able to "write" about very niche topics? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 19:10, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I'm inclined to agree. Writing an abstract article is much, much harder than writing a concrete article. If a topic truly is notable, the author can probably throw together an article in a Wikipedia of any of the languages they speak. If it does miss anything that is actually legitimate to include, well, we're not a bureaucracy, so we can just keep it. Perhaps a note that deletion should be avoided for articles that are obviously notable, but just don't have a concrete Wikipedia article. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:17, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't know if this is a great standard, since it would mean that our notability standard would depend on two factors on which I would rather not rely: (a) the languages the article author knows, and (b) the notability standards of other projects. English Wikipedia has quite high notability standards, so I can understand why someone would be less willing to make an article there. And if they only know English, they wouldn't be able to make one anywhere else. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 19:44, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::This is true, we shouldn't discriminate against prospective contributors because they know fewer languages, nor should we allow people who know languages with small Wikipedias to write about whatever they want. Perhaps we could require that it be "possible to write a reasonable encyclopedic entry about the topic"? This, however, is incredibly vague, leaving a lot of wiggle room to sysops/RfD voters. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::It sounds like you are arguing for a right to be able to escape the notability criteria of Wikipedias by writing here. I'll flip that around to a question. If they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why ''should'' they be allowed to write about that specific topic here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:01, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :::The question to ask is why ''shouldn't'' they. It's a wiki, so you're able to add content by default. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:03, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Well, if they are allowed to write about anything technically possible, the same argument could go for what they write about it: "anything should be allowed, it's a wiki". I think that is a very weak argument in our movement, that's more of an argument for self-hosted wikis. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:23, 19 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I don't mean people should be able to write whatever they want, I mean, philosophically, the burden of proof should be on those who want to restrict. Blog-like content takes up space and bandwith, detracting from our mission of allowing everyone to share in the sum of human knowledge. I mean content should be blacklisted, not whitelisted. Your argument about "if they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why should they be allowed to write about that specific topic here?" requires more explanation to show why there should be an active prohibition. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:17, 19 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I was mainly thinking that since this specific topic won't be imported to English Wikipedia, and that particular user only could verify the (effectively useless) output in English, it just seem like a waste of everyone's time and resources. ::::::I'm not sure we need hard rules for checking the output, but I would really hope that when creating an article, there is a presumption that one should check that it looks okay in at least one language and not create them blindly and move on. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:52, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I think I agree with Ainali here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 18:40, 21 May 2026 (UTC) :I like the way the policy is right now. Abstract Wikipedia aims to be language-independent, so I don't think it should restrict itself to articles that have already been created in a specific language. Yes, it may abstract information present in existing articles some or even most of the time, but so long as <small>"[the item] refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable conceptual or material entity that can be described using serious and publicly available references"</small> I don't see why entirely new articles shouldn't be allowed. I think it's important to consider those without a Wikipedia in their language (albeit a minority) and more so those who come to Abstract Wikipedia to contribute information in a completely abstract way from the get-go. Some articles on the language Wikipedias are translated, while others are entirely new. Why should Abstract Wikipedia be any different? I'm not saying there should be articles for everything, but so long as a real article can be constructed, where's the harm? Ultimately it comes down to if the project should literally abstract and aggregate Wikipedia ''as we know it'', or if it should become its own universal collaborative encyclopedia. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 22:15, 22 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think you are touching on an important aspect. And the question I wonder about is: Are articles created here primarily meant to be consumed in client Wikipedias, or do we want ''this project'' to be where readers go?. If the second, I agree that it doesn't make sense to be restricted by existing articles in other languages (although then I think we need to establish proper notability criteria like the Wikipedias rather than Wikidata). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 09:35, 23 May 2026 (UTC) I would like the notability criteria still a bit sharper: # To be notable the Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability (as proposed above). # If oldest Wikipedia link is newer than 30 days (or so) the Abstract Wikipedia article may be speedily deleted. This is to prevent promotional articles. 30 days is longer as usual. AW would be a perfect place to spread promotion in all languages. This does NOT imply that the article SHOULD be deleted. It is perfectly acceptable to add a range of articles on a Wikipedia, Wikidata and Abstract Wikipedia in one flow, if the community think that is OK. # All facts mentioned in the Abstract Wikipedia article should be present in the linked Wikipedia(s), Wikidata or other Wikimedia projects articles, or closely related articles. This is to prevent fan cruft, only to be maintained in AW. # The provided output should be checked by the author. It should be OK in at least one of the languages the article author knows. I am in doubt what to do when new additions will break the output in for example English, or any language the author knows. PS: Babel templates on the user page would preferably be mandatory. :These proposal is not because I am an Deletionist. In fact I consider myself an Inclusionist. I really think this is needed to prevent promotional articles, unverified facts, articles that do not produce a proper sentence etc. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:09, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::I have to respectfully disagree. I definitely share your concern about spam/promotional articles, but I think you're adding too much work for editors. This is a volunteer project, and the number of people willing to contribute is already low, plus this proposal would just outsource the problem to other wikis. I haven't been convinced we can't adequately prevent spam just like other wikis do, by identifying the spam, nominating it for deletion, and having a sysop delete it. I think this proposal is sort of like [[w:Transportation Security Administration|TSA]] in the US, it wastes tens of millennia of human time per year and still only has a 20% success rate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:42, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :::My concern is that one edit can have a large affect. Like one promotional article will be shown o on ALL Wikipedia's (showing AW content), Like adding a complex sentence that only works for English, but will break the whole paragraph in all other languages, A bot operator adding thousands of articles that are poorly formatted, etc. etc. But all is open for discussion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:44, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Do you anticipate humans mainly checking these criteria, or should a bot check on sitelinks for example? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:17, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::My thought are that humans would check these. If bots can do it it would be very helpful of course. On the English WP any addition should be referenced, and the reference should contains the facts presented. This feels similar to me. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:34, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with Feeglgeef, this seems like something that would take a lot of manpower to enforce. Also, I think this reflects a "literally abstract Wikipedia" approach to the project. I'm curious if AW is solely meant to translate existing articles (the introduction suggests it's a replacement for machine translation) or if it should become its own language-independent Wikipedia (encouraging new information)? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:51, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think both are true: it requires existing sources, and summaries/relevances of the sources, in order to start; but inevitably it will be independent simply due to being a separate wiki, even if it is to be regarded as being mainly 'for' imports to natural language wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:11, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *Test case: One class of article I've been pondering is chemical compounds. I think they'd meet the current criteria, but not always the sharper criteria proposed above. A basic article for a molecule may be easier to write on AW than it is on any language, because many facts could be either drawn from Wikidata or templated as a calculation based on that data. This is the kind of article that even English Wiki might want to transclude. I'd be interested in hearing whether you think they are in or out. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:38, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *:Interesting point. I think this could even be avoided if we get to create "template" articles here, but to be honest, I haven't heard about those in such a long time I am not sure if they are still in the road map. (As I remember them, we just create one template to reuse for all chemical compounds, soccer players, human settlements, etc. so that we don't need to "write" them separately, and also can improve them all at once.) <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *:The only criteria that would be blocking here is to have at least one Wikipedia language sitelink. I see the chemical compounds to be an addition to the English Wikipedia I think it is very unlikely that English Wikipedia, or any large Wikipedia will consider to allow AW entries in their Wikipedia. And maybe a request for exceptions can be honored in case by case basis. In my opinion it is very useful to have this rule to prevent promotional articles. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:53, 27 May 2026 (UTC) igz9imr7rbcf4453r4ccqwmb8jrqb09 8884 8883 2026-05-27T14:55:05Z HenkvD 1447 8884 wikitext text/x-wiki == Suggesting even sharper criteria == While the current proposal is a bit sharper than the Wikidata notability criteria, I would like to propose to have it even sharper. I think that a Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability. I think of two arguments for this. a) If no one bothered to write about it in ''any'' human language, is it really notable? b) Or perhaps they did, but it was deleted as not notable in all languages tried so far. Are we then opening some doors for people to still be able to "write" about very niche topics? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 19:10, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I'm inclined to agree. Writing an abstract article is much, much harder than writing a concrete article. If a topic truly is notable, the author can probably throw together an article in a Wikipedia of any of the languages they speak. If it does miss anything that is actually legitimate to include, well, we're not a bureaucracy, so we can just keep it. Perhaps a note that deletion should be avoided for articles that are obviously notable, but just don't have a concrete Wikipedia article. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:17, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't know if this is a great standard, since it would mean that our notability standard would depend on two factors on which I would rather not rely: (a) the languages the article author knows, and (b) the notability standards of other projects. English Wikipedia has quite high notability standards, so I can understand why someone would be less willing to make an article there. And if they only know English, they wouldn't be able to make one anywhere else. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 19:44, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::This is true, we shouldn't discriminate against prospective contributors because they know fewer languages, nor should we allow people who know languages with small Wikipedias to write about whatever they want. Perhaps we could require that it be "possible to write a reasonable encyclopedic entry about the topic"? This, however, is incredibly vague, leaving a lot of wiggle room to sysops/RfD voters. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::It sounds like you are arguing for a right to be able to escape the notability criteria of Wikipedias by writing here. I'll flip that around to a question. If they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why ''should'' they be allowed to write about that specific topic here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:01, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :::The question to ask is why ''shouldn't'' they. It's a wiki, so you're able to add content by default. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:03, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Well, if they are allowed to write about anything technically possible, the same argument could go for what they write about it: "anything should be allowed, it's a wiki". I think that is a very weak argument in our movement, that's more of an argument for self-hosted wikis. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:23, 19 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I don't mean people should be able to write whatever they want, I mean, philosophically, the burden of proof should be on those who want to restrict. Blog-like content takes up space and bandwith, detracting from our mission of allowing everyone to share in the sum of human knowledge. I mean content should be blacklisted, not whitelisted. Your argument about "if they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why should they be allowed to write about that specific topic here?" requires more explanation to show why there should be an active prohibition. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:17, 19 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I was mainly thinking that since this specific topic won't be imported to English Wikipedia, and that particular user only could verify the (effectively useless) output in English, it just seem like a waste of everyone's time and resources. ::::::I'm not sure we need hard rules for checking the output, but I would really hope that when creating an article, there is a presumption that one should check that it looks okay in at least one language and not create them blindly and move on. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:52, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I think I agree with Ainali here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 18:40, 21 May 2026 (UTC) :I like the way the policy is right now. Abstract Wikipedia aims to be language-independent, so I don't think it should restrict itself to articles that have already been created in a specific language. Yes, it may abstract information present in existing articles some or even most of the time, but so long as <small>"[the item] refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable conceptual or material entity that can be described using serious and publicly available references"</small> I don't see why entirely new articles shouldn't be allowed. I think it's important to consider those without a Wikipedia in their language (albeit a minority) and more so those who come to Abstract Wikipedia to contribute information in a completely abstract way from the get-go. Some articles on the language Wikipedias are translated, while others are entirely new. Why should Abstract Wikipedia be any different? I'm not saying there should be articles for everything, but so long as a real article can be constructed, where's the harm? Ultimately it comes down to if the project should literally abstract and aggregate Wikipedia ''as we know it'', or if it should become its own universal collaborative encyclopedia. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 22:15, 22 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think you are touching on an important aspect. And the question I wonder about is: Are articles created here primarily meant to be consumed in client Wikipedias, or do we want ''this project'' to be where readers go?. If the second, I agree that it doesn't make sense to be restricted by existing articles in other languages (although then I think we need to establish proper notability criteria like the Wikipedias rather than Wikidata). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 09:35, 23 May 2026 (UTC) I would like the notability criteria still a bit sharper: # To be notable the Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability (as proposed above). # If oldest Wikipedia link is newer than 30 days (or so) the Abstract Wikipedia article may be speedily deleted. This is to prevent promotional articles. 30 days is longer as usual. AW would be a perfect place to spread promotion in all languages. This does NOT imply that the article SHOULD be deleted. It is perfectly acceptable to add a range of articles on a Wikipedia, Wikidata and Abstract Wikipedia in one flow, if the community think that is OK. # All facts mentioned in the Abstract Wikipedia article should be present in the linked Wikipedia(s), Wikidata or other Wikimedia projects articles, or closely related articles. This is to prevent fan cruft, only to be maintained in AW. # The provided output should be checked by the author. It should be OK in at least one of the languages the article author knows. I am in doubt what to do when new additions will break the output in for example English, or any language the author knows. PS: Babel templates on the user page would preferably be mandatory. :These proposal is not because I am an Deletionist. In fact I consider myself an Inclusionist. I really think this is needed to prevent promotional articles, unverified facts, articles that do not produce a proper sentence etc. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:09, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::I have to respectfully disagree. I definitely share your concern about spam/promotional articles, but I think you're adding too much work for editors. This is a volunteer project, and the number of people willing to contribute is already low, plus this proposal would just outsource the problem to other wikis. I haven't been convinced we can't adequately prevent spam just like other wikis do, by identifying the spam, nominating it for deletion, and having a sysop delete it. I think this proposal is sort of like [[w:Transportation Security Administration|TSA]] in the US, it wastes tens of millennia of human time per year and still only has a 20% success rate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:42, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :::My concern is that one edit can have a large affect. Like one promotional article will be shown o on ALL Wikipedia's (showing AW content), Like adding a complex sentence that only works for English, but will break the whole paragraph in all other languages, A bot operator adding thousands of articles that are poorly formatted, etc. etc. But all is open for discussion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:44, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Do you anticipate humans mainly checking these criteria, or should a bot check on sitelinks for example? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:17, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::My thought are that humans would check these. If bots can do it it would be very helpful of course. On the English WP any addition should be referenced, and the reference should contains the facts presented. This feels similar to me. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:34, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with Feeglgeef, this seems like something that would take a lot of manpower to enforce. Also, I think this reflects a "literally abstract Wikipedia" approach to the project. I'm curious if AW is solely meant to translate existing articles (the introduction suggests it's a replacement for machine translation) or if it should become its own language-independent Wikipedia (encouraging new information)? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:51, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think both are true: it requires existing sources, and summaries/relevances of the sources, in order to start; but inevitably it will be independent simply due to being a separate wiki, even if it is to be regarded as being mainly 'for' imports to natural language wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:11, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *Test case: One class of article I've been pondering is chemical compounds. I think they'd meet the current criteria, but not always the sharper criteria proposed above. A basic article for a molecule may be easier to write on AW than it is on any language, because many facts could be either drawn from Wikidata or templated as a calculation based on that data. This is the kind of article that even English Wiki might want to transclude. I'd be interested in hearing whether you think they are in or out. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:38, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *:Interesting point. I think this could even be avoided if we get to create "template" articles here, but to be honest, I haven't heard about those in such a long time I am not sure if they are still in the road map. (As I remember them, we just create one template to reuse for all chemical compounds, soccer players, human settlements, etc. so that we don't need to "write" them separately, and also can improve them all at once.) <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *::The only criteria that would be blocking here is to have at least one Wikipedia language sitelink. I see the chemical compounds to be an addition to the English Wikipedia I think it is very unlikely that English Wikipedia, or any large Wikipedia will consider to allow AW entries in their Wikipedia. And maybe a request for exceptions can be honored in case by case basis. In my opinion it is very useful to have this rule to prevent promotional articles. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:53, 27 May 2026 (UTC) cf8mmv1wk4lxll51s56erni3ri6o5it 8885 8884 2026-05-27T15:06:44Z Arlo Barnes 953 /* Suggesting even sharper criteria */ Reply 8885 wikitext text/x-wiki == Suggesting even sharper criteria == While the current proposal is a bit sharper than the Wikidata notability criteria, I would like to propose to have it even sharper. I think that a Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability. I think of two arguments for this. a) If no one bothered to write about it in ''any'' human language, is it really notable? b) Or perhaps they did, but it was deleted as not notable in all languages tried so far. Are we then opening some doors for people to still be able to "write" about very niche topics? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 19:10, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I'm inclined to agree. Writing an abstract article is much, much harder than writing a concrete article. If a topic truly is notable, the author can probably throw together an article in a Wikipedia of any of the languages they speak. If it does miss anything that is actually legitimate to include, well, we're not a bureaucracy, so we can just keep it. Perhaps a note that deletion should be avoided for articles that are obviously notable, but just don't have a concrete Wikipedia article. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:17, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't know if this is a great standard, since it would mean that our notability standard would depend on two factors on which I would rather not rely: (a) the languages the article author knows, and (b) the notability standards of other projects. English Wikipedia has quite high notability standards, so I can understand why someone would be less willing to make an article there. And if they only know English, they wouldn't be able to make one anywhere else. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 19:44, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::This is true, we shouldn't discriminate against prospective contributors because they know fewer languages, nor should we allow people who know languages with small Wikipedias to write about whatever they want. Perhaps we could require that it be "possible to write a reasonable encyclopedic entry about the topic"? This, however, is incredibly vague, leaving a lot of wiggle room to sysops/RfD voters. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::It sounds like you are arguing for a right to be able to escape the notability criteria of Wikipedias by writing here. I'll flip that around to a question. If they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why ''should'' they be allowed to write about that specific topic here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:01, 18 May 2026 (UTC) :::The question to ask is why ''shouldn't'' they. It's a wiki, so you're able to add content by default. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:03, 18 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Well, if they are allowed to write about anything technically possible, the same argument could go for what they write about it: "anything should be allowed, it's a wiki". I think that is a very weak argument in our movement, that's more of an argument for self-hosted wikis. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:23, 19 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I don't mean people should be able to write whatever they want, I mean, philosophically, the burden of proof should be on those who want to restrict. Blog-like content takes up space and bandwith, detracting from our mission of allowing everyone to share in the sum of human knowledge. I mean content should be blacklisted, not whitelisted. Your argument about "if they only know English, and can't write about the topic on English Wikipedia, why should they be allowed to write about that specific topic here?" requires more explanation to show why there should be an active prohibition. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:17, 19 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I was mainly thinking that since this specific topic won't be imported to English Wikipedia, and that particular user only could verify the (effectively useless) output in English, it just seem like a waste of everyone's time and resources. ::::::I'm not sure we need hard rules for checking the output, but I would really hope that when creating an article, there is a presumption that one should check that it looks okay in at least one language and not create them blindly and move on. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:52, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I think I agree with Ainali here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 18:40, 21 May 2026 (UTC) :I like the way the policy is right now. Abstract Wikipedia aims to be language-independent, so I don't think it should restrict itself to articles that have already been created in a specific language. Yes, it may abstract information present in existing articles some or even most of the time, but so long as <small>"[the item] refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable conceptual or material entity that can be described using serious and publicly available references"</small> I don't see why entirely new articles shouldn't be allowed. I think it's important to consider those without a Wikipedia in their language (albeit a minority) and more so those who come to Abstract Wikipedia to contribute information in a completely abstract way from the get-go. Some articles on the language Wikipedias are translated, while others are entirely new. Why should Abstract Wikipedia be any different? I'm not saying there should be articles for everything, but so long as a real article can be constructed, where's the harm? Ultimately it comes down to if the project should literally abstract and aggregate Wikipedia ''as we know it'', or if it should become its own universal collaborative encyclopedia. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 22:15, 22 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think you are touching on an important aspect. And the question I wonder about is: Are articles created here primarily meant to be consumed in client Wikipedias, or do we want ''this project'' to be where readers go?. If the second, I agree that it doesn't make sense to be restricted by existing articles in other languages (although then I think we need to establish proper notability criteria like the Wikipedias rather than Wikidata). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 09:35, 23 May 2026 (UTC) I would like the notability criteria still a bit sharper: # To be notable the Wikidata item should need at least one Wikipedia language sitelink to have Abstract notability (as proposed above). # If oldest Wikipedia link is newer than 30 days (or so) the Abstract Wikipedia article may be speedily deleted. This is to prevent promotional articles. 30 days is longer as usual. AW would be a perfect place to spread promotion in all languages. This does NOT imply that the article SHOULD be deleted. It is perfectly acceptable to add a range of articles on a Wikipedia, Wikidata and Abstract Wikipedia in one flow, if the community think that is OK. # All facts mentioned in the Abstract Wikipedia article should be present in the linked Wikipedia(s), Wikidata or other Wikimedia projects articles, or closely related articles. This is to prevent fan cruft, only to be maintained in AW. # The provided output should be checked by the author. It should be OK in at least one of the languages the article author knows. I am in doubt what to do when new additions will break the output in for example English, or any language the author knows. PS: Babel templates on the user page would preferably be mandatory. :These proposal is not because I am an Deletionist. In fact I consider myself an Inclusionist. I really think this is needed to prevent promotional articles, unverified facts, articles that do not produce a proper sentence etc. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:09, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::I have to respectfully disagree. I definitely share your concern about spam/promotional articles, but I think you're adding too much work for editors. This is a volunteer project, and the number of people willing to contribute is already low, plus this proposal would just outsource the problem to other wikis. I haven't been convinced we can't adequately prevent spam just like other wikis do, by identifying the spam, nominating it for deletion, and having a sysop delete it. I think this proposal is sort of like [[w:Transportation Security Administration|TSA]] in the US, it wastes tens of millennia of human time per year and still only has a 20% success rate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:42, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :::My concern is that one edit can have a large affect. Like one promotional article will be shown o on ALL Wikipedia's (showing AW content), Like adding a complex sentence that only works for English, but will break the whole paragraph in all other languages, A bot operator adding thousands of articles that are poorly formatted, etc. etc. But all is open for discussion. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 08:44, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Do you anticipate humans mainly checking these criteria, or should a bot check on sitelinks for example? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:17, 26 May 2026 (UTC) ::My thought are that humans would check these. If bots can do it it would be very helpful of course. On the English WP any addition should be referenced, and the reference should contains the facts presented. This feels similar to me. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 22:34, 26 May 2026 (UTC) :I agree with Feeglgeef, this seems like something that would take a lot of manpower to enforce. Also, I think this reflects a "literally abstract Wikipedia" approach to the project. I'm curious if AW is solely meant to translate existing articles (the introduction suggests it's a replacement for machine translation) or if it should become its own language-independent Wikipedia (encouraging new information)? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 01:51, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::I think both are true: it requires existing sources, and summaries/relevances of the sources, in order to start; but inevitably it will be independent simply due to being a separate wiki, even if it is to be regarded as being mainly 'for' imports to natural language wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:11, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *Test case: One class of article I've been pondering is chemical compounds. I think they'd meet the current criteria, but not always the sharper criteria proposed above. A basic article for a molecule may be easier to write on AW than it is on any language, because many facts could be either drawn from Wikidata or templated as a calculation based on that data. This is the kind of article that even English Wiki might want to transclude. I'd be interested in hearing whether you think they are in or out. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 12:38, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *:Interesting point. I think this could even be avoided if we get to create "template" articles here, but to be honest, I haven't heard about those in such a long time I am not sure if they are still in the road map. (As I remember them, we just create one template to reuse for all chemical compounds, soccer players, human settlements, etc. so that we don't need to "write" them separately, and also can improve them all at once.) <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 14:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *::The only criteria that would be blocking here is to have at least one Wikipedia language sitelink. I see the chemical compounds to be an addition to the English Wikipedia I think it is very unlikely that English Wikipedia, or any large Wikipedia will consider to allow AW entries in their Wikipedia. And maybe a request for exceptions can be honored in case by case basis. In my opinion it is very useful to have this rule to prevent promotional articles. [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 14:53, 27 May 2026 (UTC) *:::I don't really see how natural language wikis could prevent copying and pasting from rendered output of an abstract article; as long as the attribution is intact, it would be analogous to copying from a public domain ''Britannica'' article. But probably most would turn off the option to import automatically. 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Welcome to '''[[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Abstract Wikipedia]]'''! View the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Community portal|Community portal]] or post to the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] if you need help with something. Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki>; this will automatically insert your username and the date. Happy editing! </div> </div><!-- Template:Welcome -->[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:54, 27 May 2026 (UTC) nnxegrfs0fe097r0wh5gryyhtaxpwwe