Abstract Wikipedia abstractwiki https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page MediaWiki 1.47.0-wmf.4 first-letter Media Special Talk User User talk Abstract Wikipedia Abstract Wikipedia talk File File talk MediaWiki MediaWiki talk Template Template talk Help Help talk Category Category talk TimedText TimedText talk Module Module talk Translations Translations talk 4 6 9045 9008 2026-05-29T12:00:28Z HenkvD 1447 /* Marking NLG Default text */ new section 9045 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text an the requested language. I propose to mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) rav0iwtznipx1jj695xlhns6jgxbd9m 9046 9045 2026-05-29T12:01:49Z HenkvD 1447 /* Marking NLG Default text */ 9046 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) qb4ogdtcq1ge3v0wkudhordq86b1lt0 9101 9046 2026-05-29T14:59:19Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Marking NLG Default text */ Reply 9101 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages" (which is a bit of an oxymoron, except for the fact that it's not just two words, whatever). I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) 29fe60yo9tumxuksfdq1ykduyh8j7b7 9102 9101 2026-05-29T14:59:33Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Marking NLG Default text */ 9102 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) 57pgjnj8tgvpw76pb8ubsxxdul9kk91 9103 9102 2026-05-29T15:59:15Z HenkvD 1447 /* Marking NLG Default text */ Reply 9103 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) kzxgmrkvak37wkihsda8xarmuhy96q8 9105 9103 2026-05-29T20:50:39Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Marking NLG Default text */ Reply 9105 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) 08wpe9cfiynm10ahf4mygbkuo78brlb 9106 9105 2026-05-29T20:55:05Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? */ new section 9106 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) 19c8tvyx40putdcjp3ui75kckulxgls 9108 9106 2026-05-30T04:32:01Z Theki 2698 bye 9108 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) bzxj43zc3627ingksg2rpdenpz7imj0 9109 9108 2026-05-30T04:33:22Z Theki 2698 9109 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) kba3dg4xozjnflqra0vgzr3k8gnm0xe 9112 9109 2026-05-30T04:34:20Z Theki 2698 archiving, one at a time because im not an efficient robot unfortunately 9112 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) bvzhrg9262gwr9o4dlmw5gs9q0fp8w1 9114 9112 2026-05-30T04:35:28Z Theki 2698 /* Representing "part of" */ 9114 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) m9dsux8ngvisz6ar5jzo6dxlj1vyt1x 9116 9114 2026-05-30T04:36:31Z Theki 2698 9116 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) jy1t4j7uw8e8elhrumiu4f3vfsg85jw 9118 9116 2026-05-30T04:37:05Z Theki 2698 9118 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) 6b4vf1p3gc94jgtdxf6v6u7aqlg4h29 9120 9118 2026-05-30T04:37:49Z Theki 2698 9120 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) p7escv5a8dl7bm7pqx5uj6p2fa6j6yt 9122 9120 2026-05-30T04:39:27Z Theki 2698 9122 wikitext text/x-wiki {{/Header}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) b01n43ecyo5fu0zm0eutwuplb2dqzzw 9124 9122 2026-05-30T04:52:02Z Theki 2698 9124 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ls3adrf5e8qwejw8epyweh24eyf0455 9156 9124 2026-05-30T07:13:00Z Bunnypranav 929 /* Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? */ Reply 9156 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ku3bgulxtxgfh1ygt6233lozhe8amq5 9157 9156 2026-05-30T07:49:33Z Koavf 723 /* Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? */ Reply 9157 wikitext text/x-wiki {{#ifexist:Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}|{{/Header/{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}|{{/Header}}}} {{/Archives}} <!-- Add your discussion below this line --> == Why don't we just structure this with wikitemplates? == I feel like the project could be done a lot better by using templates kind of like how wikipedia does them. Just the entire thing is templates that can be rendered in many languages. So like [[Q106289265]] would have the content <nowiki>{{Z26039|Q7257}}</nowiki> and could even have some aliasing done across languages so it could be <nowiki>{{subject is|Q7257}}</nowiki>. Code would be editable with a regular visual editor or code editor. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:34, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :This is available in pages when Parsoid rendering is enabled. We don't use this becuase it doesn't make sense for constructing and editing massive articles. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::How do you do parsoid rendering? And why wouldn't it make sense? With aliases and everything could work great. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::I believe it is enabled by default. If you do have it on: {{#function:Z10000|you'll s|ee this}} [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:54, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :you may be interested in reading this old [[m:Abstract_Wikipedia/Google.org_Fellows_evaluation|Google report]]. [[User:BrokenSegue|BrokenSegue]] ([[User talk:BrokenSegue|talk]]) 14:32, 9 May 2026 (UTC) == Why the editing API doesn't work == {{tracked|T423542}} Immanuelle wrongly stated that there is no REST API for editing. [[#REST API for editing?|There is]]. However, it does not work when called from software outside Abstract Wikipedia. That is because there is no way to grant a bot password or OAuth customer the permission to edit abstract articles (<code>wikilambda-abstract-edit</code>) and create them (<code>wikilambda-abstract-create</code>), since no grant on [[Special:ListGrants]] includes either. Should this be fixed? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:57, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Yes I think the rights should be added. I think the number of automated edits should be low at the moment as Abstract Wikipedia is still in an early phase and so far there is not much support for small languages and so many functions will maybe change to cover more languages. As automatic editing using a Bot Account requires an formal request it is no problem if the option exists. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:17, 26 April 2026 (UTC) :Sounds good to me. Could we add a bot section to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Requests for permissions]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:35, 5 May 2026 (UTC) ::[[Abstract_Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions#Bot]] ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 23:56, 5 May 2026 (UTC) == Q884 == The page [[Q884]] has inaccurate statements about the head of government and the head of state of South Korea. Part of what it returns in English is "Lee Ju-ho is the head of government of South Korea.Park Geun-hye is the head of state of South Korea." However, neither Lee Ju-ho nor Park Geun-hye currently have their respective roles mentioned here. How should these statements be turned into ones using the past tense? [[User:Intolerable situation|Intolerable situation]] ([[User talk:Intolerable situation|talk]]) 14:44, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :not currently possible :((((( [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:46, 30 April 2026 (UTC) :Feeglgeef is correct, past tense sentence generation is something we are sorely lacking at the moment. If you look at [[f:WF:Type proposals#Representing abstract content|Wikifunctions' type proposals]] you can see some initiatives that could hopefully mitigate this. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:49, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia should use a different mw-wiki-logo than Wikipedia for Vector 2010 skin == {{Tracked|T424781}} Hello friends. I've been asked to start a community conversation about this. I'd like to propose that Abstract Wikipedia create its own logo, so that folks visiting this wiki don't get it mixed up with Wikipedia. Even though this project is under the Wikipedia domain, I think it's pretty unique and it'd make sense to make sure it doesn't get mixed up with enwiki or other Wikipedias by newbies googling for Wikipedia articles. Thoughts? Thanks. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :Isn't there already one? Are we talking about a logo in a different context? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Looks like this is just for the Vector 2010 skin. [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Main_page?useskin=vector Example.] I'll edit this section and the ticket to clarify that. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 12:28, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you, I'd {{s}} this then. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 12:31, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This has been raised before above in [[#Logo]], the same problem appears on Monobook. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 13:45, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Would you support using [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/static/images/mobile/copyright/abstractwiki-wordmark.svg the Vector 2022 logo] on Vector 2010 and Monobook? That'd be a simple technical solution. [[User:Novem Linguae|Novem Linguae]] ([[User talk:Novem Linguae|talk]]) 14:02, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, I see no issue with using that for the moment. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:04, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == What would it take for AW to catch up to (English) Reasonator? Porting over functions? == The Wikidata tool [https://reasonator.toolforge.org Reasonator] already automatically creates several sentences in English describing human Wikidata items using [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/commit/b506362c3c2e90b32de32708ec668eee49603cb0 auto_long_desc.js] under [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/LICENSE a GPL 2.0 free software license] without using any large language model or other AI. Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, requires [[Help:How to create an article/en|a several step process just to create a lead sentence]]. Does Resonator have functions in [https://codeberg.org/magnusmanske/reasonator/src/commit/a6ee9095c3accfb67845caf438ce83c98c19e38e/public_html/auto_long_desc.js#L406 the English section of auto_long_desc.js] that Wikifunctions doesn't have at the moment? Is that what's preventing Abstract Wikipedia from auto-generating substantial text (at least in English) based off of Wikidata like Resonator does? Below is [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?q=Q1339&lang=en an example of what Resonator can generate from Wikidata] without needing human edits the way Abstract Wikipedia does. (Though I omitted some children for the sake of brevity.) <blockquote> '''Johann Sebastian Bach''' was a [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=696651 Saxe-Eisenach]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12548 Holy Roman Empire]-[https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=183 German] [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=36834 composer], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=765778 organist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=5371902 harpsichordist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1259917 violinist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=899758 violist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=158852 conductor], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1076502 choir director], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=691031 concertmaster], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=14915627 musicologist], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=16145150 music educator], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=214970 virtuoso], and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2251335 school teacher]. He was born on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1685-03-21 March 21, 1685] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=7070 Eisenach] to [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=309470 Johann Ambrosius Bach] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=66671 Maria Elisabeth Lämmerhirt]. He studied at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1930161 St. Michael's School] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1702-04 April 1702]. His field of work included [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=8361 Baroque music] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=9730 classical music]. He was [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=215793 chapelmaster] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1717-12 December 1717] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723-04 April 1723] and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=641457 Thomaskantor] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1723 1723] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750 1750]. He worked for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=117540 Collegium Musicum], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=1230608 Saint Blaise], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61689 Leopold, Prince of Anhalt-Köthen], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=61972 Johann Ernst III, Duke of Saxe-Weimar] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-01 January 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703], for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=699668 Thomasschule zu Leipzig], and for [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=798194 Bachkirche Arnstadt] from [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1703-08 August 1703] until [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707 1707]. He married [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57487 Maria Barbara Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1707-10-17 October 17, 1707] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1720-07-07 July 7, 1720] ) and [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=57212 Anna Magdalena Bach] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1721-12-03 December 3, 1721] (married until on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] ). His children include [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=15079141 Catharina Dorothea Bach], [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=107277 Wilhelm Friedemann Bach], […] He died of [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=12202 stroke] on [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?date=1750-07-28 July 28, 1750] in [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=2079 Leipzig]. He was buried at [https://reasonator.toolforge.org/?&q=170402 St. Thomas Church]. </blockquote> [[User:Lovelano|Lovelano]] ([[User talk:Lovelano|talk]]) 18:41, 1 May 2026 (UTC) == Project scope == Might be a stupid question but what articles are/will be allowed on Abstract Wikipedia? How far is it meant to expand? The language Wikipedias have some differing policies, so might not be as simple as copying those. Personally I find the idea of creating an article for any and every Wikidata item really cool and a good ''baseline'' for what can have an article, but wouldn't ~120 million abstract articles become unwieldy? If the only requirement is that the article topic has a Wikidata item, then there are many interesting possibilities; one could write about individual dates, Wikidata test items, even Wikimedia disambiguation pages. Have not found where this is explained, if anywhere. This may be up to common sense, but trouble is, couldn't one create an encyclopedically meaningful article on just about anything? Pretty important policy not to have if it's undecided, though is not a problem at the moment. Just wondering. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 23:36, 1 May 2026 (UTC) :This isn't a stupid question and I don't think this is entirely settled. Have you seen [[Abstract Wikipedia:About]]? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:57, 1 May 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, I forgot about that page. So it is meant to abstract information from existing Wikipedia articles? Makes sense, though it still raises the question of creating new articles. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 00:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::At this juncture, I don't think anyone has in mind drafting anything new here as such: this is just responding to existing Wikidata items and the possibility of new Wikipedia articles drafted from them, using Wikifunctions. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 00:51, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I don't think we ever get any article an existing wiki does not have. Even if abstract content creation gets as fast as reasonably possible, it will never beat out typing text, so we will never catch up with, say, enwiki or eswiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's also a question of policy. There are topics about which things could be said, but which wouldn't meet the baseline notability or other criteria of the big monolingual wikis. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::This is true, if we keep [[d:]]'s notability policy (which seems like the most natural one) then there are many subjects that we theoretically can talk about that don't meet the [[w:WP:GNG|GNG]] and similar guidelines. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) == How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors == This is a response to the call in [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02]]. The most important thing to count is already listed there: '''How many articles in how many languages are actually fully available without errors?''' It should be not just a count, but a list: I want to see which articles are readable in which languages; which articles are readable in some languages, but not others (which ones?); which articles are not readable in any language; etc. An even more relevant, but much harder to measure thing is how many of those articles are actually more useful than not having an article at all. There is no article about Boston in many languages, but [[Q100]], which currently says "Boston is the capital of Massachusetts.Boston is the largest city of Massachusetts." is not significantly more useful than nothing at all even if it's fully rendered in another language in which there is no concrete article about it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:12, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Perhaps this should have been on the talk page of that status update instead of the project chat? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:25, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The status update is about two projects and so I can understand if there are comments here. What do you think about creating a status update overview page with links to the status updates in Abstract Wikipedia to offer the possibility to discuss the status updates and especially things related to Abstract Wikipedia there. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 18:57, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :::I don't think that's necessary. You can just include your abstractwiki (as in, the live wiki, not the project) related comments on the page on [[f:]], or, if for some reason that's not possible, as a reply to the newsletter announcement here. The point is, the project chat is crowded enough with topics as it is, ideally it should be more focussed on general matters of discussion than close-ended enquiries about topics that have their own talk page. I find Amire80's use of a new == heading here to be improper. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:32, 4 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #246 is out: Request for input: what should we count for Abstract Wikipedia == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we ask you what would be the relevant metrics for Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest news on Composition Language v2, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 12:21, 2 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Spaces between sentences, another attempt == [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Extra spaces between sentences|A month ago]], @[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]]<ref group="spaces3>According to Google Translate, it's pronounced "Nèicún yìchū de māo". Please correct me if it's wrong. When I write, I want to know how are things that I write pronounced aloud, and very unfortunately, I never learned to read Chinese characters, and even if I did, most English speakers probably didn't. Come to think of it, is there a function that ''reliably'' transliterates Chinese characters?</ref> That discussion doesn't seem to have yielded any fixes or meaningful discussions, at least not that I can see. [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#Spaces between sentences|Two weeks ago]], I tried to bring up a similar topic, but that discussion somehow got derailed and also didn't yield anything useful. Now, the problem looks differently, but it's still a problem. When I look at [[Q10251]], for example, what I see is four sentences that ''appear'' with ''no'' spaces between them. Not one, not two—none at all. It looks like this: :Plasma is a fundamental state of matter.Plasma is a classical state of matter.A plasma is a gas.A plasma is a matter. Note that I emphasized ''appear'': When I see them rendered on the screen, they have no spaces between them. In the HTML, however, they are represented as four <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s, and their inline positioning is handled by CSS. This means, for example, that if I copy and paste them, I don't get a long string with no spaces after full stops, but four sentences with a single line break after each full stop: <poem> Plasma is a fundamental state of matter. Plasma is a classical state of matter. A plasma is a gas. A plasma is a matter. </poem> This is not how it is supposed to be done. <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s are supposed to be used for block elements and not hacked into appearing as if they are inline (also known as phrasing). Spaces between sentences are supposed to be real characters rather than HTML and CSS tricks, they may be different in different languages, and in some languages they may be nothing at all. I hope that the definition of the problem is clear. <references group="spaces3"></references> [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 12:49, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Hi, have a look at it [[Special:PermanentLink/7132|now]]. Does this match your expectations? I think it's not rendering right now for whatever reason, but there are other examples of it being done this way that you can see: [[Q241691]]. The article renders properly in both English (spaces between sentences) and Japanese (no spaces at all). : :'''English:''' :<blockquote>Programmed Data Processor is a computer model series by Digital Equipment Corporation. PDP-8 is a Programmed Data Processor.</blockquote> :'''Japanese:''' :<blockquote>PDPシリーズはディジタル・イクイップメント・コーポレーションによるコンピュータ・モデル・シリーズである。PDP-8はPDPシリーズである。</blockquote> : :I have some, err, strong opinions about [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]'s 「Abstract Wikipedia Editor」 tool, which is the predominant cause for all of these very janky and poorly-laid-out articles that you see. This is not how an article ought to be written on Abstract Wikipedia, and I and other editors are aware of this. If you see these problems, please do fix them! The wiki will be all the better for it. : :In the absence of consensus on such things as these (and awaiting any official policy pages) I have written [[f:User:Theki/best practices]] on my Wikifunctions userpage. You are welcome to read it if you wish. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:20, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::The output of [[Q241691]] looks OK to me in this regard. How was it done? ::[[Q10251]] gives me an error. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:10, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::WikiLambda is doing WikiLambda things. This WASI time limit error happens intermittently on Abstract Wikipedia articles and it usually goes away after a short while. The only thing is that it doesn't really seem like purging these articles does anything to force the orchestrator to retry its evaluation so the article might not render that paragraph until someone comes in and pokes at it by editing it somehow. ::: :::The working article uses the [[f:Z33068|''paragraph from sentences'']] function to lay out its individual sentence content. This function automatically handles converting any and all text-like objects (strings, HTML fragments, and monolingual text) to a consistent form, so sentence fragments can all be supplied verbatim to its list input. When the function is putting the sentences together it defaults to using a single space to separate them, but first checks if the requested language is in the [[f:Z33984|''languages without spaces between sentences'']] list. If it is, it doesn't add spaces at all, and just concatenates the sentences normally. I hope this explanation makes sense. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 18:19, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::It makes some sense, but earlier, you suggested: "If you see these problems, please do fix them", and I'm not entirely sure how to do it. How would I fix it in [[Q100]], for example? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:41, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::::In this case you would do the following: :::::# At the bottom, click the plus and then 「Add empty fragment」. :::::# Set the function to [[f:Z33068]], as mentioned earlier. :::::# Now go through each sentence fragment, find the innermost sentence-generation function, click on the three dots, and copy it. Do not copy the calls to [[f:Z29749]] or similar, these are not necessary. :::::# Go to the ''paragraph with sentences'' function call and add an element to the list. :::::# Click on the three dots next to the new element, and paste in the earlier sentence fragment. :::::# You can now delete the original fragment and repeat the process in the same list for the one after it. :::::&mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:46, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Theki|Theki]] I intend on fixing it, I recently made an attempt but the suggested fixes made problems worse. Do you have any practical suggestions of how to structure the templates? I will try to implement them when I have more time. ::Also your name is very confusing, are you in the process of getting it changed wiki-wide? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:36, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::Um, are you referring to my signature not matching my wiki username? I have considered for a long time changing it from ''theki'', but I don't feel like putting in the effort when it seems to be perfectly ignorable for most people. The user 「''Rae''」 can't be usurped because they made, like, two or three articles on the Persian Wikipedia two decades ago or something, I don't know. If that weren't the case I would be User:Rae right now but after that failed to go through I just decided to stop bothering. Maybe at some point I'll come up with a username I'm happy with keeping for the foreseeable future but I have other concerns at the moment. :::Could you explain how your attempted fixes 「made problems worse」? Presently I side with Feeglgeef's sentiments and prefer to wait for abstract content to actually be feasible to make on a reasonably descriptive scale (see: the type proposals) before I go around making articles willy-nilly, which is what AWE has been doing—making a bunch of pretty low-quality articles on a massive scale when it probably ''really'' would have been better to, err, hold off on that. :::And I honestly know very little about the actual workings of your editor, I don't really use it nor am I familiar with its template syntax or whatever it may use, so I'm going to look over how it actually works and then get back to you on that. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 23:28, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Using this [[f:Z33068]] made things worse [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:44, 3 May 2026 (UTC) :::::That did not go through correctly but I do not think we have a proper thing for it. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:45, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::What? Could you elaborate? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:00, 3 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{ping|Immanuelle}} I checked. Your issue is that your editor is not providing the article language to Z33068K2; that is, the ''paragraph from sentences'' function has a second argument, and your editor was omitting it. If you properly specify it, it will work. Please, next time, actually tell me what went wrong instead of going quiet and forcing me to look after it myself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:06, 4 May 2026 (UTC) :I avoid [[f:Z33068]] for now, because executing a whole paragraph in a single call would often time out. So my current alternative is inserting [[f:Z35672]] between sentences. Fairly clunky, but it works... --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 06:08, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::Can you categorize the talk pages of articles you're doing that with? It has major accessibility concerns for our friends using screen readers, so it'd be nice to be able to find those with issues when were able to fix the calls [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:50, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think the new tool can show us this (via dumps). For example, here are the uses of 'paragraph': https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/zid/Z32123 --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 23:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC) ::::There's more than one way to not use spaces correctly and more than one way to use spaces correctly, this wouldn't catch all of them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:13, 28 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm not totally sure what you want to track, but I'm confident that this will find all my uses. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:10, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::::I think it slipped past everyone's notice, but I made a template for linking to that sort of information @ [[Template:Zd|<nowiki>{{</nowiki>zd<nowiki>}}</nowiki>]]. {{zd|Z35672|sentence separator}} <span style="font-size:smaller;opacity:0.8">(I don't think the database dumps have noticed the function you're using yet, so it's a 404 at the moment.)</span> &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 01:09, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Most used fragments == [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-02|The latest status update]] lists the most used fragments: "[[:f:Z32123]] with 1452, followed by [[:f:Z27868]] with 736 and [[:f:Z29749]] with 650)". How was this calculated? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 13:44, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :Again, this should definitely have been on the talk page for that status update. This isn't the everything page, it should be used for discussion relating to the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:26, 2 May 2026 (UTC) ::It's not a question just about the status update, even if it was prompted by it. It's a question about Abstract Wikipedia that can be relevant beyond the status update. ::Stop policing how people use discussion pages without a particularly good reason. If you don't have an answer to the actual question, don't write anything. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:38, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I have to agree with Feeglgeef that this would be better raised on the status update's talk page itself. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 19:42, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm "policing" which discussion pages are being used for the same reason different discussion spaces exist in the first place. And your distinction between "just about" and "prompted by" is irrelevant. If I want to ask someone how they did something, I would ask them first, not go to a general discussion board. This is still the project ''chat'', not a Q&A zone. {{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=,}} can you please answer the question? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2026 (UTC) :I have a local script that I have run on a local copy. Nothing more complicated than that. Could also be very wrong -- the script hasn't been peer-reviewed or anything. --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 08:54, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, @[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]]. Can you share the code, please? I'll be happy to review it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:30, 4 May 2026 (UTC) ==Wiktionary integration== I was trying out a few functions recently, such as [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z27243 the new superlative function], and I noticed that ''every adjective'' has to be a Wikidata item. For example, I couldn't type in the inputs "Bugatti Veyron", "fast", "Earth" because "fast" as an adjective is not a Wikidata item. This doesn't really make sense, given that Wiktionary already has the word for "fast" and its superlative form in many different languages. Would it be possible to integrate Wiktionary into the function, so the user can type an adjective or verb from Wiktionary instead of having to deal with Wikidata (which consists almost entirely of nouns)? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 16:49, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :No, sadly. I would try "speed" as the adjective, though, you have to use abstract qualities instead of concrete English terms. [[File:Wikifunctions Superlative speed example.png|thumb|Here's an example of the word being used.]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:02, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has standard items as well as lexeme data, so if anything, we should try to integrate those. E.g. [[:d:Lexeme:L1029]]. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:48, 6 May 2026 (UTC) ::I tried this, and it gave "Bugatti Veyron is the speedest car on Earth", which is laughably bad. The problem is that Wikidata does not "know" what the superlative form is, while Wiktionary does. Speed is a fairly common descriptor, but what about less common adjectives which aren't on Wikidata? Will there need to be a bot to copy all of this information from Wiktionary? [[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] ([[User talk:Somepinkdude|talk]]) 22:14, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::I'm not suggesting that the functionality works <em>now</em>, but that we need to integrate the funcationality. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 22:17, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :::Well, no, the superlative form is chosen by [[f:Z12203]]. I think there's a bug with the English implementation that calls that function wrong. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Somepinkdude|Somepinkdude]] I did find the item {{Q|Q19807466}} which was linked to a concept database's entry for "fast"; I have at least linked it to the English lexeme "fast" and will try to add more links at a better hour. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 04:18, 7 May 2026 (UTC) == Showcase == I was wondering if there's a curated list of decent articles to learn by example here on Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:02, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :Unfortunately not, and, honestly, I wouldn't recommend article creation at the moment, it's likely to need significant refactoring as the way we represent abstract content changes, but, I can point you to [[Q668]] as a reasonably good example at the moment. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. "308 languages" blew my mind – well done! [[User:Fgnievinski|Fgnievinski]] ([[User talk:Fgnievinski|talk]]) 02:54, 8 May 2026 (UTC) :::308 is the number of ''concrete'' Wikipedias in which a manually-written article about India is available. :::The abstract article renders for me in English as "India is a country in Asia. India is a republic. New Delhi is the capital of India. India is the most populous country in world." Switching to another language to get rendered as an abstract article is done by typing the language's name in the box above the rendered text. I tried French, German, and Dutch, and got errors in all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:12, 8 May 2026 (UTC) ::::So it goes. The paragraph has quite a lot of distinct sentence generation functions, all of which of course have to be implemented in the target language. This will be rounded out once we're able to more effectively generalize linguistic content. I view these functions as sort of patchy temporary solutions to the sentence generation problem while we figure out something more robust, which I hope is soon to come. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:15, 8 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #247 is out: References from Wikidata now available == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-08|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we announce that is now possible to pass references in Wikidata statements, we introduce the [https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ Abstract Data dashboard], we report you on the presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1778520600 May 11, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 11:16, 8 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == about the usage of Z33068 == The use of [[f:Z33068]] (en: paragraph from sentences) <s>always</s> most of the time results in the error "Reached time limit in orchestrator." So should it be used at all for now, temporarily? Or maybe there are already some tickets about this that I am not aware of? -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 18:23, 10 May 2026 (UTC) :It previously worked, so I'm hoping whatever the issue is will be fixed soon. The current state of the wiki makes [[m:Immediatism|immediatism]] an illogical philosophy to have at the moment, in my opinion. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:16, 10 May 2026 (UTC) ::This issue seems to no longer exist, you might need to clear the cache by making a dummy edit on affected articles. I implemented the function in Python (instead of composition), which has increased the speed by about 2000 ms. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:31, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :::Seems like working. Thank you. -- [[User:Asked42|Asked42]] ([[User talk:Asked42|talk]]) 19:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == Manual of Style == I've created a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Manual of Style|draft for a Manual of Style]]. Please feel free to comment on or make bold edits to the page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:29, 11 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you! That’s great and I’ll look at it more soon. I’m still taking a bit of a wikibreak. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:32, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :Is there anything I've written [[f:User:Theki/best_practices#Abstract_Wikipedia|here]] that you think would make for a good technical section of the page? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 00:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::I've added some of them. Thank you for your list of best practices by the way, I generally agree with them (I can't endorse connecting WD items currently in hope of a better technical solution, but otherwise I do). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Proposals on the architecture of Abstract Content rendering == Starting from a discussion born on the Wikifunctions Telegram chat, I've explained two different proposals on how the NLG on Abstract Wikipedia should be organized in the page [[User:Dv103/Abstract articles architectures]]. Please come to contribute to the discussion, or to propose alternatives. [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 14:32, 11 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright-footer]] == The copyright message has a few issues, mainly that it does not address abstract content (which is not "text"), nor object labels (which are under CC0). Proposed text: "<nowiki> Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. </nowiki>" Which, when rendered, looks like: Text and abstract content are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License]; the labels of objects from [[f:|Wikifunctions]] are available under the [https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ Creative Commons CC0 License]; additional terms may apply. See [https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use Terms of Use] for details. The message is somewhat inspired by the current one and WF's. Thoughts? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: As you probably imagine, this text is very tightly controlled by the Wikimedia Foundation's Legal department. I think the first port of call should be a discussion about why you might want to change things, rather than a rush to specific re-wordings, before approaching them for sign-off. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:28, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::Well I briefly summarized my justification, my proposed text was just an idea for a starting point. Basically, the abstract content is not really "text", so the footer doesn't actually tell the reader what they're allowed to do with it, and I argue that the current wording implies that the labels are licensed under CC-BY-SA 4, when they aren't. I think a change is critical as otherwise we're not showing the reader a license, or, arguably, in the case of labels, showing users a license that ''does not apply'', which is a pretty bad thing. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:51, 12 May 2026 (UTC) == [[MediaWiki:AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions.json]] == I'd think we should add [[f:Z33068]] here. The function allows you to form a paragraph out of sentences and handles languages having different standards of whether to add a space between them, and adding it here would make finding it easier. I'm not sure what policy we want to have for the suggested functions, this idea might help formulate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:06, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :[[User:Jdforrester (WMF)]] tells me the page has been changed to [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/AbstractWikiSuggestedWikifunctions]] on the telegram. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Yup, see the weekly update on [[f:Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2026-05-02|2026-05-02]]. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 16:35, 12 May 2026 (UTC) :I also believe Z33068 should be added to the list. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 17:25, 12 May 2026 (UTC) {{done}} see [[Special:Diff/7692]]. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:08, 20 May 2026 (UTC) == Abstract Wikipedia statistics site source code == https://abstract-data.toolforge.org/ is a very useful tool, but it doesn't seem to have anything pointing to the location of its source code. Is it closed-source or unfree? While I'm at it I feel I should suggest having language pages' paths formatted differently from how they are currently—at the moment it's <code>/languages/Toki%20Pona</code> when something like <code>/languages/tok</code> would be more suitable. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; : See [[:gitlab:toolforge-repos/abstract-data]]. Also pinging {{ping|DSantamaria-WMF|p=}} (thanks for the tool, by the way). [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 00:25, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you. I think a link to that repository should be put in a footer somewhere on the website as I wouldn't have found that if not for you. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:30, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::{{ping|Theki}} For the record, I found that repo by searching for "abstract-data" on [[:toolhub:|Toolhub]]. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:34, 13 May 2026 (UTC) :::Thanks for the feedback and the report, fixed both things, we have now the link to the repo in the side bar footer, and also the language codes are used in the URLs. Thanks! [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 11:46, 13 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Are you particularly attached to keeping country flag emojis next to the language names? Some consider it an [https://flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog anti-pattern]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 16:17, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::I think the use of flags is not really harmful since this is not a ''language selector'', it is just a list of languages. Of course not every language has an associated flag, for example Latin, which does look a bit awkward, but it can't be helped. Maybe give languages without a flag a unique icon from Wikimedia Commons? e.g. <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;">[[File:Toki pona.svg|16px]] Toki Pona</div> instead of <div style="display:inline-flex;align-items:center;border:1px solid #0002;border-radius:4px;gap:4px;padding:4px;"><span>🌐</span>Toki Pona</div>. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:37, 14 May 2026 (UTC) ::::::I thought I saw 🏛️ being used for Latin earlier. But of course, as far as the Unicode Consortium is concerned, [[Q65300415|🇬🇧]] doesn't mean '[[Q1680|English]]', no more than [[Q100587670|🏳️‍🌈]] means '[[Q1359130|Polari]]'; technically, it doesn't even mean '[[Q145|United Kingdom]]', just the letters 🇺 and 🇰 next to each other (which linguistically would indicate [[Q8798|Ukrainian]] in ISO 639, but these are 'regional indicator symbols'). [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 17:21, 14 May 2026 (UTC) :::::::As seems (from this comment and also [[f:User_talk:DSantamaria-WMF#c-%E9%AD%94%E7%90%B4-20260513063700-Country_flags_in_abstract-data|others' comments]]) that flags are a little bit controversial, I just removed them, IMHO it was just an aesthetic concept, I like the look and feel that flags bring to the language labels, but happy to remove them if make some people feel uncomfortable with the concept. [[User:DSantamaria-WMF|DSantamaria-WMF]] ([[User talk:DSantamaria-WMF|talk]]) 05:54, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Make it more user Friendly == Make it more user-friendly by adding drag-and-drop compenots and one click additions, and make it similar to a visual macro buidler. [[User:ChippyTechGH|ChippyTechGH]] ([[User talk:ChippyTechGH|talk]]) 01:00, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Could you file something like this on [[phab:|phabricator]]? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Person infoboxes == Hi all, I've just created [[f:Z35167|infobox for person (Z35167)]]. All it can really do presently is display the name of the person in the chosen language and in the person's native language, but it's a good start. I started writing it as a composition but chose to switch to writing it in JavaScript instead, which ended up being less headache-inducing (managing a large list of strings to concatenate together is not fun, plus compositions bring lots of additional overhead). Unfortunately, this means that the actual ''useful'' parts of the infobox—the information about the person themself—is not really doable. I'd need to dereference the Wikidata property references to get their label in the requested language, but since they're references and I'm working with code, not compositions, I can't just call [[f:Z6822|fetch Wikidata property (Z6822)]] and be done with it. If there's a WikiLambda API to do this inside of the JS itself that would be great and would solve everything, but at the moment that alone is what's holding it back, or so it seems. I can get the actual ''values'' of statements just fine, though. If I am missing some amazing WikiLambda API function that will solve this problem for me by letting me dereference the PID, then please let me know because that would be great. If you want to look at an example of the infobox right meow, you can view [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/tok/Q317521 Q317521 in Toki Pona] and see how it states Musk's name in both Toki Pona ''and'' his native English name. COOL! My hope is that this can be made less barebones in the near future. Infoboxes are a great way to get quick information on a subject and can fill in the informational gaps in the presently sparse articles we have at the moment, all while staying in the user's requested language. Feedback is appreciated! &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 02:58, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :Thank you for this! I wonder if perhaps it would be better to create one "infobox" function and then have compositions call that, making wd retrival possible? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:38, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::Working on that at the moment, I think I've got it working but I'm hitting a ratelimit in the orchestrator so I don't know for sure. The main issue with it now is that the actual [[f:Z35175|infobox template (Z35175)]] wrapper was programmed in JS so as to not be a pain in the ass, so this means that it can only take in strings, HTML fragments, etc. so the retrieval of Wikidata stuff still needs to be done by the caller and is rather verbose (see [[f:Z35168|the main implementation]]). The niceties will come soon later once I know that it all works at a lower level, though. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 05:04, 15 May 2026 (UTC) ::So the problem now seems to be that when [[f:Z29825|label of Wikidata property in language (Z29825)]] isn't being faulty, it's being incredibly slow. Considering retrieving Wikidata items from their references seems to take, like, four to five seconds, and we'll have tens of statements in these infoboxes, I don't see how the property names could be retrieved in a way that doesn't cause the orchestrator to time out or hit a ratelimit. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:01, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::I think I figured something out? I'm just going to try calling [[f:Z35036|fetch Wikidata property or parts (Z35036)]], it seems to be much faster for whatever reason. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 06:05, 15 May 2026 (UTC) :::It works now, a little rough around the edges, also very slow, but I think I'm mostly happy with it. Of course it would be great if all you needed to provide to the template function to get a label-statement row was the property reference itself, but I'm too sleep-deprived to figure that out at the moment. I made five bespoke functions specifically for this infobox, more than I would like, but it's probably not ''that'' bad. I'm just hoping I didn't duplicate any functionality in trying to make the composition less verbose and repetitive. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 07:15, 15 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #248 is out: A higher meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-15|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we discuss functions creating language fragments, we present our latest news in Types, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:36, 15 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == Translations == Yes, this question is probably easily answerable through a Web search, but I thought I'd ask here anyways. I am unfortunately not bilingual... I know Toki Pona, but it's a constructed language. I'd love to be a polyglot of some sorts but that is a future thing. I've been trying to translate pages into tok, for funsies mostly. At any rate, I want to convert some of the un-translated pages, namely Feeglgeef's policy drafts, into ones that can be translated (and then translate them into Toki Pona of course). I think I have to be a translation administrator for this? Which is a process that I'd have to ''apply'' for, and I doubt I have the credentials to be accepted for such a role. Regardless, is there a way I can go about this without having to do it through someone else? I can probably easily find documentation on marking pages for translation but I don't know how much I'm actually capable of doing as just a regular user. Should I apply? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:15, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :Most of the process of preparing a page for translation can be done by any editor. See [[:mw:Help:Extension:Translate/Page translation example]]. :The step of marking a page or translation for the first time or after changes must be done by a translation administrator. :I recommend learning the <nowiki><translate> and <tvar></nowiki> syntax and using it on a few pages before applying for this permission. After you do it on a few pages, and you feel confident, and you want to do it more, you can ask for the permission. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:28, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::Just to confirm, did I mark up [[Special:Diff/8138|this page]] for translation properly? I thought to give the hatnote its own <code>&lt;translate&gt;</code> enclosure so as to exclude the indent and italicization from needing to be included in the translatable text. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:10, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::Mostly properly, but don't exclude <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics from translation. It's generally a good idea to exclude complex markup from translation because it's hard for many people to type, and it usually stays the same in translation anyway. <code><nowiki>''</nowiki></code> for italics is different, however: it's very simple to type and familiar to most editors; italic letters are used differently in different languages, and in some languages they aren't used at all, so translators need the freedom to use them appropriately; this markup can also appear in the middle of a translation unit and not only in the ends. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:35, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you for the guidance. Should the italics be included if they are used over the entire hatnote? I figure that placement of italics should be left up to the discretion of the translators, but the hatnote itself is meant to be entirely italicized, I would think irrespective of the language it's in. Is this the right idea or should they still be kept within the translation unit? &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:45, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes, italics should be included in the translation unit if they are used over the entire hatnote. Some languages don't use italic writing at all, so it shouldn't be forced. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :I'd support a translation administrator request ;), for reasons below. I'm not sure why we need a seperate translation administrator right, or why we have to call it an "administrator" (deciding that a page could be translated is a much less important role than, say, page deletion, or blocking). We picked three of them (well, one of them went through the WMF, so we picked two), [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=pagetranslation&user=&page=&excludetempacct=1&wpdate=&tagfilter=&wpfilters%5B%5D=newusers&wpFormIdentifier=logeventslist they don't appear very active, though], only marking 9 times this month, zero (0) of which were for pages marked for the first time. Both community translation admins used their global history and rights to get the role and only stop by occasionally, so having one who ''actually'' edits here would be nice. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:06, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::This reply echos my philosophy of a sort of wiki-[[Q166005|xenophobia]] (the term xenophobia is probably too harsh, and I wouldn't consider myself one in real life, but it's the best word I can think of), I generally distrust users with a lot of global rights (both global sysop etc. and large amounts of local rights) who come make [[m:Metapedianism|metapedian]] contributions, not as people but to their ability to handle Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia as incredibly unique and technically complex projects. I apologize if it my opinions come off as rude or ungrateful, I do appreciate the work of our translation administrators. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:26, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::You don't bother me, it's fine. I think they definitely have a place, they can be useful and they usually are. Obviously local admins and what have you that earned their roles through the trust and reputation of the specific community they are in are going to occupy a more trusting position in my mind than a global sysop or global ''anything''. Specialized role members are good and healthy in the long term; I think we are giving these privileges to global users sparingly as the project is still in its infancy and as core contributors emerge and take up key positions we will have a more well-rounded and self-sustaining community with less global privileges needed to take up certain tasks. Wikifunctions probably needed some Foundation members or other staff to act as functioneers initially while the general community was still orienting themselves with WikiLambda and working on applying for the role, but now we have [[f:Special:ListUsers/functioneer|74(!) of them]] and the number of normal members using their specialized skills outnumbers those who were "grandfathered" in (for lack of a better term) or similar. The wiki is young—it just needs time. I myself have been considering applying for sysop privileges since they are obviously needed (there being exactly Zero of them at the moment); I've been weighing the pros and cons of such a commitment, it's obviously a lot to take up. I wish your sysop request went through, I think you would have made a great admin here. I'm unsure of what others think of my capabilities, I'm rather in-and-out around these social spaces so I don't know if there's much to go off of. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 15:55, 20 May 2026 (UTC) ::::Totally agree, and I'd support a sysopship request as well, though I'm apparently not good at assessing what the community considers supportable in admin candidate ;). ::::Off-topic, but interestingly, the sysop toolset allows you to grant yourself translation adminship. I'm not sure if sysops are expected not to grant themselves the permissions (kind of like how on enwiki 'crats are expected not grant themselves any rights without discussion despite having the technical rights), but I did it to myself on WF because [https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=84940 another sysop had]. Additionally, the functioneer right [[Special:ListGroupRights#functioneer|exists on this wiki]], with the same rights on WF, despite all of them not doing anything on this wiki. I believe this is because, on the technical side, both AW and WF are powered by the same MediaWiki extension (Wikilambda), with one wiki set to a mode for abstract articles and another set to a mode for ZObjects. [https://dag.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di%C5%8B%27gahim:ListGroupRights#functioneer Checking the Dagbani Wikipedia] supports this theory. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:00, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::::It always depends on the local policy. For Wikifunctions it is: ''Administrators do not need to undergo another discussion to become translation administrators; they can self-grant the rights to their account if necessary. Temporary administrators are not allowed to self-grant permanent translation administrator rights.'' :::::The availability of the functioneer right is a bug, see [[phab:T407066]]. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 19:36, 20 May 2026 (UTC) :::If you don't consider yourself a xenophobe in real life, I would recommend not calling yourself that here, or anywhere really. Especially since it was the ideological capture during the 2010s of the Croatian-language Wikipedia [[w:hr:]] by actual xenophobes that was part of the impetus for Abstract Wikipedia according to [https://simia.net/wiki/Draft:_Collaborating_on_the_sum_of_all_knowledge_across_languages#A_look_on_some_south_Slavic_language_Wikipedias Denny's blog]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 22:10, 26 May 2026 (UTC) == Policy drafts == Hi all! I've written some draft policies and guidelines over the last few days. We're not a bureaucracy, so the point is not to set some rules but to kick off some discussions as to how our wiki will work. So far, I've created: * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|a notability guideline]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|a deletion policy]] I've written them as my opinion on what should happen, but I'm hoping to align them with community consensus as we discuss them more. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:44, 21 May 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #249 is out: Annual plan 2026-2027 == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-05-23|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present you the current draft of objectives for Wikifunctions and Abstract Wikipedia in the WMF Annual Plan 2026-2027, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:48, 25 May 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30536976 --> == To abstract Wikipedia or be the Abstract Wikipedia == There is a discussion happening about what the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Notability|notability criteria]] for Abstract Wikipedia should be, and in trying to participate I've found my idea of Abstract Wikipedia is awfully abstract. Is Abstract Wikipedia supposed to abstract Wikipedia, as in abstracting information from existing articles on the language Wikipedias (barring new contributions), or is it supposed to become the Abstract Wikipedia, supporting collaboration across all languages like it's the language Wikipedia to end all language Wikipedias (allowing new contributions)? I thought the answer would be obvious, but the name Abstract Wikipedia is a bit ambiguous. Am I missing something? [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 02:16, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :I think ({{ping|DVrandecic (WMF)|p=?}}) the idea is (and I personally prefer) the latter. I believe that, given the fact that it's much easier to write a concrete article than an abstract article, and the fact that the community of potential future contributors on enwiki is skeptical ''at best'', we ultimately will never expand beyond the size of other wikis, but I see no problem with allowing volunteers to add information not on other wikis (it's probably not the most effective, but they're volunteers, beggars can't be choosers), as long as it's not vandalism, useless, or promotional slop. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] Abstract Wikipedia is a Wikipedia, where people can collaborate across languages on articles, which can then be used to fill gaps in the existing Wikipedias. Whereas I expect that current Wikipedia articles might be used as a convenient starting point for many of the articles in Abstract Wikipedia, this is more a consequence of Wikipedia being one of the best places to go to to find reliable knowledge, but that is not part of how it is supposed to work. So, this is not to abstract the existing Wikipedias, but to collaborate on an Abstract Wikipedia. At no point is this meant to replace existing Wikipedias. (Thanks to @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] for the ping!) --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 17:01, 27 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, this makes a lot more sense now. [[User:Some helpful person|Some helpful person]] ([[User talk:Some helpful person|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == template suggestion == Some way to mock abstract syntax on talk and project pages, analogous to those in [[d:category:format Template]]. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 15:21, 27 May 2026 (UTC) :Hmm. I agree. :Workshopping ideas for how it works: :* Invokation: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|{"Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q634"}|{"Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1"}|lang=en}}</nowiki> :** This could then be suplemented by helper templates: <nowiki>{{Call|Z26039|{{Wikidata item argument reference}}|{{Wikidata item reference|Q634}}|{{Language argument reference}}}}</nowiki> :* This would result in "[[f:Z26039|subject is instance of (string)]] (wikidata item reference, [[d:Q634|planet]], language)" :** Icons are missing in this example, I'm not sure if we can actually add them :Thoughts? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:04, 27 May 2026 (UTC) == Marking NLG Default text == Some NLG functions give default texts, like [[f:Z33420|Z33420]] will give text like "Paris ∈ {city}". sometimes in other languages the English text is show. Currently there is no visual clue that these texts are not normal text in the requested language. I propose we mark these text with color <span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span> with something like <nowiki><span style="color:magenta;">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. To have this configurable/maintainable this could be included in a function, called NLG default text or so, with a text as input an a text in color as output. The exact formatting like magenta color or gray background or something else can be discussed/decided later. To have it even more configurable on personal stylesheets it could use a class like <nowiki><span class="NLG Default text">Paris ∈ {city}</span></nowiki>. What do you think? Could somebody make such a function already? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 12:00, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :The are technically just monolingual texts in a language called "multiple languages". I threw a prototype together really quickly, [[f:Z35839]]. It will accept strings, monolingual texts, and html fragments as input, so you have to select which type you want. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::OK, thanks, I added it to [[f:Z26039]] and works as expected, see [https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z26039?call=%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z7%22%2C%22Z7K1%22%3A%22Z26039%22%2C%22Z26039K1%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q64%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K2%22%3A%7B%22Z1K1%22%3A%22Z6091%22%2C%22Z6091K1%22%3A%22Q515%22%7D%2C%22Z26039K3%22%3A%22Z1555%22%7D here]. The test for the function with default text now fails because it now is in magenta color. That was to be expected. I will leave the tests unchanged if that is OK with you, as we might need to change the exact formatting. ::Is it OK to add this to other NLG functions that produce default output? [[User:HenkvD|HenkvD]] ([[User talk:HenkvD|talk]]) 15:59, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :::Sure, [[w:en:WP:Be bold|be bold]]! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:50, 29 May 2026 (UTC) == Ratification of the deletion policy proposal? == I haven't seen any unresolved objections to my proposal for a [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy|policy for deletion]]. Does anybody have any issues, and, if not, is it ok to ratify as an actual policy? I intend to remove the draft template and replace it with a policy template unless anyone voices any objection within a week. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:55, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does [[Abstract Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Reasons for deletion]] render blank with only number bullets without the actual text after ''1.'' or ''2.''? [[User:Bunnypranav|Bunnypranav]] ([[User talk:Bunnypranav|talk]]) 07:13, 30 May 2026 (UTC) ::I see text. ―[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''<span style="color:black">v</span>f</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 07:49, 30 May 2026 (UTC) 1t35sfzpy7ci4i0213cdt9cgkhrp9v1 0 443 9104 1989 2026-05-29T18:19:28Z ShehabTweel165 4165 9104 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q138748413", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z29749", "Z29749K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26570", "Z26570K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26570K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q33120867" }, "Z26570K3": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q56035565" }, "Z26570K4": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, "Z29749K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32145", "Z32145K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q138861968" }, "Z32145K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32179", "Z32179K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32428", "Z32428K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q96807071" }, "Z32428K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } ] } } } bbbkzewrnu7x9qx5anhkyvw4pphsh93 0 864 9161 2883 2026-05-30T08:06:00Z Jsamwrites 874 9161 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q1845", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z27868", "Z27868K1": { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z26039", "Z26039K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z26039K2": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q179461" }, "Z26039K3": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32145", "Z32145K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q138861968" }, "Z32145K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32179", "Z32179K1": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32428", "Z32428K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q19786" }, "Z32428K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } }, { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z32428", "Z32428K1": { "Z1K1": "Z6091", "Z6091K1": "Q18813" }, "Z32428K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } ] } } } f3todedv4e4dmd3wykx6f31uohrf8wc 4 1710 9054 8565 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z Minorax 556 Marked this version for translation 9054 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <translate><!--T:1--> A WikiProject is a group of contributors who want to work together as a team to improve Wikipedia. These groups often focus on a specific topic area, a specific part of the encyclopedia, or a specific kind of task.</translate> == <translate><!--T:2--> Function</translate> == <translate><!--T:3--> A WikiProject collaborates to improve a particular topic area. The group uses its WikiProject pages to develop ideas, discuss sources, maintain various collaborative processes, and keep track of work that needs to be done. <!--T:4--> The discussion pages attached to a project page are a convenient venue for those involved in that project to talk about what they are doing, to ask questions, and to receive advice from other people interested in the group's work. <!--T:5--> They typically are areas of interest or expertise and can be used for collaboration, coordination, competitions, outreach, decision-making, integration and mutual assistance. <!--T:6--> WikiProjects are not rule-making organizations, nor can they assert ownership of articles within a specific topic area. WikiProjects have no special rights or privileges compared to other editors and may not impose their preferences on articles. A WikiProject is fundamentally a social construct: its success depends on its ability to function as a cohesive group of editors working towards a common goal.</translate> [[Category:WikiProjects| ]] ols4vrmlvgc0zb92486fp0h9e057xrf 10 2377 9165 9005 2026-05-30T08:08:59Z Autom 2038 9165 wikitext text/x-wiki <templatestyles src="Template:Main_page/styles.css" /> <div id="lang_dir" class="mw-content-{{dir|{{#invoke:Caller title|lang|base=Template:Main_page}}}}" dir="{{dir|{{#invoke:Caller title|lang|base=Template:Main_page}}}}"> <div id="mainpage_header" class="mainpage_header"> [[File:Wikipedia-logo.svg|100px|alt=A globe with letters on it]] <h1>Välkommen till Abstrakta Wikipedia</h1> <p>Abstrakta Wikipedia är en [[foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use|fri]] encyklopedi med [[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:Introduction|abstrakta artiklar]] som alla kan redigera.</p> <div id="articlecount"><ul><li>[[Special:Statistics|{{formatnum|{{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}}|{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}]] aktiva skribenter</li> <li>[[Special:Statistics|{{formatnum|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}|{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}]] abstrakta artiklar</li></ul></div></div> <div id="audiences" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Wikipedia "W" Rounded Black.svg|20px|middle|link=]]</span>Välkommen!</h3> <div id="mainpage-welcome" title="Welcome" class="items"> '''Abstrakts Wikipedia''' är ett Wikimedia-projekt där alla kan skapa och utveckla en samling språkoberoende artiklar tillsammans, med funktioner från[[:f:|Wikifunctions]] och data från [[:d:|Wikidata]] som grund, för att hjälpa Wikimedia-projekten utöka sina artiklars omfång. </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon chem.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Kom igång</h3> <div id="mainpage-start" title="Get started" class="items"> * [[Special:CreateAbstract|Skapa en artikel]] * [[Abstract:Useful functions for article composition|Användbara funktioner]] * [[Abstract:Community portal|Deltagarportalen]] </div> </div> </div> <div id="misc-news" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon ongoingConversation-rtl.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Lär och bidra</h3> <div id=mainpage-help-contribute" title="Support and Contributing" class="items"> ; Lär dig mer om Abstrakta Wikipedia * [[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:About|Introduktion till Abstrakta Wikipedia]] * [[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:Frequently Asked Questions|Vanliga frågor]] * [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Glossary|Ordlista för Wikifunctions]] ; Bidra på andra sätt * [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia#Participate|Hjälp till som översättare]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions|Föreslå en funktion]] ; Få hjälp * Har du frågor? Ställ dem vid [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|bybrunnen]] eller i vår [https://t.me/Wikifunctions Telegram/IRC-kanal]! * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Rapportera ett tekniskt problem]] </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Echo (Notifications) megaphone.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Nyheter</h3> <div id="mainpage-news" title="News" class="items">{{Main page/News/{{#invoke:IncludeLang|main|page=Template:Main page/News|lang = {{USERLANGUAGE}}}}}}</div> </div> </div> <!-- The section below is not visible in the page view --> <div id="many-examples" class="mainpage_row" style="display:none;"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon listBullet-ltr.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Utvald abstrakt artikel</h3> <div id=mainpage-abstract-articles" title="Abstract articles" class="items"> Snart kommer våra första utvalda abstrakta artiklar! </div> </div> </div> <div id="sister" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <div id="mainpage-sister" title="Sister projects" class="items" style="border-top:unset;"> <div class="mainpage-sister-title"> <div style="width:45px; margin:0 auto; margin-top: -40px;">[[File:Wikimedia-logo.svg|45px|center|link=]]</div> <div class="plainlinks" style="color:var(--color-subtle, #54595d); font-size:120%; text-align:center; padding-top:10px;">Abstrakta Wikipedia är del av den ideella, flerspråkiga Wikimediafamiljen för fritt material.</div> </div> <div class="mainpage-sister-projects"> *[[File:Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[w:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikipedia}}]]</span><br>Encyklopedi</div> *[[File:Wikidata-logo.svg|40x40px|link=d:|alt=]]<div><span>[[d:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikidata}}]]</span><br>Kunskapsbank</div> *[[File:Wikifunctions-logo.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[f:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikifunctions}}]]</span><br>Bibliotek med funktioner</div> *[[File:Commons-logo.svg|40x40px|link=c:|alt=]]<div><span>[[c:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-commons}}]]</span><br>Mediedatabas</div> *[[File:Wiktionary-logo.svg|40x40px|link=wikt:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikt:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wiktionary}}]]</span><br>Ordbok och tesaurus</div> *[[File:Wikibooks-logo.svg|40x40px|link=b:|alt=]]<div><span>[[b:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikibooks}}]]</span><br>Läroböcker och manualer</div> *[[File:Wikiquote-logo.svg|40x40px|link=q:|alt=]]<div><span>[[q:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiquote}}]]</span><br>Citatsamling</div> *[[File:Wikisource-logo.svg|40x40px|link=s:|alt=]]<div><span>[[s:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikisource}}]]</span><br>Bibliotek</div> *[[File:Wikiversity logo 2017.svg|40x40px|link=v:|alt=]]<div><span>[[v:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiversity}}]]</span><br>Undervisningmaterial</div> *[[File:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-icon.svg|40x40px|link=voy:|alt=]]<div><span>[[voy:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikivoyage}}]]</span><br>Reseguide</div> *[[File:Wikispecies-logo.svg|40x40px|link=species:|alt=]]<div><span>[[species:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-species}}]]</span><br>Artförteckning</div> *[[File:Incubator-logo.svg|40x40px|link=incubator:|alt=]]<div><span>[[incubator:|{{int:Project-localized-name-incubatorwiki}}]]</span><br>Nya språkversioner</div> *[[File:Wikimedia Community Logo.svg|40x40px|link=m:|alt=]]<div><span>[[m:|{{int:Project-localized-name-metawiki}}]]</span><br>Projektkoordinering</div> *[[File:MediaWiki-2020-icon.svg|40x40px|link=mw:|alt=]]<div><span>[[mw:|{{int:Project-localized-name-mediawikiwiki}}]]</span><br>Utveckling av MediaWiki</div> *[[File:Wikimania.svg|40x40px|link=wikimania:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikimania:|{{int:Project-localized-name-wikimaniawiki}}]]</span><br>Organisering av evenemang</div> *[[File:Wikimedia-logo.svg|40x40px|link=outreach:|alt=]]<div><span>[[m:|{{int:Project-localized-name-outreachwiki}}]]</span><br><span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Outreach</span></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="mainPage_row" style="font-size: smaller;"> <languages/> </div> </div> __NOEDITSECTION__ __NOTOC__ <noinclude>[[Category:Templates]]</noinclude> 7kk95tjignkqa2dy3oh1f1qfzcf78f4 9167 9165 2026-05-30T08:10:41Z Autom 2038 Created page with "Uppsökande verksamheter" 9167 wikitext text/x-wiki <templatestyles src="Template:Main_page/styles.css" /> <div id="lang_dir" class="mw-content-{{dir|{{#invoke:Caller title|lang|base=Template:Main_page}}}}" dir="{{dir|{{#invoke:Caller title|lang|base=Template:Main_page}}}}"> <div id="mainpage_header" class="mainpage_header"> [[File:Wikipedia-logo.svg|100px|alt=A globe with letters on it]] <h1>Välkommen till Abstrakta Wikipedia</h1> <p>Abstrakta Wikipedia är en [[foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use|fri]] encyklopedi med [[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:Introduction|abstrakta artiklar]] som alla kan redigera.</p> <div id="articlecount"><ul><li>[[Special:Statistics|{{formatnum|{{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}}|{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}]] aktiva skribenter</li> <li>[[Special:Statistics|{{formatnum|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}|{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}]] abstrakta artiklar</li></ul></div></div> <div id="audiences" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Wikipedia "W" Rounded Black.svg|20px|middle|link=]]</span>Välkommen!</h3> <div id="mainpage-welcome" title="Welcome" class="items"> '''Abstrakts Wikipedia''' är ett Wikimedia-projekt där alla kan skapa och utveckla en samling språkoberoende artiklar tillsammans, med funktioner från[[:f:|Wikifunctions]] och data från [[:d:|Wikidata]] som grund, för att hjälpa Wikimedia-projekten utöka sina artiklars omfång. </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon chem.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Kom igång</h3> <div id="mainpage-start" title="Get started" class="items"> * [[Special:CreateAbstract|Skapa en artikel]] * [[Abstract:Useful functions for article composition|Användbara funktioner]] * [[Abstract:Community portal|Deltagarportalen]] </div> </div> </div> <div id="misc-news" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon ongoingConversation-rtl.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Lär och bidra</h3> <div id=mainpage-help-contribute" title="Support and Contributing" class="items"> ; Lär dig mer om Abstrakta Wikipedia * [[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:About|Introduktion till Abstrakta Wikipedia]] * [[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:Frequently Asked Questions|Vanliga frågor]] * [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Glossary|Ordlista för Wikifunctions]] ; Bidra på andra sätt * [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia#Participate|Hjälp till som översättare]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions|Föreslå en funktion]] ; Få hjälp * Har du frågor? Ställ dem vid [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|bybrunnen]] eller i vår [https://t.me/Wikifunctions Telegram/IRC-kanal]! * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Rapportera ett tekniskt problem]] </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Echo (Notifications) megaphone.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Nyheter</h3> <div id="mainpage-news" title="News" class="items">{{Main page/News/{{#invoke:IncludeLang|main|page=Template:Main page/News|lang = {{USERLANGUAGE}}}}}}</div> </div> </div> <!-- The section below is not visible in the page view --> <div id="many-examples" class="mainpage_row" style="display:none;"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon listBullet-ltr.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Utvald abstrakt artikel</h3> <div id=mainpage-abstract-articles" title="Abstract articles" class="items"> Snart kommer våra första utvalda abstrakta artiklar! </div> </div> </div> <div id="sister" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <div id="mainpage-sister" title="Sister projects" class="items" style="border-top:unset;"> <div class="mainpage-sister-title"> <div style="width:45px; margin:0 auto; margin-top: -40px;">[[File:Wikimedia-logo.svg|45px|center|link=]]</div> <div class="plainlinks" style="color:var(--color-subtle, #54595d); font-size:120%; text-align:center; padding-top:10px;">Abstrakta Wikipedia är del av den ideella, flerspråkiga Wikimediafamiljen för fritt material.</div> </div> <div class="mainpage-sister-projects"> *[[File:Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[w:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikipedia}}]]</span><br>Encyklopedi</div> *[[File:Wikidata-logo.svg|40x40px|link=d:|alt=]]<div><span>[[d:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikidata}}]]</span><br>Kunskapsbank</div> *[[File:Wikifunctions-logo.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[f:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikifunctions}}]]</span><br>Bibliotek med funktioner</div> *[[File:Commons-logo.svg|40x40px|link=c:|alt=]]<div><span>[[c:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-commons}}]]</span><br>Mediedatabas</div> *[[File:Wiktionary-logo.svg|40x40px|link=wikt:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikt:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wiktionary}}]]</span><br>Ordbok och tesaurus</div> *[[File:Wikibooks-logo.svg|40x40px|link=b:|alt=]]<div><span>[[b:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikibooks}}]]</span><br>Läroböcker och manualer</div> *[[File:Wikiquote-logo.svg|40x40px|link=q:|alt=]]<div><span>[[q:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiquote}}]]</span><br>Citatsamling</div> *[[File:Wikisource-logo.svg|40x40px|link=s:|alt=]]<div><span>[[s:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikisource}}]]</span><br>Bibliotek</div> *[[File:Wikiversity logo 2017.svg|40x40px|link=v:|alt=]]<div><span>[[v:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiversity}}]]</span><br>Undervisningmaterial</div> *[[File:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-icon.svg|40x40px|link=voy:|alt=]]<div><span>[[voy:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikivoyage}}]]</span><br>Reseguide</div> *[[File:Wikispecies-logo.svg|40x40px|link=species:|alt=]]<div><span>[[species:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-species}}]]</span><br>Artförteckning</div> *[[File:Incubator-logo.svg|40x40px|link=incubator:|alt=]]<div><span>[[incubator:|{{int:Project-localized-name-incubatorwiki}}]]</span><br>Nya språkversioner</div> *[[File:Wikimedia Community Logo.svg|40x40px|link=m:|alt=]]<div><span>[[m:|{{int:Project-localized-name-metawiki}}]]</span><br>Projektkoordinering</div> *[[File:MediaWiki-2020-icon.svg|40x40px|link=mw:|alt=]]<div><span>[[mw:|{{int:Project-localized-name-mediawikiwiki}}]]</span><br>Utveckling av MediaWiki</div> *[[File:Wikimania.svg|40x40px|link=wikimania:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikimania:|{{int:Project-localized-name-wikimaniawiki}}]]</span><br>Organisering av evenemang</div> *[[File:Wikimedia-logo.svg|40x40px|link=outreach:|alt=]]<div><span>[[m:|{{int:Project-localized-name-outreachwiki}}]]</span><br>Uppsökande verksamheter</div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="mainPage_row" style="font-size: smaller;"> <languages/> </div> </div> __NOEDITSECTION__ __NOTOC__ <noinclude>[[Category:Templates]]</noinclude> f1kyvr0ulrdjkrqtc8wwlizcdhr3jli 1198 2394 9164 6211 2026-05-30T08:08:59Z Autom 2038 9164 wikitext text/x-wiki Abstrakta Wikipedia är en [[$1|fri]] encyklopedi med [[$2|abstrakta artiklar]] som alla kan redigera. fzxy35wa5kdais2uz3bl2cbuz47kbag 4 2595 9107 8156 2026-05-30T04:31:59Z Theki 2698 9107 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ ==Discussions not working== I keep getting a type error whenever I try to create a new topic. Anybody else? [[ talk:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:05, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm also experiencing the same error. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 18:19, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]], @[[User:Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi Hinanawi]]: Sorry about that; it was due to a production mis-configuration that I've worked around for now. Unfortunately the same bug also meant that the community's first Abstract articles were all mis-created into the <code>Abstract Wikipedia:</code> namespace, and I don't think we can move them into the proper positions right now, so they'll need to be re-created. Please reply here, on [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]], or file any issues you run into in Phabricator. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:34, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::The new abstract table is breaking globalcontribs counter across all Wikis, [[:phab:T420632]] [[User:Shushugah|Shushugah]] ([[User talk:Shushugah|talk]]) 18:51, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Horray! 🎉 == This is just a celebratory post acknowledging the milestone of getting this project started. Great work on the engineering team so far, now we can get some community creating content as well! [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:53, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :I want to contribute but I'm a bit lost with the function editor so I'll wait until some documentation is uploaded on the community page. [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 18:55, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :🎉🎉🎉! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Local help page == The Help page in the sidebar goes to [[mw:Help:Contents]]. We should change that to just [[Help:Contents]]. (But I guess for that we need a local admin as well.) [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 18:59, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Ainali|Ainali]], done. But the page [[Help:Contents]] needs to be written. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 19:13, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Is there a caching thing, that it is still not working? We have [[MediaWiki:Helppage]], but the link in the sidebar still goes to Mediawiki for me. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Try [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_Wikipedia:Project_chat?action=purge purge]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:59, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I tried purging, it doesn't help. Interestingly, if I change the interface language to English, I get the new link, but not when I use it in Swedish. A bug, or do we need to define this for each language? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 12:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::couldn’t find the solution, I think it's because multilingual feature hasn’t enabled yet. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 13:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Now it works, without any new purging. Weird (but good). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 15:36, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == qqx doesn't seem to work == I switched my user interface language to Hebrew. I'm trying to [[Special:CreateAbstract/Q18383|create a page]]. There's a plus button under "lead paragraph (Q8776414)". It has several items that begin with "Add" and continue with English strings that are probably function names: "section title", "paragraph", "HTML unordered list", etc. I tried using uselang=qqx to see what functions those are, but then the editing interface is not loaded at all. I see a yellow box with this text: : (wikilambda-initialize-error) : (wikilambda-renderer-error-footer-project-chat) uselang=qqx works quite nicely in Wikifunctions and shows ZIDs of objects when their labels are used in the interface, but it seems to fail here. It would be quite nice to make it work. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:06, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Visual editor on this page == The first time I posted something here on this page (using DiscussionTools), I noticed a mistake and wanted to fix it. I clicked "edit" near the section heading, and it started editing the whole page in Visual editor. If I recall correctly, the default on other wikis is that the edit button next to the section heading on discussion pages opens only that section and in the wikitext editor. It should probably be the same here. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 19:10, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :[[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem]] would be more appropriate. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:14, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Temporary adminship == I'm requesting temporary adminship here (for 24 hours to a week) to help set up the wiki on the community side. As administrator on Wikifunctions, I designed the current layout of the main page (also used locally), among other things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:16, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :{{ping|Feeglgeef}} while I agree that temporary adminship could be useful, both personally and as a steward, I'm not sure it's a good idea to grant this request. First of all, you didn't really say why you need admin rights (and your history, both on Wikifunctions and Meta, make me want to be extra cautious). In the meantime, stewards and global admins can also (and already do) help if needed, don't hesitate to ask. Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 21:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, right! Please update the main page as I've requested on its talk page, as well as delete the existing pages on the Abstract Wikipedia namespace with QIDs (they are now redundant), and add the correct license to [[MediaWiki:License]]. I have a few more things, but they're relatively minor. Consider the above request retracted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:29, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::{{reply to|VIGNERON}} ? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} yes ? please [https://dontasktoask.com/ Don't ask to ask, just ask]. Cdlt, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 16:28, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|VIGNERON}} I wanted you to do the things I asked in the above reply (which you ignored :(. ). The main page is fixed and the license is fine (not complete, but alas), but any page following the pattern "Abstract Wikipedia:Q[n]" should be deleted. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:57, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::{{reply to|Feeglgeef}} I did the deletion this morning, did I miss any pages? Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 18:00, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Templates - per usual or as abstract content? == I was about to import a few templates that can come in handy in discussions and other meta-related activities but then realized that it may be a great use case for abstract content. Or will it not be possible to do it in that way on this wiki (or at all)? [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:28, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :Calling functions here is currently possible, but some templates are impossible to replace and functions are inconvenient in any case. It'd be helpful if you said which templates you intended to import, but generally I'd say import them. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:33, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::I think what I wonder most is if we always should do multilingual templates with the traditional <code><nowiki><translate></nowiki></code> tags or use functions wherever we can. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:42, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::The problem with "functions wherever we can" is that most template-like functions are content based, like abbr or 0. I'm assuming you mean templates that are more about meta stuff, which probably should '''not''' be functions, at least under the current idea. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:46, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yes, I was only thinking about meta stuff. Where can I read about this idea you are referring to? It seems important enough that it should be part of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Scope|this project's scope]] (or similar page/policy). [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 19:52, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::It's not written down, I suppose. I didn't mean there was a rule against creating the functions, (feel free, if you'd like). The main problem with putting them on Wikifunctions is speed and the fact that you must use HTML fragments (no wikitext), which to me makes it unreasonable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:56, 19 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair point of view. The reason I asked was that it would be an excellent way of [[d:Q3033752|Q3033752]] (note to self, we need the functionality of [[d:Template:Q]]). If we get used here to not falling back into wikitext, we get more training at creating excellent abstract content. [[User:Ainali|Ainali]] ([[User talk:Ainali|talk]]) 20:03, 19 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I haven’t tried an embedded function on an AW Project page, so I suppose I should… if you’ll forgive me! :::::::{{#function:Z32878|Q2013|}} [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:37, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == Articles now creatable properly == Hello all! To those not on the telegram (or not following), articles are now able to be created in the correct way. Any articles you have previously made will need to be recreated. I'd courtesy ping those who have already created one but it seems we don't have that set up yet! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC) == Testing from a different language == I have set the UI to Spanish and there are some menus not translated (Create an article in the sidebar, for example). Where can I translate the content I see missing? Also, I tried to create a very simple abstract article on the environment ([[Q43619]]) and it fails to render (Wikifunctions returned a failed response: Alcanzado el límite de tiempo en el Orquestador): I also found a random, decently big one ([[Q408]]) and it keeps loading for five minutes already in Spanish. Finally, if this is going to be with the purpose of multi lingual edition, shouldn't help and talk pages like these be also automatically translated? Because otherwise it becomes just an output of information, an editor who isn't familiar with English would be able to read the Abstract Wikipedia in their language but unable to provide feedback (as I'm doing now). [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 06:56, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I am not sure that we want "automatic" translation. But regular translation, I truly agree that we should have. There is a Phabricator created to enable the Translate extension on this wiki ([[Phab:T420656]]). <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|diskussion]]}_{[[Special:Bidrag/Ainali|bidrag]]}</small> 07:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yes at least the ability to translate user messages, so that I for example could read the messages in this page in Spanish and reply in Spanish, and the rest of users translate them to their local languages. Otherwise cross-lingual collaborative effort isn't going to work unless everyone has a decent level of English as a second language. Thank you for the link! [[User:Hathor1719|Hathor1719]] ([[User talk:Hathor1719|talk]]) 08:42, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :: ::I would greatly appreciate automatic per-comment translation (the way Discourse implements it), and hope we find a way to implement that for the truly multilingual sites like this. In the wiki spirit, the outputs of the automatic translation should be savable and editable so that a) the computation of auto-translation only happens once into each target language and b) everyone can improve each of those translations. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) == Using Function IDs == It seems like when creating an article you cannot insert a function ID (i.e. Z6839) in a function call's function field and you have to type in it's name and hope it pops up (which it seems as though it doesn't always). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Not showing functions that return strings where an HTML fragment is needed == It might be good to adjust the search function inside the abstract wikipedia editor to show functions that return strings as grayed-out where an HTML fragment is needed, as it took me a while to realize that [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z24102 label of item reference in specific/general lang] returns a string and not an HTML fragment, meaning that it doesn't show up when searching. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 13:30, 20 March 2026 (UTC) == Cannot find Lorrain in the language list == Hi, I wanted to try generating an article in lorrain ([[d:Q671198]]), but it does not appear in the selection list. Where can I ask for it to be added, so that I can try experimenting with it? Thanks! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 19:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :I'm not certain, but I know it's a bit of a process that I think begins on Wikidata. Even if it were added, there would be no support for it in community-made functions, so for the foreseeable future this will be impossible. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:54, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::There are already plenty of lexemes in lorrain on Wikidata. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 20:38, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::Can you point me to them? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::::https://w.wiki/FiVz [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 06:12, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I see no reason for not adding this to our list of languages, after all we already have plenty of languages, including dialects like [[f:Z1640]]. {{ping|Poslovitch}} does this mean you are volunteering to create wikifunctions in lorrain 🤣 Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 09:50, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] Of course! I suppose this means the fonctions will need to support the many ways to write in lorrain, since it is not standardized. Do you have any examples of functions that support such things? [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 09:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::I tried creating a "Natural language" object on Wikifunctions, but it seems I don't have permission to do this. &lt;rant&gt;Why is it always so hard with languages that have no ISO codes :sob: &lt;/rant&gt; [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 13:32, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::::You wouldn’t be able to create a Natural language object even if you did have an ISO code to hand. Could you raise a ticket on Phabricator, tagged with [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/abstract_wikipedia_team/ Abstract Wikipedia team]? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:54, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Thanks @[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], will do! [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 14:56, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Raised: [[phab:T420823]]. [[User:Poslovitch|Poslovitch]] ([[User talk:Poslovitch|talk]]) 15:09, 21 March 2026 (UTC) == Project namespace alias == On all other Wikipedias, "WP" is an alias of the Project namespace. Why isn't it here? There's also "Abstract", but that's too long for my liking. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 21:48, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :Noting that this has been discussed multiple times on the telegram. I would prefer AWP, but it doesn't really matter. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-17446-79|&#126;2026-17446-79]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-17446-79|talk]]) 22:02, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :well it’s not like another language version of Wikipedia, and there're still confusion if it’s a sister project or else. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Tanbiruzzaman}} It is listed as a Wikipedia on [[Special:SiteMatrix]]. The domain and database ID says so as well. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 22:13, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :::It was an initial process to connect wikidata, but will be configured later, per [[phab:T420420]] (also check comments in [[phab:T420643]]). [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 22:32, 20 March 2026 (UTC) :On a similar note, is there a reason why [[Main Page]] is a redlink? Feels useful to redirect it to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Main page]]. //[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:33, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::redirect from mainspace is not possible here, I guess. You may give a try. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 07:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::Fair enough I guess. --[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]] ([[User talk:SHB2000|talk]]) 07:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I can do it if I'm an admin. This project has no local admins or bureaucrats. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I tried to create it and it shows "The provided title 'Main_Page' is not valid for an Abstract Article.", also tried to change the content model to wikitext and shows the same error. Note that I also have the similar technical rights as admin. @[[User:Koavf|Koavf]], is there another way you'd try if you're an administrator? [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 03:44, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Import from another project's "[[Main Page]]". I did this at [[:d:Main Page]] (but the community decided to delete it, which I did). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:47, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::We do not have [[:f:Main Page]] either and I do not see why it would be needed here. --[[User:Ameisenigel|Ameisenigel]] ([[User talk:Ameisenigel|talk]]) 23:06, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::I can easily imagine the scenario where there are incoming links to it. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 23:58, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:SHB2000|SHB2000]]: Because the main namespace is not meant to have anything other than abstract articles in it, the same as for Wikifunctions and Wikidata. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 18:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I checked the [[Special:NamespaceInfo|namespace information]] to see if there were any aliases for the Project namespace and I saw that Abstract: was an alias. Would that conflict with the interwiki prefix abstract:? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 23:07, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Making it easier to contribute == I'm aware that we're only a few days into the public beta of this project, and everything is a little rough around the edges, but I thought it could be useful to come up with some goals to work towards in order to make the site more accommodating and easier to contribute to, for newer and more experienced editors alike. (If there's a place where this discussion is already taking place please tell me and I can move there). Here are some thoughts I had so far: * Most of the current articles are extremely short, just one or two sentences long. I think it would be good to pick one article in each of a few main categories (e.g. one country, one type of food, one notable person, etc.) and work to try to include as much relevant information as possible, to serve as an example for future articles of similar types. * As I understand it, a lot of the limitations for what kind of information we can include in an article is due to which functions exist on Wikifunctions. We have [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]], which is a good way to find some functions, but this list can't include every single function, so it would be good to have some way to find relevant functions on Wikifunctions. Is there a category containing AWP-related functions there? I'm not too familiar with Wikifunctions yet but if there is a category, we should link it there. * In a similar vein, it seems like there are very few such functions currently available. It would be good to have some kind of guide as to how to create such functions that can be used here. I tried creating a new function there yesterday and it took me a while to find my way around, and I still haven't figured it out completely, so a guide specifically for people wanting to improve Abstract Wikipedia could be useful. * Lastly it might be worth coming up with a list of policies and guidelines that we want to make to begin with. Currently there are none, and obviously it's quite time consuming to create new policies, but coming up with a set of basic ones would be helpful I think. Let me know your thoughts. Cheers, &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:52, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :Just had a closer look at Wikifunctions; seems [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue/Natural language operations/Global language functions]] might be a good place to link to. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 20:00, 21 March 2026 (UTC) ::I support the goal of making it easier to contribute. From my point of view a place where people can write example sentences in specific languages about specific facts and can request a function for it will be useful. So far I it is difficult for me to understand how it is possible to define content in a abstract way and convert it into texts in different natural languages. It seems to me like it requires to much available data at functions and Wikidata Lexemes what is not there for many small languages so far. So I prefer a monolingual approach based on Wikidata statements. Then people can write sentences what explain a specific Wikidata statement or multiple ones and this can be done for many languages. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:49, 21 March 2026 (UTC) :I do agree that creating these linguistic functions would be easier if we had a guide, though it's not exactly a cut and paste process (it requires a lot of thinking to figure out edge cases, whether your use case makes sense across languages, what will be included in the scope of your function, what will not be, what the utility will be, etc.). An example of thinking this out poorly is [[f:Z31405]], where it's painfullyy clear that the Abstract Wikipedia team didn't think these questions through well enough, where the description says that they couldn't even decide whether the function would output a phrase or a noun, there is little to no utility in composing articles, and the edge cases are insurmountable with their current approach. :It's not exactly the same, but I've noted on the telegram that we should make it easier to make new language versions of existing functions. Unlike object labels, however, that requires either programming experience or a very in-depth tutorial, which we do not have. The lack of language-versions is natural if you think about it (if 1% of the world can make a Wikifunctions function and 1% can translate the concepts effectively between the languages we want, 0.01% can help us here), so the tutorial route seems like the only logical method. Spreading awareness as to contributing this way on the main page could also be helpful [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:35, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah, some kind of tutorial would be phenomenal. There could be some walk-through tutorials for creating some basic linguistic functions. That seems to be the bottleneck to progress here - practically all sentences follow the format "X is Y". ::I've been looking forward to Abstract for awhile now (finding out it released yesterday, a bit too late), but it's completely unapproachable - it feels like I need a master's degree in both Computer Science and Linguistics in order to contribute to the growth of this project. It's a new project, sure, but it took at least an hour to write two sentences in [[Q711|Q711 (Mongolia)]]. Doesn't help that I only speak English. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :I suggest a bot that extract useful information and statistics including which functions are used. [[github:dpriskorn/wf-dump-scripts|See my prototype pipeline]]. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:26, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Involving small language versions == As Abstract Wikipedia can help small Wikipedia language versions offering more content in this language I think it is important to try to get people from such projects involved. From my point of view the highest chance to get it done is if people who know people contributing to small language version talk to the contributors and invite them to contribute to Abstract Wikipedia. In Wikifunctions I expected more involvement of small language versions and I think it is important to make it easier to contribute and find a way how to communicate with people who do not speak English. As it is not the case everyone can speak this language. What do you think how is it possible to get more people from small Wikipedia language versions involved in Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:55, 21 March 2026 (UTC) : I am interested in using AW/WF with the [[incubator:]], perhaps a workflow could be developed for that. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 18:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :: Have you tried to call Wikifunctions functions in the Incubatorwiki. I think adding language specific implementatations is the first step. It seems to me like simple sentences can be generated through calling Wikifunctions functions and so for this no Abstract Wikipedia is required. — [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:38, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::: I'll try it. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 06:02, 23 March 2026 (UTC) == URL-Parameter for specific language == Is it possible to call an abstract Wikipedia article with a URL-Parameter specifying the language. I looked for random pages and I got examples without a german Implementation. I am interested in sharing an example and for this I want to set a link people can klick on to get the result in the expected language afterwards. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:43, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :You can add "?uselang=de" to render the article in German, if that is what you mean. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:41, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]]: Yes, like with Wikifunctions you should be able to go to <code>/view/fr/Q123456</code> but that's waiting for some production re-configuration to work. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 13:12, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::Great 🤩 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:28, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == Purpose of language-specific functions? == Some functions that produce sentences seem to have language-specific functions for every language, I.e. "Brazilian Sign Language: article-less defining". Why is this? What functions have this multiplicity? I thought one point of AWP was to have language-independend functions, all of which have specifications for how they would render outputs in different languages (where the choice of output language is decided at the client, or at the final step of rendering, not for each function in turn). [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 21:23, 22 March 2026 (UTC) :This is just a side effect of how Wikifunctions works. Essentially the generic "Article-less defining fragment" checks which language you want, and then calls the language-specific version. You should only use the generic ones in abstract articles. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 21:50, 22 March 2026 (UTC) ::Aha thanks, then the interface should probably not be showing the hundreds of language-specific ones in the selector drop-down for editors. [[User:Sj|Sj]] ([[User talk:Sj|talk]]) 18:55, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :::Agreed, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to filter them out; there's not really anything distinguishing them from the general functions, they're both functions that take some input and return monolingual text as output. Maybe worth opening a phabricator ticket to get the opinion of people on the technical side of Abstract Wikipedia. &#123;&#123;[[User:GearsDatapacks|GearsDatapacks]]&#124;[[User talk:GearsDatapacks|talk]]&#124;[[Special:Contributions/GearsDatapacks|contribs]]&#125;&#125; 19:39, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I think the best way to do it would be to have some sort of tag for "multilingual function"? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:43, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::Yes. I think this reveals that there are (at least) two kinds of functions on Wikifunctions. Those that are (mainly) helper functions (although they may be useful for external reuse or in abstract articles about a language) and Abstract-ready functions. Having a way to mark them as such on Wikidata, and then by default filter on Wikifunctions would increase usability a lot. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:22, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::I agree that we need to be able to reduce the noise when finding functions. ::::::I also agree that it would be very valuable to create function categories and be able to filter when searching. ::::::I also agree that defaulting on AW to "top-level" functions is a good idea. ::::::@ainali what do y mean mark them in Wikidata? Functions are not notable there if I understood correctly. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:33, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:So9q|So9q]] Oh, it's my mistake, mind wandering while writing. Instead of "on Wikidata" I meant "in metadata". <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:48, 31 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Oh, ok, I agree. My prototype to extract statistics could be used to find sll top level html functions. ::::::::We could limit it to functions over a certain number to not count the built in functions. ::::::::We could do quite a lot of work with the data to help people gaps. E.g. most used functions in AW missing support for Swedish for example. 😀 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:17, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::The prototype script used to generate https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Statistics/Z8 could rather easily be forked and adapted to AW 😀 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:45, 1 April 2026 (UTC) == "It" in abstract wikipedia == How should the concept of "it" be represented in abstract wikipedia? Otherwise it leads to a lot of sentences like "Brussels is the capital of Belgium. Brussels is a large city. Brussels is...". Also, is there any plans for some form of easier to understand "authoring language" or something? The current approach with writing wikifunctions is hard to understand and write. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:35, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :Every concept is represented in Abstract Wikipedia through its Wikidata item, which would be [[d:Q6091500]] in this case. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by an "authoring language" (some sample texts of your idea would be helpful), but I don't think there's much improvement to be had while still writing in an abstract language (that is to say, most improvements would make the language more concrete). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 20:18, 23 March 2026 (UTC) ::I mean more like a format easier to work with than wikifunctions. Like some form of computer-parsable conlang which can be "compiled" into wikifunctions. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 20:47, 23 March 2026 (UTC) :This is a tough problem, because the pronoun you would use is semantically different in different languages. I think we have to make a "refer to previously-mentioned" function that takes a Wikidata item, reads properties like person or object, (linguistic) gender, etc, and spits out a pronoun. Hopefully it can be done that simply. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:41, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Yeah that would make sense. I can try to draft one for English (that's the only language I know at least for now) so we can get a proof of concept. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:48, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Ooh. I could be wrong but I think wikidata doesn't have a property for "grammatical gender". For English I'll probably match on P21 and if it's an instance of Q5, and if it doesn't have P21 and is an instance of Q5 do they/them, if not an instance of Q5 and doesn't have P21 it/its, and otherwise match on P21. Also we'll need multiple "refer to" functions for different types of pronouns (possessive, nominative, etc). [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 18:57, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::About the grammatical gender property: yeah, you're probably right. That's the tough part, because we're going to need individual properties for every language with grammatical gender. See the similar discussion about classifier/measure words and articles below. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 19:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] We do have [[:d:Property:P5185]], but this is applied only to lexemes and not to items. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Supported languages for an article == Is there a possiblity to see all languages an article can be displayed in. I looked at [[Q2290517]] and it seems like there is not yet a German version for this article. From my point of view knowing what articles are missing in the language of interest is important for working on abstract articles. As I looked at random pages I got a timeout as my user interface is in German and the generation of the article in German was not sucessful. So I think it is also necessary for checking if the article can be displayed in the user interface language. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 21:17, 24 March 2026 (UTC) :This is not something that is convenient to check at all. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:55, 24 March 2026 (UTC) ::It would be great if it were clearer which was the first (or all, if possible) function that failed to render in a language to help the user go make necessary additions on Wikifunctions. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 08:24, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::I agree, I recently wrote the team and suggested a clear backtrace so the user can see an overview of the chain of functions and steps in which step failed in which function. :::I'm imagining something like the GitHub actions job pipeline overview, where you can easily see the process and the output from the failing step. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 06:41, 31 March 2026 (UTC) == [[f:Z26039|Z26039]] and [[f:Z26095|Z26095]] == This is a big mistake, and it's best we fix it now. Anything relating to particular languages or even groups of languages needs to stay all the way out of the generic functions. Languages have different rules for articles, some of them don't even have articles. This kind of thing cannot be reconciled at the general function-level. As to the alternate way we deal with this, that's a little tougher. My first thought is a bunch of Wikidata properties that tell you whether an article precedes an entity's label in a particular language. That idea could work, but there are some obvious problems: *Are there languages where the presence of an article is contextual, too? *No one will fill these properties, especially in languages other than English, because we will accumulate dozens of them that have to go on every single word ever [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :Can you give me an example of a language where this distinction actively prevents the functions from working? Some languages do not have articles, but that just means that the two are interchangeable. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Trivially. ::*[[w:Golf|Golf]] on enwiki: "Golf is a club-and-ball sport in which players use various clubs to hit a ball into a series of holes on a course in as few strokes as possible." ::*[[w:es:Golf|Golf]] on eswiki: "El golf es un deporte cuyo objetivo es introducir una bola en los hoyos que están distribuidos en el campo con el menor número de golpes, utilizando para cada tipo de golpe uno de entre un conjunto de palos ligeramente diferentes entre sí, ya que la cabeza del palo tiene ángulos distintos, al igual que las varillas tienen longitudes diferentes." ::[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::That's not a meaningful difference, though, and both examples use Z26039. Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings, they aren't stylistic choices. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:01, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::<em>Stylistic choice?</em> Is this a joke? Do you think the word "the" in English is a stylistic choice? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:19, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::I mean, yes? If you can be understood perfectly without it that's what it is. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::You just said "Z26039 and Z26095 have different semantic meanings". [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 16:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes. "The" has no semantic meaning, but there is a semantic difference between "A bird is a dinosaur" and "Bird is a dinosaur" (The latter is about a specific animal names Bird). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It does though, no? See Wiktionary's second example: ::::::::: ''You live on Main Street, don't you? You know, you should tell the mayor '''the''' street needs cleaning.'' ::::::::Generally it's used to refer to a singular identifiable instance (there's more definitions, but this is the primary one), which I think is definitely enough to put it outside of "no semantic meaning". [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:18, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I can understand it perfectly fine if you remove "the", though. The fact that the thing can be obviously identified with "the" means that it can be obviously identified without it. It's convenient, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::The solution you're proposing to the problem at hand is pretty much "completely abandon grammatical articles in every language except English". You're right that it's not the end of the world, but we should at least try to solve the problem first. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 21:26, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::No. That's definitely ''not'' what I'm saying. I'm disputing your insinuation that something is wrong with our current approach. We can solve any stylistic problems on a language by language basis, and semantic problems in the abstract content. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :By the way, even a single generic function for "X is a Y" is already too much, it neglects [[w:measure word|measure word]]s in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 13:39, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Oh god... measure words. How the fuck do we deal with measure words? ::Have a look at the article for [[w:Chinese classifiers|Chinese classifiers]]. I have no idea how to deal with these. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 14:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::I would presume Wikidata has those available to find? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:09, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::No, I just checked and Wikidata doesn't have a property for this yet. We would need to do a decent amount of workshopping to define such a property well for the proposal there (it wouldn't just be "Chinese classifier for"; I think something like "Chinese count-classifier for"? The count-classifiers that simply disappear in Germanic languages are the real concern, as the mass-classifiers can generally be paired with the noun to translate into an English word) but I think it could work barring some edge cases. ::::My main concern is if fundamentally we want to solve these sorts of problems this way. If so, we're going to be asking Wikidata to make hundreds if not thousands of properties over the coming months. Is that the best way to do this? I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::And... is it going to <em>work?</em> How many Wikidata items only have a label in one or two languages as-is? This is only going to exacerbate that problem by quadrupling the work to translate a word, and putting us basically at square one. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:27, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] There is [[:d:Property:P5978]] which can be used to say that a particular lexeme sense is used with a specific classifier (not just in Mandarin but also in languages like Malay), as well as [[:d:Property:P10927]] which can indicate the reverse relation (but for parsimony's sake should point to more general classes rather than to every applicable sense in existence). [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:53, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]]: Thank you, I didn't know about Wikidata's work on lexemes. This seems a lot more doable now. Question: is there any way to move from an item to a lexeme, e.g. if I had [[d:Q81727]] and I wanted [[d:L:L3965]]? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 20:58, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] re: your first sentence, I suspect that most people with questions here are clueless about lexemes (something the Abstract Wikipedia team made a grave mistake in not properly having addressed before this launch). In general links go from lexeme senses to items and not the other way around, [[:d:Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/Documentation/Senses#Properties_regarding_relationships_to_Wikidata_items|with several properties available to do so]], and while there is a Wikifunction to go from an item to a lexeme, I cannot endorse the current method of composing abstract articles (<small>see my reply under "Authoring Language" below</small>) enough to mention what Wikifunction that is. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 21:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::The function being referred to by Mahir is [[f:Z6830]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::It would be helpful if you read a bit about the project before insisting that we're doing it wrong. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18667-44|&#126;2026-18667-44]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18667-44|talk]]) 22:11, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::Could you elaborate? [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 22:15, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::::You don't even know about Lexemes, much less the complexities of the project. You come into the project chat without the slightest sliver of a clue and then tell everyone that they are "making a big mistake." Perhaps next time you could phrase it like "What is the distinction between these two functions? Does this not present concerns about XYZ?" [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-18688-73|&#126;2026-18688-73]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-18688-73|talk]]) 02:09, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::::I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 02:18, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :Is it just me or does 26039 only return void? [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:31, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::Does for me, too, the English version anyway. [[User:Snowmanonahoe|Snowmanonahoe]] ([[User talk:Snowmanonahoe|talk]]) 18:42, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :::If my debugging is right, everything except Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian is completely broken. [[User:MetalBreaksAndBends|MetalBreaksAndBends]] ([[User talk:MetalBreaksAndBends|talk]]) 18:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC) ::::For me, English renders fine now [perhaps due to a recent edit? hard to be sure]. Not sure if it's entirely fixed though. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I agree there is a problem with the current approach. My proposed solution: I'm hoping the top level call from Abstract Wikipedia will be optionally allowed to send parameters like the grammatical number "plural" of the subject, which could be considered by the specific language alongside other context about the subject/object item to formulate the grammar (e.g. [[f:Z32496]]), and by the time it gets to the English constructor (e.g. [[f:Z32410]]), the English function will have the "subject is plural" boolean set (to decide "has"/"have" as well as the articles). I'm working on this particular example and all the required helper functions. If the English version works, I'll seek to make a configuration that allows similar in other languages. PS off topic, but I also think we will often want these functions to return HTML not monolingual text, so that we can embed hyperlinks. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 02:37, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::HTML is ideal because you don't need to convert it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:16, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::I’m not sure we want to favour particular features; don’t we simply want to determine the relevant set of lexemes for an item/language pairing? We don’t have selective fetch for lexemes, so the set may need to be limited, but identifying the more salient lexemes still requires considering the full set, unless we filter by “lexical similarity” between the item’s labels and/or aliases and the lexeme’s lemma and/or forms. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:58, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::I don't quite understand what you are objecting to, or what problem you forsee. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:22, 27 March 2026 (UTC) ::::I’m not objecting to anything, although the notion of “sending” is a little alien in a functional context. The problem is knowing which features (predicates) are most salient. I guess it’s simply an optimisation, so further relevant details can be fetched later if the context requires them. But I’d still think in terms of filtered statement sets, and perhaps different filters per language. If we’re going to be language specific, it’s natural to consider extending the selective fetch to include sense-related lexemes. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 11:26, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Authoring Language == Wikifunctions are kind of a pain to work with directly (no offense to the creators of them, they're an amazing platform and overall very impressive, just kind of by their nature they are built to be more abstract and closer to lambda calculus over "regular" programming languages), and that extends to Abstract Wikipedia. Has it been thought about making a sort of "authoring language" that is easier to work with than directly using Wikifunctions, but then "compiles" directly to Wikifunctions? My idea is sort of making a computer-parsable, natural language-agnostic conlang or even just some sort of custom markup language that could optionally be used to write abwiki articles and then would be stored along with the compiled wikifunctions and a timestamp of last compile so if an update was made then previous articles could be recompiled automatically. I'm of course not one of the abwiki staff members, so if this doesn't fit the "spirit" of it or something let me know, but I think it'd be helpful. [[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] ([[User talk:VivianIsBee|talk]]) 19:14, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :I proposed adding support for Spreadsheetfunctions to Wikifunctions. It is better than defining a new language. From my point of view there are in relation to other programming languages many people who can write spreadsheet functions and they are translated into many different natural languages. In the past I did some experiments regarding the automatical conversion of Spreadsheet functions into the programming language R. I am interested in defining an Abstract Article in an Spreadsheet and I think it is possible. It is from my point of view important to lower the barrer to create an Abstract Article and creating functions in Wikifunctions. Maybe the goal of making it abstract makes it more complicated and language specific functions are easier to create for many people. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:VivianIsBee|VivianIsBee]] I have presented to the Abstract Wikipedia team about an abstract content authoring language [[f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-10-17|multiple]] [https://elemwala.toolforge.org/static/nlgsig-nov2025.html times]. It is unfortunate that the current infrastructure does not seek to support this yet. [[User:Mahir256|Mahir256]] ([[User talk:Mahir256|talk]]) 20:49, 25 March 2026 (UTC) == Definite articles == Heya! Been working on the page [[Q778]] [and thus the [https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z26570 Z26570] function] - is there a way to check if a word needs a definite article [i.e. the] or not? Right now it's "''The Bahamas is an island country in Caribbean.''" which is close but needs a definite article [before Caribbean]. But I can't just always add it, since cases like "''Lubeck is a city in the Germany.''" would be wrong. Is there any solution for this yet? [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 21:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :IIRC this has been discussed on the telegram/IRC. Not sure if a solution was found. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:23, 25 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:99of9|99of9]] is working on this: [[:f:Z32645]] [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:02, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::hmm, tried adding this to [[f:Z30397]], but it makes it return an empty string for some reason? presumably i'm doing something wrong but not sure what... :( [faulty implementation at [[f:Z32738]]] [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 19:55, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::The reason was that the argument to Z32645 is a Wikidata item reference, not a Wikidata item. I've fixed it now. But I switched it so that it only adds the definite article when the Kleenean is absolutely True, more than Maybe. I hope I will be able to achieve that for Caribbean, although it doesn't currently do so. I'll keep working on it today. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 00:20, 27 March 2026 (UTC) == Editing the direct code of pages == I find the current GUI editor to be quite clunky and harder for more complex topics. I'm assuming there is some way that I can edit the code of pages, so I can more quickly write functions without clicking through GUIs. Like I heavily doubt someone wrote [[Q15433043]] by clicking through GUIs. Also, does anyone know of a function that concats two strings with a space in between? Would I just use [[wikifunctions:Z21394|Z21394]], adding a space between two calls to objects (i.e. "Mars" + " " + "Jupiter")? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:19, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :For [[Q15433043]], it looks like they just wrote it in plain English and didn't use functions, so that's why it's so long I think. For joining, [[f:Z22504]] looks like a pretty good option. [[User:Infernostars|Infernostars]] ([[User talk:Infernostars|talk]]) 20:40, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thanks, that looks good. I hope more languages support it down the road. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::When I try to insert this in a [[wikifunctions:Z28016|"defining role sentence"]], it doesn't appear and throws an error. Do you know why? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:51, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :There are several, but I think they are best left to language-specific functions on Wikifunctions. How do you know that a space is required? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 20:42, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::For example, in [[Q711|Mongolia]], I would like to write "Ulaanbaatar is the capital and largest city of Mongolia". As of now, I would have to write that in two separate sentences and be very repetitive. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:46, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::There’s a long journey ahead of us. At this stage I’d be thinking more in terms of [[f:Z32163]]. At least that way we can join adjacent sentences more naturally, when we have appropriate functions to do that. And we can implement “paragraph” differently according to the target language, without having to change the existing abstract content. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Yeah that's what I expected, the project has just started after all. Thanks for this. ::::How are you finding these functions? I'm having trouble locating them. Also, is there a way that I can copy and paste functions from one article to another in the case of cookie-cutter articles? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 21:45, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::You can copy individual function calls in edit mode. Just click on the three vertical dots and select Copy to clipboard. This is currently specific to a particular browser and site, so you cannot copy between Wikifunctions and AW. You can also copy parts of calls by clicking on the three horizontal dots [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:26, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Great, I didn't see that, thank you! So there is no current way to edit the underlying code of the page? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 22:35, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::It depends what you mean by “underlying code”. All articles are a list of one or more sections containing function calls. You can add and remove sections (apart from the first) and move sections up and down. Within a section, you can move function calls up and down, but you can only move a function call (or part of one) from one section to another by using the clipboard. The real underlying code is the functions themselves, and these can be amended on Wikifunctions. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:44, 26 March 2026 (UTC) :::::For tips on finding functions, please see [[:f:Wikifunctions:Find]]. It is also helpful to look at other AW articles, of course. On Wikifunctions, you can look at a related function’s implementations or test cases, as these may reference broader or narrower functions. And “What links here” is available from the Tools menu. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:38, 26 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Thank you very much for you help. I think that's all I need to know for now, happy editing :) [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 23:07, 26 March 2026 (UTC) == Code editing == I created and am attempting to edit [[Q687168]]. It is difficult to figure out what is going on because I am stuck at a visual editor. I would like to play around with comparing it to code on other pages, but the visual thing makes that pretty difficult. Also is there a way to edit things in a sandbox or something so I can experiment without it being in mainspace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:25, 27 March 2026 (UTC) :Code-based (as in, the underlying form articles are stored in, which was temporarily visible due to a bug when the wiki was just being set up) editing is currently not possible, and I'm not sure if the development team has any plan to implement it (cc {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}). As for your issue, you should not be using a literal string, but a function call instead, which allows you to use one of the functions on Wikifunctions (how to pictured). Though the project is in its early days, a general guide on creating articles is available at [[Help:How to create an article]] with links to other helpful pages. As for sandboxes, you can subscribe to the [[phab:T421417| task on Phabricator]] if you have an account there. [[File:Set literal string to function call guide, Abstract Wikipedia.png|thumb|How to convert to function call]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:40, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::Well I really hope that they implement code editing because wikidata is okay since it only has properties. But these functions are just too much. I feel like I should be able to relatively easily take code from one article and put it on another one. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You can use the copying feature! If you click the 3 dots next to a function call you get an option to copy, which you can then paste elsewhere using the same 3 dots. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 03:06, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::Thank you. I do not think that this is the best alternative, but it is better [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC) == Put this on ice == How are non-English speakers (who this project is specifically for) meant to develop this wiki's practices and policies if a) all project pages are only available in English, and discussion is largely done in English, and b) there's no attempt to get non-en.wiki communities onboard. At present this looks like it's just going to produce Anglocentric/Eurocentric content, which belies the whole point of having a wiki in one's native language. Yes it's early days and everyone is experimenting and bug-fixing, but the project has already been released to community control, with a predominantly English-speaking/European community. This needs to be put on ice until it can be launched properly with multilingual support and invitations to all wikis, particularly smaller ones. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 11:44, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it needs to be shut down. These are all gradual processes. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:58, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::There’s being "not perfect" where things can be improved at a later date, and then there's having antithetical foundations. Also see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Warudo-20260327114000-Warudo-20260327113600] re functions. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 16:15, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::You haven't named a single thing that can't be improved at a later date. We're hoping to be able to translate project pages. Non-enwiki communities can be gotten on board later. Function generation already works multilingually in many cases, and those where it does not can be improved. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:57, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::When the practices and policies will have already been developed, and informal positions of authority already filled. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 17:04, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] Thank you for your concerns. We are already aiming at less-served communities through specific calls to action to create more language functions and abstract content in their language. Just give the time to actually see these changes happen. Cheers, [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 18:55, 28 March 2026 (UTC) ::::::Hi Sannita, I'm just wondering how are AW project pages planned to be translated in the future? Is there going to be use of some kind of automated tool such as DeepL or Google Translate, or will it be a custom-designed system? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:39, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] We will enable the Translate extension soon, so everyone will be able to translate project pages into their own languages. Sorry for keeping you waiting on this. [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:41, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]]: thank you for your concern and suggestion. When this Beta started, we have immediately [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-19|mentioned that there might be the possibility of restarting the project]]. So that might indeed happen. :But so far, this early start of the not fully polished project allows us to learn so incredibly much. In the last few days we have learned so much more than we would have been able without the launch in months! And it helps us to focus on where to put our limited resources, so that we can make the overall project better quicker than would have been possible otherwise. From that perspective, this has been quite a success. :I am trying to understand your suggestion: what do you think would need to be in place before a possible relaunch? Which requirements would need to be met? --[[User:DVrandecic (WMF)|DVrandecic (WMF)]] ([[User talk:DVrandecic (WMF)|talk]]) 13:53, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, I wasn't aware of that. Some uninformed thoughts below. ::Re communication: ideally people would communicate using functions, and there'd be some kind of visual editor where people type in their native language and it gets translated into functions, but I realise that's a pipe dream. Something that allows people who don't have a mutual language to communicate is imo necessary, maybe there could be a tool that machine translates comments. Machine translation ''sucks'', but so long as people get the gist of what is being said, that'd be better than nothing. I dread to think what disputes would be like though. ::Re invitations, idk what has already been done, but I would've thought now would the time to get some people from smaller wikis editing and experimenting, just an invitation on a wiki's main noticeboard would probably do the trick (is there a [[meta:MassMessage]] service for updates re Abstract wiki that could be recommended?). Then a central or watchlist notice for the actual launch, hopefully by which time there'd already be a small group of editors able to assist the influx of newbies. An intuitive tutorial is also necessary, as well as an intuitive version of [[f:Wikifunctions:Catalogue]]. [[User:Kowal2701|Kowal2701]] ([[User talk:Kowal2701|talk]]) 18:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::What do you think about boilerplate templates. So writing a sentence and then marking the parts of the sentence what can be derived from Wikidataitems or the lexeme linked to it. This seems to me like an realistic approach for making it easier to contribute. I am happy you wrote about the predominantly English-speaking/European community involved in this project. It seems like it is different to contribute so far and I had the expectation people from small language versions come on their own and contribute also if they dont speak English. So far it seems to be not the case and I hope it will be easier to contribute. I think for the beginning the goal of Abstract Wikipedia should be generating sentences based on data. So supporting small language versions should be not the goal of the first phase as it seems to take some time and improvements of the structures to make it easier to contribute. Sharing the work and offering people help with creating an function for an specific sentence can be a important way of getting more content in Abstract Wikipedia. Maybe it is unrealistic to find a huge number of people who are interested in writing functions who generate text. [[User:Hogü-456|Hogü-456]] ([[User talk:Hogü-456|talk]]) 20:58, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :::[[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] is already available, as is [[Help:How to create an article]], but they are not perfect. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:05, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Wikidata has a project chat in many languages. We can do that in the future. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:28, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Anyone can write on this page in any language. Personally, I’d prefer to see the original and get it translated into English rather than trying to make sense of a poor machine translation without even knowing which language the original was in. For the same reason, I would generally reply in English. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Gendered languages == I've created [[Q79097672]], an article for a woman singer. In gendered languages however, it defaults to using masculine words. An example: in Portuguese, it reads "Arlo Parks é um cantor", when it should be "Arlo Parks é uma cantora". Is there any fix to this? [[User:Skyshifter|Skyshifter]] ([[User talk:Skyshifter|talk]]) 23:49, 28 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes. But each language is handled separately. I think Italian is doing it. German was started but got stuck… it should be working here soon. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 00:48, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::Italian is not doing it. It is just a happy coincidence that for some reason "cantante" is always treated as feminine (I have to investigate why). [[User:Dv103|Dv103]] ([[User talk:Dv103|talk]]) 19:59, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Automatically querying wikidata == Is it possible in the future for this project to have things that automatically query wikidata? Like an infobox that gives people's spouses, or a function that queries a specific property on wikidata [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:10, 29 March 2026 (UTC) :Yes, that is the long term goal. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC) ::What’s “long term” about it? We already have functions that query specific properties on Wikidata, [[f:Z32431]] being a simple example. A list of spouses seems like a fairly simple function too, although there might be performance issues if there are a lot of spouses. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:01, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :I had exactly this question. One of the example here is [[Q1033]] where I read "Nigeria is the most populous country in Africa.". The problem is that this concept is hard-coded. What if its population will decrease and it will become the second-most populous country? [[User:Wiso|Wiso]] ([[User talk:Wiso|talk]]) 08:21, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Searching for other namespaces in the search bar == Something that has always irked me with Wikidata, Wikifunctions, and now Abstract Wiki is that there are no search suggestions when you are searching in other namespaces in the search bar. For example, if I were to type "Abstract Wikipedia:", nothing shows up. Whereas on enwiki, you can do this just fine. Is this because these sites are using a more "modified" version of MediaWiki? [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 04:38, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :I also find this very annoying. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it or if it is a result of technical limitations ({{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}}?). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:41, 30 March 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]], @[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: The search interface indeed is designed to only search the Wikidata concepts that would take up the main namespace. This is conceptually the same as the search on Wikidata.org. We'd welcome Phabricator tasks for ideas on how to additionally provide wikitext community page search, though implementing that might not be a priority. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 12:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :::Hint: don’t use the Search bar… :::When it is empty, click the adjacent Search button. This takes you to the Search page. :::Type the namespace with final colon. You are prompted with available pages and the prompt is refined as you type. :::Click a page title in the suggestions or click Search for a full search in the entered namespace. :::A search with just a namespace will return no results. A search with a partial identifier will work only [[Special:Search/Talk:Q1*|with an appended asterisk]] (delete the asterisk to see page suggestions). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:11, 30 March 2026 (UTC) == List articles == I am interested in creating list articles ([[:de:Liste_der_Naturdenkmale_im_Bezirk_Mitte|like this one]]). But I have no idea what it needs and how to start. [[User:GPSLeo|GPSLeo]] ([[User talk:GPSLeo|talk]]) 19:58, 30 March 2026 (UTC) :An example I've created that you can copy and adapt is [[Q11750]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) == Logo == {{Tracked|T424781}} In vector2009 and monobook, the logo shows as the standard enwiki logo. Which is confusing as this is technically a whole other sisterproject. I suggest [[:File:Wikipedia-logo-blank.svg|this]] be used as a temporary logo for these skins. [[User:Kinopiko|Kinopiko]] ([[User talk:Kinopiko|talk]]) 06:00, 31 March 2026 (UTC) :There's also the scalable favicon, [[commons:File:Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg|Abstract-Wikipedia-favicon.svg]] [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:54, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This still appears to be as of yet unfixed. I understand this wiki is still very early in its lifespan so I'm not particularly miffed about it, it looking identical due to the logo is rather confusing at first but with separation with tab groups in my browser it becomes manageable. I am personally excited to see what logo(s) will be devised for this project; seeing the same thing happen for the other sister projects has been very fun to watch in the past. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:49, 20 April 2026 (UTC) sss06sstih93xitnkokdbjgh7hnakcj 3 2603 9099 9044 2026-05-29T14:41:29Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Translations */ Reply 9099 wikitext text/x-wiki == Welcome to Abstract Wikipedia! == <div style="border:solid medium lightgrey; border-width: medium; padding: 0.3em 0.5em;"> <div class="lang-en" lang="en"> Hello, Theki. Welcome to '''[[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Abstract Wikipedia]]'''! View the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Community portal|Community portal]] or post to the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] if you need help with something. Happy editing! </div> </div><!-- Template:Welcome --> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 19:11, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Hi! Congratulations on becoming a translation administrator! Re: marking the P&G drafts I wrote for translation, thanks for that as well. On other projects (like meta and WF) drafts generally are ''not'' marked for translation. Did you consider them to be a special case of drafts, or do you believe drafts generally ''should'' be marked for translation? I'm not trying to rhetorically criticize you or anything with this question (I've tried and failed to reword it to not come off as such), I'm genuinely curious. Thanks, [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:11, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :I do remember very well that drafts should generally not be marked for translation but I think I'm used to seeing a big box saying such at the top of a page whenever that's the case. I should have seen the hatnote and reasoned that it was too early to mark it, but I had a lapse of judgement and did so otherwise. I'm not sure if I can undo, or if I should? What a bad first impression for my first day on the job. I apologize. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:39, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :So, I removed it from translation. For the sake of brevity I will keep the translation markup out of the article until it is finalized. Doing so avoids shoving a big scary banner about editing translation source text in editors' faces as well. The old pages lay dormant at [[:Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration/en]], FuzzyBot will come and repopulate them once the policy pages are finalized. Thank you as always for your work. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:42, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you! I don't have any opinion on the matter, so I don't care, I had just wanted to know if this was meant to be precedent setting. Thanks, [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:41, 29 May 2026 (UTC) e462lrrwrct0slx6yl2ri2ezv3vl1lf 9100 9099 2026-05-29T14:46:43Z Feeglgeef 36 /* Translations */ 9100 wikitext text/x-wiki == Welcome to Abstract Wikipedia! == <div style="border:solid medium lightgrey; border-width: medium; padding: 0.3em 0.5em;"> <div class="lang-en" lang="en"> Hello, Theki. Welcome to '''[[Abstract Wikipedia:About|Abstract Wikipedia]]'''! View the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Community portal|Community portal]] or post to the [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|Project chat]] if you need help with something. Happy editing! </div> </div><!-- Template:Welcome --> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 19:11, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Translations == Hi! Congratulations on becoming a translation administrator! Re: marking the P&G drafts I wrote for translation, thanks for that as well. On other projects (like meta and WF) drafts generally are ''not'' marked for translation. Did you consider them to be a special case of drafts, or do you believe drafts generally ''should'' be marked for translation? I'm not trying to rhetorically criticize you or anything with this question (I've tried and failed to reword it to not come off as such), I'm genuinely curious. Thanks, [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 04:11, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :I do remember very well that drafts should generally not be marked for translation but I think I'm used to seeing a big box saying such at the top of a page whenever that's the case. I should have seen the hatnote and reasoned that it was too early to mark it, but I had a lapse of judgement and did so otherwise. I'm not sure if I can undo, or if I should? What a bad first impression for my first day on the job. I apologize. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:39, 29 May 2026 (UTC) :So, I removed it from translation. For the sake of brevity I will keep the translation markup out of the article until it is finalized. Doing so avoids shoving a big scary banner about editing translation source text in editors' faces as well. The old pages lay dormant at [[:Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration/en]], FuzzyBot will come and repopulate them once the policy pages are finalized. Thank you as always for your work. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 04:42, 29 May 2026 (UTC) ::Thank you, and it's ok! I don't have any opinion on the matter, so I don't care, I had just wanted to know if this was meant to be precedent setting. Thanks, [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:41, 29 May 2026 (UTC) f7ty0aps5q9kterg79900y36vvfus89 0 2780 9174 7253 2026-05-30T09:04:13Z Jsamwrites 874 Correct instance sentence 9174 abstractwiki text/plain { "qid": "Q115305900", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z33068", "Z33068K1": [ "Z1", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z34282", "Z34282K1": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K1" }, "Z34282K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ], "Z33068K2": { "Z1K1": "Z18", "Z18K1": "Z825K2" } } ] } } } t5oqwowicy769xwgbm9mbrjajfjwfhd 4 2947 9047 8189 2026-05-29T13:20:14Z Minorax 556 Marked this version for translation 9047 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> <translate><!--T:1--> '''Abstract Wikipedia Project chat'''</translate><br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;"><translate><!--T:2--> This is where discussions on the project happen.</translate></span> * <translate><!--T:3--> More technical issues should go to: [[<tvar name="1">Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem</tvar>|Report a technical problem]].</translate> * <translate><!--T:4--> For older discussions, see the [[<tvar name="2">Abstract:Project chat/Archives</tvar>|archives]].</translate> </div> c8uiptjsbysh5hgq5ucmzoegku1lp2z 4 2998 9110 8158 2026-05-30T04:33:28Z Theki 2698 9110 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> b8y5c3qc3k49yfzoy6o9lkbk0uvuk31 9111 9110 2026-05-30T04:34:17Z Theki 2698 /* Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved */ 9111 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) 98vcyqe9opaj6adtjso2i2akxqs81cx 9113 9111 2026-05-30T04:35:26Z Theki 2698 /* What to do with Z26955 */ 9113 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) lz4xmu5q3sewrwveswlggox7348vs6p 9115 9113 2026-05-30T04:36:28Z Theki 2698 /* AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? */ 9115 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) kznh48pl8k98xkutmuswn75vr59jw83 9117 9115 2026-05-30T04:37:04Z Theki 2698 /* Help with the news section on main page */ 9117 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) iyq97m2agf3418pijkb67wef1fmfvab 9119 9117 2026-05-30T04:37:46Z Theki 2698 /* Layout guidelines? */ 9119 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) r325ggfg3jziu8sabpzbuddglbw3wjp 9121 9119 2026-05-30T04:39:25Z Theki 2698 9121 wikitext text/x-wiki {{archive subpage|link=Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat}} __TOC__ == Extra spaces between sentences == There should be no spaces between two sentences of Chinese and Japanese. —[[User:内存溢出的猫|内存溢出的猫]] ([[User talk:内存溢出的猫|talk]]) 12:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we plan to handle this. I'll bring it up on the Telegram/IRC. This applies to Korean too, yes? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :Please link to the corresponding Phabricator ticket when it’s raised. (Or I will, when I raise it). I think the technical issue is that the space is inserted between function calls. There may be two, but HTML reduces their appearance to one, which is one too many for certain languages. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:58, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, your sentences should not be individual fragments. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == JSON format == The JSON format for Wikifunctions is described at [[:f:Wikifunctions:Function model]]. Is there such a documentation page for Abstract Wikipedia? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:19, 2 April 2026 (UTC) :I imagine that it would be identical? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, they aren't. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 02:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Oh, I see, you're talking about the underlying text format? That isn't and (from what I've gathered, though {{ping|Jdforrester (WMF)}} didn't respond last time I pinged him) will never be editable by users. The function model where the calls are actually made is identical to Wikifunctions. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I'm not asking whether it's editable. I'm asking whether there is a page that documents what it is. ::::The JSON of the function calls is perhaps the same as Wikifunctions compositions, but there are also other things there, which are not the same as Wikifunctions. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 22:40, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::I'm saying that I'm not sure why you'd ''need'' or ''want'' to understand it if you can't edit it and it doesn't impact the user experience in any way. Is there a specific problem that you are running into? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:28, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::I'm a very curious person. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 01:19, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :This is an example JSON of an Abstract Wikipedia article, with only the [[f:Z801|Echo function]], if you're curious: { "qid": "Q27318", "sections": { "Q8776414": { "index": 0, "fragments": [ "Z89", { "Z1K1": "Z7", "Z7K1": "Z801" } ] } } }. :The base has two key value pairs, "qid" and "sections". "sections" currently only contains one key-value pair as of now, [[d:Q8776414]], aka lead section. "fragments" is where the Wikifunctions compositions are stored. I have no idea what "index" is. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:35, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes, that's what I see. I can make educated guesses about those things, but if possible, I'd prefer to read an official reference documentation page. The one about Wikifunctions is fairly good. The one about Abstracts Wikipedia doesn't seem to exist. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 03:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::I think the reason there's no documentation is that it's merely a curiosity, whereas the mainspace of the wiki is barely functional right now. Perhaps we'll get one later, or whenever/if ever we get the ability to edit it? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:09, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::Just to clarify (?), index is 0! I believe it can only be 0 at present, at least through the user interface, and I imagine [[:phab:T411699|this ticket]] is to allow a non-zero index to be set and modified (so long as it is positive and, in all likelihood, sequential). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 14:00, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :Not yet. I think such a page on Abstract Wikipedia would be for the community to create and maintain. I don’t know how [[:phab:maniphest/graph/411686|these things]] are decided upon, but I don’t see a task that would cover technical documentation of any kind. :The development team will no doubt respond with enthusiasm to any questions from the community on matters of technical detail, but I’d be inclined to let such interactions be led by the needs of on-wiki documentation, rather than a proliferation of Phabricator tasks and Project-chat topics. :Shall we ask once on [[Abstract Wikipedia talk:Frequently Asked Questions]] and see which questions should count among the frequently-asked? [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 13:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]], this is quite definitely something that the extension developers are supposed to create and maintain. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :::Not as content on this wiki, was my point. Here, I suggest, we should reference any relevant technical documentation from whichever pages we, as a community, choose to create for such a purpose. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:06, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I don't care very much where it is. I'd just like to read it. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 23:25, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]]: The Wikifunctions function model is documented (alongside its two JSON forms) because we anticipate people would (and should) build tools using it directly. Conversely, the vague expectation ("plan" would be too strong at this point) for Abstract Wikipedia, on the other hand, is that we'll provide APIs to interact with the content, but its serialisation will change over time as features are added to better support the Abstract Wikipedia community's wishes. :For a concrete example (''not a commitment!'') of how the serialisation might change, whilst the system kept working as before, we might in the future add a top-level concept for an abstract article's infobox, which would be shown, edited, and stored apart from the rest of the article's sections, and used differently downstream. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 19:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) == community curation of abstract articles of the week/month/etc. == [[wikifunctions:wikifunctions talk:status updates/2026-03-26#Move Status Updates to Abstract Wikipedia?|this thread]] at WF mentions that WMF staff are refraining from content decisions at Abstract Wikipedia; so I thought that it might be a good idea to figure out if and how there will be editathons here focussed on a selection of articles. — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:38, 2 April 2026 (UTC) : I would support this. — [[user:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[user talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:29, 3 April 2026 (UTC) : now I notice [[abstract:featured article]] in the same category as the project chat, so there's a location for a related concept already! (coming at it the other direction: recognizing already good articles versus barnraising that quality) — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:48, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::I think it will be quite a while before we can support a “good” article, let a “featured” one. At this stage, I’d settle for “technically interesting”, to include “of archaeological interest” (like the first use of a particular function or function-call pattern). [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 08:51, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::one goal could be to make stubs and grow them for the basic concepts underlying Abstract Wikipedia, in an attempt to self-document. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 02:45, 7 April 2026 (UTC) == Bot request == {{Tracked|T421151}} Can someone smarter than me please create a bot that connects local items to Wikidata equivalents? Right now, we are growing and there are [[Special:UnconnectedPages|hundreds of unconnected pages]] here that are just 1:1 main namespace entries that have identical names at [[:d:]]. I have connected several of these, but this seems like a very inefficient and silly thing to do manually. Can someone help here by making a bot that checks [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] regularly or even [[Special:NewPages]] and connects pages? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 06:17, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :This doesn't sound like something that should be a bot, but like something more automatic and built-in. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 11:27, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: Would a bot be a good idea in the interim period before that can be added to the software? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 14:31, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please. Granted, Amir, doing it automatically would be nice, but that feature doesn't exist. Until then, a bot would be very helpful and seems like it would be very difficult to cause problems. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 14:57, 3 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]] and [[User:Koavf|Koavf]]: I've written some code for this purpose [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1|here]]. <code>Retrospective.py</code> is meant to be run once, and would connect all existing pages (once the trial run is over). <code>Prospective.py</code> would run once daily and connect any pages that have been created since the previous day. That is, until the Phabricator ticket is resolved, obviously. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 21:42, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :::::Boss. I'm so glad that you're smarter than me. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 03:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} You might want to use <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>{ 'action': 'query', 'list': 'querypage', 'qppage': 'UnconnectedPages' }</syntaxhighlight> instead. That way, you won't have to maintain two scripts. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 03:58, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: This is [[gitlab:toolforge-repos/jjpmaster-bot-wd-t1/-/commit/415688aa6f9e1dcbafa21a8b3249899c07f298e9|done]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:01, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} One more problem: You seem to be linking non-mainspace pages as well. Don't forget to check <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight>. Also, why <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>if(i > 2): break</syntaxhighlight>? [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:27, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: The <code>if not qid.startswith("Q")</code> bit was supposed to address the namespace problem. The break statement is for the trial of the bot. The integer in the if statement will change once the request is made. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 17:04, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} [[Special:UnconnectedPages]] results are ordered by namespace, so checking for <syntaxhighlight lang="python" inline>page['ns']</syntaxhighlight> will also help prevent unnecessary iterations. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 19:54, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Amire80|Amire80]], [[User:Koavf|Koavf]], and [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh]]: Is a Wikidata BRFA in order at this time? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 05:03, 4 April 2026 (UTC) ::::{{ping|JJPMaster}} Go ahead, please. [[User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh|<span class="skin-invert" style="color:black;font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:110%;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh</span>]] 05:25, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :::::See [[d:Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/JJPMaster (bot)]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:00, 4 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #242 is out: Request for Discussion: Syntactic tables == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-02|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we introduce a proposal for Natural Language Generation, we introduce a page for function suggestions from Abstract Wikipedia, we inform you that there will be a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 13:37, 3 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Way to specify population == Hi! I was wondering if there was a function to specify the population of a place, possibly resembling the following: :N X live in Y. N would be the population size, X would be what comprises the population (e.g., humans, frogs, etc.), and Y would be the location. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 15:43, 3 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe we do. Thinking about it now, we should probably have a page where users can request linguistic functions in a more viable format than [[f:WF:Suggest a function]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:39, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == The problem of when "X is a Y" and Y is a phrase == Consider [[Q486972]], whose second sentence is supposed to be "A human settlement is a populated place," generated using the "Article-ful instantiating fragment" function. However, it fails, because the implementation [[f:Z23414|Z23414]] inherently checks for a lexeme linked to the superclass ("[[D:Q123964505|populated place]]"). However, since "populated place" is a phrase whose meaning is reducible to the sum of its parts, there is no lexeme for it. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to say "An X is a Y" where Y is a non-idiomatic phrase. Additionally, languages with grammatical gender are rendered particularly problematic. Consider [[Q6636]]. The first sentence of this article renders perfectly fine in English: "Homosexuality is a sexual orientation." However, it does not render at all in Spanish. That's because that language's NLG functions use lexicographic data to determine the gender of the phrase "sexual orientation." As there are no such data available for that phrase, it errors out. I did think about using [[f:Z29743|Z29743]] (description of class with adjective and superclass) instead, but that didn't work, since there's no item linked to the adjective "sexual"! Any ideas for how to avoid this? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 00:21, 4 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd the co-operation of Wikidata contributors here, I think. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:37, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I made a desktop app that helps with editing == [[file:Abstract Wikipedia Editor v4.1.0.png|thumb|alt=screenshot|now there's a screenshot available]] I made a desktop app that helps with creating and editing Abstract Wikipedia pages. It pulls data from wikidata to form templates that it makes into wikitext, and it can round-trip articles into and from the wikitext. Here it is [[User:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor]]. I hope that it helps with editing. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 00:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : I've created [[Abstract Wikipedia:Tools]] for tracking these things. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:44, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] But the main namespace is not for wikitext. Are you publishing this content there anyway? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 15:05, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: It's not actual wikitext. It's a custom template syntax that's kind of like wikitext, which gets converted into abstract content when you press "Push to Abstract Wikipedia." [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 16:57, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:Ainali|Ainali]]@[[User:JJPMaster|JJPMaster]] if you have syntax suggestions I am interested. I was in a rush with implementing this, and I want to in the future implement aliases for wikifunctions and possibly items, so that you can type things out yourself. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: Ah, I see. IT was just the announcement that was ambiguous then. <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 20:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC) : FYI anything made by a clanker AI robot is not "made by you." Thank you for your attention to this matter. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:18, 7 April 2026 (UTC) :: Who, then? [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:16, 7 April 2026 (UTC) ::: The clanker AI robot. [[User:Babelball|Babelball]] ([[User talk:Babelball|talk]]) 16:42, 8 April 2026 (UTC) :::: I edited the Wikidata page for the tool to mention Claude. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:35, 8 April 2026 (UTC) ::::: FYI that LLM-generated code is not eligible for copyright, and therefore the MIT license by extension. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:59, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::: I think the statements that Wikidata could make are limited by what references can be found. [https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/customizing-your-repository/licensing-a-repository This help page] makes it sound as if there are limited options for expressing a repo's licensing situation, so I am not surprised that MIT should be the blanket release, even if strictly speaking some of the code contained within is ineligible for copyright, or infringes on an existing copyright (which would need to be demonstrated). But I suppose [https://cpomagazine.com/cyber-security/taking-stock-of-the-anthropic-source-code-leak-ai-agent-compromise-signals-security-issues-claude-copies-ahead-of-massive-ipo turnabout] is fair play? — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:53, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::: @[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] I like the idea of the wikidata content being restricted based on sources provided. I will try to implement something like this in the next release. Any ideas of which particular statements are useful and should be imported more readily? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:28, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::: I meant in [[d:Q138963952|the Wikidata item]] ''for'' AWE, but in general I think our articles should incorporate references early on, since even abstract content needs justification. [[d:help:sources#Language-independent general principles|This help page]] may be handy; '[[d:property:P3680|statement supported by]]' could be useful for linking to biographical articles in the manner "According to [source], [claim]" (obviously adjusted to the relevant language structures in each language for saying such things). — [[user:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[user talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 20:42, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] oh that makes sense. But as for the wikidata sources, actually providing the sources is something that is trivially easy as far as accessing wikidata is concerned, but I am not sure how to give sources for claims in wikilambdas. Do you know how? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:44, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't. Currently the distinction between content and format is unclear to me. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 21:48, 9 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::@[[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] what do you mean by content vs format? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 21:52, 9 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::In the most 'abstract' sense, an article would have as irreducible parts semantic content only (from Wikidata), with syntax handled by the group of functions responsible for getting things looking right in a given target language. In practice, the overall structuring of the article largely defines or limits the syntactic structures of language produced. This is sensible for an encyclopedia which has a fairly conventional or constrained sort of prose. Of course, a web encyclopedia needs more than prose. Hence the functions for making links and formatting text (right now directly to HTML, bypassing wikitext). Although this is a MediaWiki installation, no article has had media content added to it yet, since the formatting functions that would enable that aren't in place. So I would say that content and formatting are entangled, currently. A reference could be considered either: the text that provides the sourcing of a statement, or the formatting that enables this semantic content to read as a reference, perhaps inline or as a footnote, end note, or marginal note. [[f:WF:type proposals#Representing abstract content]] has a couple RfCs about this. — [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 01:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::Yeah I am very confused about what the intention of Abstract Wikipedia is and how much it lines up with the reality. I had thought that the articles would be mostly directly generated from wikidata. :::::::::::::Only particular direction I see clearly is that I think we need articles on all of these pages [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]] since they will likely bring a lot of traffic to the site and since they have a lot of information, people will have a lot of reason to come to this site and come up with new ways of expressing things on the pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:06, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I am however really liking section headers like the one here [[Q12539]] and I am going to include them in the next release [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes I think that adding sections to articles might be really the first part of the journey towards actually having somewhat readable articles. Although a lot of this is dependent on the article text actually rendering at all [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yeah I think I am getting the hang of things. Adding sections and paragraph breaks to the new versions. Denoted by ::::::::::::::::<nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> ::::::::::::::::for a paragraph break ::::::::::::::::and ::::::::::::::::==QID== ::::::::::::::::for a subheading ::::::::::::::::All content is now generated within paragraphs, and the <nowiki>{{p}}</nowiki> splits the paragraphs up. Feeglgeef mentioned that the paragraphs are a significant accessibility feature, and the paragraphs are also easier to insert with the methods of the app. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I am also implementing "it" to avoid repeating the name of the article constantly, and I am implementing citation preservation on certain things.Meanwhile also trying to fix the accessibility issue that was criticized. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 05:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::New release is out [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 07:42, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::I would suggest not to use [[d:Q6091500]] at the moment. In some languages, there might be multiple words for different uses of "it". If you are editing with only the English logic, it won't help build a multilingual wiki. [[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] ([[User talk:Sun8908|talk]]) 17:42, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@[[User:Sun8908|Sun8908]] fair. I had thought it would be dropped in pro-drop languages but I do not think that was a reasonable assumption. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:47, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I asked at the Monday meeting. Not sure if anything is being done about it though. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:15, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :Nice work. I for one don't care how you made the tool, the important part to me is how it works and if it helps me/us edit AW. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:23, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :[[File:AWE split paragraphs.png|thumb|Article on wheat]] {{ping|Immanuelle}} your tool is back at it again! I've asked you to test it before you use it to create a bunch of articles twice now. You, evidently, haven't listened! I understand you're probably acting in good faith, but you ''have'' to test your tool before you unleash it on the wiki. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:38, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::No, I did listen. I am not sure what your objection is, but this looks like intended behaviour. I was asked to make every single sentence into its own paragraph to make it easier to debug maintaining accessibility. Previous the tool grouped many sentences into a single paragraph. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 02:49, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: You were asked to make each actual paragraph into a call of the "paragraph" function. You were not asked to make every individual sentence a paragraph. That is probably even less accessible than what we started with. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 03:06, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::The content itself needs refining. As it is, most articles have no value-added over the Wikidata triples plus labels; basically just slight readability improvements. We require complex structures sooner rather than later. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 03:08, 18 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I thought that the rule was that we put every single sentence into a paragraph of its own because text readers need a paragraph to read the text. We cannot debug things if there are multiple sentences within a paragraph, because these sentences go up to the top and make it so that the paragraph itself fails to render. ::::So this was specifically an accessibility concern for people who are visually impaired, with an accepted reduction in readability for people with regular vision so that it can also be debugged. ::::Like this: ::::"What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are." [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::We need to import the quote template [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:12, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :Does anybody want any other changes to be made to this tool? Things are still relatively up in the air about what an optimum article even is, and as a result it kind of makes us limited in what we can do with it. I'm changing the way that the paragraphs work to fit what I now perceive as the consensus. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:11, 18 April 2026 (UTC) : I tried to run it on macOS 14.5, but it errored out when I clicked "Pull from Wikidata." It appears that this was because you hardcoded your Python path. <code>Error: Error invoking remote method 'generate-wikitext': Error: spawn C:/Users/Immanuelle/AppData/Local/Programs/Python/Python313/python.exe ENOENT</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:56, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: For the record, the solution is to go into <code>src/main.ts</code> and change the Python path to something other than <code>C:/Users/Immanuelle/...</code> — [[user:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[user talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[special:contribs/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 12:05, 6 April 2026 (UTC) : TYSM!! I did have to debug the code a little first to get it working, but this will be so helpful for me. — [[user:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[user talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[special:contribs/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 11:59, 6 April 2026 (UTC) :: I am so sorry and I fixed it so the new release should avoid that problem in the future. — [[user:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[user talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 6 April 2026 (UTC) ::: @[[User:ChaoticVermillion|ChaoticVermillion]] btw there is an update that has a lot more functions and I am not sure if you are using it. The new one allows you to undo edits or restore revisions. Something that I cannot figure out how to do in regular Abstract Wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:55, 8 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikiprojects == Are there wiki projects here? Can I just make some in this namespace? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:12, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't see why not. It's a wiki, after all :). Please just don't flood the talkspace with templates that don't exist. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:51, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::I've created a first Wikiproject ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Core articles]]) and an explainer page ([[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject]]). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:11, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I made this one too [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:39, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} Are WikiProjects for specific languages OK? Responsibility seems to be stretched between maintaining Wikidata labels and lexemes alongside creating and maintaining functions on Wikifunctions, so I'm unsure if Abstract Wikipedia would be considered a good place to coordinate these things. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:56, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :::There's no community consensus for or against, so, since this is a wiki, I don't see any reason why anyone would stop you :). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:46, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #243 is out: Community proposals for capturing meaning == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-10|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we report on three community proposals on syntactic approaches, we introduce a new Type (Complex numbers), we report on current hiccups on Abstract Wikipedia, we share more information about a presentation about Abstract Wikipedia at WikiCon Australia, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next '''Volunteers' Corner''' will be held on '''[https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1776101400 April 13, at 17:30 UTC]''' ([https://meet.google.com/xuy-njxh-rkw link to the meeting]). Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 15:35, 10 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == Numerous errors have been introduced, possibly due to the "AWE" tool == As [[User:Fram|Fram]] has [[w:Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#c-Fram-20260410163000-Fram-20260408131600|pointed out]] over on the English Wikipedia in his usual style, [[User:Immanuelle]] has been breaking pages such as [[Q711]] with edits such as [[Special:Diff/4383]]. I was able to [[Special:Diff/4415|fix this]] by changing "it" to Wikidata item reference in "defining role sentence". @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]]: Judging by your edit history, you have introduced this error to a lot of pages. Before continuing with your work to make the rest of the articles from your list, [[d:Wikidata:List of articles that Abstract Wikipedia should have]], I kindly ask you to fix the pages you've already made. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 17:16, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :This is, of course, what happens when you use a slop-machine to write code. See existing discussion on [[User talk:Immanuelle/Abstract Wikipedia Editor#Creates inaccessible content]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] I thought you wanted everything nested in the paragraph things. That's why I did that, following your request that you linked to. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::I know. In the future, can you test whatever the slop-machine gives you ''on-wiki'' to ensure you don't mass-vandalize it again? Thank you! [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] the problem I faced is that I do not know how to actually understand error messages on this wiki. When every page fails to render, it is very difficult to know if I introduced an error, or the program introduced an error. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:18, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] I guess my question for you would be how did you figure out that this was an error on the page? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:19, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::That's a fair question. The way things are now you can't be sure if the error is because of technical issues with the site or a bad page. In this case it was rather easy though. The "dependency" parameter of [[f:Z28016]] expects a reference to a Wikidata item but you passed the string "it" to it. That is an obvious mistake so it was easy to tell that it's not a random error. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 19:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::That makes sense. I will try to be a lot more careful with error detection in the future. Hopefully the technical issues with the site are fixed and I can see the content issues more soon [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:08, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::I suggest that “vandalize” is an inappropriate choice of word in this case. Whatever your feelings about the quality of the code or the care with which it is being deployed, I think you could manage to assume good faith on the part of a fellow contributor. Thank you. ::::At a technical level, there is an issue with simply bracketing multiple calls together to yield a paragraph, since a failure in any one call will lead to the loss of the whole paragraph. In [[:f:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-03-26]], the advice given was: ::::::“By the way, here’s one tip: currently, caching for Abstract Wikipedia happens on the level of the “fragment”. This means that by putting several sentences into a single paragraph, the paragraph as a whole is being run, may cause time-outs, and will be cached. Instead, if, for now, you put one sentence into each fragment, caching and evaluation can be more spread out and should allow for more content.” ::::[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 19:00, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::@[[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] would you suggest removing the paragraph by default behavior in the editor over this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:50, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::What we might try is wrapping each sentence as a paragraph, with occasional pairing of closely related sentences. That keeps failure isolated while preserving at least some natural flow. ::::::We could consider also implementing a “sentence” or “content unit” function that simply calls “paragraph”, so we can later tell where the intended paragraphs are. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 21:23, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This is not accessible for users with screen-readers, and thus not a viable work-around. Each paragraph must be in a paragraph tag. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:31, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::It’s sub-optimal, I agree, but every unit of meaning would be wrapped in p tags, which is more accessible than a series of bare fragments or failed function calls. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::If you do need to make inaccessible articles, please at least give them a category on the talk page. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:21, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::We’d need to agree an accessibility standard first, but I’m not planning on creating any articles until there are suitable functions available. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I agree. Accessibility standards need to be established and not just assumed. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::::I definitely do agree that we need accessibility standards, but this isn't really a nice-to-have that you debate about but rather the floor. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 00:27, 12 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::::I took this thread as consensus that we need to have every sentence as its own paragraph. Is that incorrect? Do people want me to change it back to one paragraph per paragraph break? I removed that one because it covered up errors. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :::::When someone "vandalizes" it is not necessarily intentional, see [[wikt:vandalise]]. I do understand that Immanuelle has good faith, but at the same time, the "deployment" caused tens of articles to be broken, and furthermore I don't suspect something this bad would have slipped through had a human carefully reviewed the code. When a contributor deploys a semi-automated tool and uses it to make edits at the rate {{ping|Immanuelle}} was at this rate, you are morally obligated to test it. This wasn't the first time the slop-machine that they used caused them to mess up tens of articles, and if Immanuelle doesn't exercise extreme care in the future, I don't suspect it will be the last. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 22:25, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::It was a silent error that was only discovered by chance. What kind of testing would you have done to avoid this? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:37, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]": On Wikipedia, "[[:en:WP:VAND|Vandalism]]" is a technical term that means "editing (or other behavior) '''''deliberately''' intended to [[:en:Wikipedia:DE|obstruct or defeat]] the [[:en:Wikipedia:Five_pillars|project's purpose]]''". Accidental disruptive editing is not considered vandalism. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 22:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] on the topic of this glitch. I think I have removed it from all pages that had it. Please tell me if there are more that you see. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:29, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks for cleaning up :) [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:29, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::This isn't the English Wikipedia, or even a wikipedia at all, despite the domain. Unless a defined technical term related to Wikifunctions I'd consider words to have their natural language meaning. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 01:28, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::@[[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]]: Last time I checked, this was the Abstract ''Wikipedia''. But in any case, this is the definition provided in [[f:Wikifunctions:Vandalism|Wikifunctions]] as well as [[meta:meta:Vandalism|meta]]. Vandalism has to be deliberate. [[User:Warudo|Warudo]] ([[User talk:Warudo|talk]]) 08:50, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::It's not ''the'' Abstract Wikipedia like ''the'' English Wikipedia, but just Abstract Wikipedia. It isn't a Wikipedia in and of itself (as in, it's not supposed to be viewed by end readers), but rather a tool for Wikipedias. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:33, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::It still has an independent editing community. Just because it draws from Wikidata and Wikifunctions doesn't mean content decisions aren't made here; it necessarily has to have some autonomy just like any language edition. [[User:Arlo Barnes|Arlo Barnes]] ([[User talk:Arlo Barnes|talk]]) 19:18, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::“Deliberately” is also the first word of section 3.3 of our Code of Conduct, linked at the foot of every page. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 17:11, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::::+1 Please assume good faith and keep it civil. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:27, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :@[[User:Warudo|Warudo]] will hold off on page creation [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:43, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :Just a note @[[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]], the project is a Beta version, so, in my opinion, it's not a good idea to flood it with a large number of [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|target=Immanuelle&namespace=0&newOnly=1&limit=250&end=2026-04-10}} article stubs]. Additionally, the natural language functions are still limited.--[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] ([[User talk:Mdktb|talk]]) 18:58, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] okay that is a good point. I think I was confused since I thought that we were more on the trying to get new users stage. I will stick to fixing up my errors and only making pages on things that I have a lot of stuff to say on. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:20, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :::@[[User:Mdktb|Mdktb]] and here is a wikiproject I made and tagged some pages with that is specifically related to developing more natural language [[Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Prose]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 19:27, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::Would you be willing to raise this in the project chat? I'm thinking we are in an experimentation state that will keep improving incrementally just like the first edition of Wikipedia did since January 15, 2001. Just like back then I don't think it's a good idea to arbitrarily limit good faith editing. We probably will have to revisit these articles later as more and better functions become available but that in itself is not a valid argument for refraining from edits. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::Already here ;) [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:05, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::I agree with your stub-flooding comment, I don't think it's particularly useful to have a bunch of articles that say nothing. The concern right now should be testing. I expect that the way in which we write abstract articles will change drastically eventually, so writing hundreds of articles is not only a waste of time but a debt. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:07, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::We can always use [[Special:AncientPages]] to find them later on. :::My expectation is that things will change, but we’ll be able to change the articles. They aren’t set in stone. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 03:21, 18 April 2026 (UTC) :The error in question was that "it" ended up getting into the jsons as a string instead of the id for "it". This occurred due to an error with the program with function aliasing, functions and items can have aliases that are used to be human readable, and replaced with their codes during insertion. But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. :My guess is that basically they do not have an api since they have no server side validation and were relying on solely client side, and did not anticipate someone building such a tool that accidentally bypassed client side validation through a cache injection which was motivated by UX purposes :I plan on attending the Monday volunteer meeting and asking about this issue. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:45, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::> But apparently when you try to insert a nonexistent alias then it just inserts the text and there is no server side validation at all of edits. ::This sounds like a bug. Would you be willing to create a ticket in phab with details? [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:38, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :::The team has already declined (or indicated that they had no plans) to do validation in this form, so I don't think a new ticket would be ideal. Either way, this shouldn't affect anyone besides those using a headless browser (or anyone using good, human-reviewed code and a headless browser), so I don't think it would be a priority anyway. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:19, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::::Not sure what you are talking about. At the meeting they did not seem to be opposed to doing server side validation. They just said that they had a bit of concerns about infrastructure that was stopping it as an immediate thing. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 20:14, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::The volunteer's corner? I unfortunately missed that, but it was more than a year ago that I believe they decided not to pursue it, so you're probably right. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:46, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :So I have resolved this issue, as I have resolved most of the issues that people brought up. The whole paragraph debate is something I am returning to the older version of. Does anybody want other changes to the way that it makes articles? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 18:09, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Sandbox page == The previous discussion about bot-created pages does raise a question: is it possible to have sandbox pages here? As far as I can tell, one can only create pages in the main namespace, and it has to be one page per Wikidata item. So there's no good place to experiment. Or am I missing something? The only other thing I can think of is to write the whole abstract article (or a part of it) as a function with a composition implementation on Wikifunctions and then to call it from a user-space sandbox page here. That, however, doesn't actually seem to work: [[User:Amire80/sandbox|I've just tried to call a function from my user space]], and I just see "⏳ Function is being called…". That is possibly a bug that can be fixed (maybe [https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T422299 T422299]?), but even if it's fixed, it doesn't look like the best user experience. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:48, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :[[phab:T421417]] [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:52, 10 April 2026 (UTC) ::For now [[Q3938]] can be used for test edits . [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 02:06, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :We have [[Q138864867]]. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 23:30, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == I propose Q10693 for featured article == I think [[Q10693]] is the best article here. Can I propose it for [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 22:24, 10 April 2026 (UTC) :We'd to come to a consensus on criteria first before we nominate anything. Anyway, the talk page of [[Abstract Wikipedia:Featured article]] would be a better place to decide this, not ''everything'' belongs on the project chat. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 02:36, 11 April 2026 (UTC) == REST API for editing? == Hi, does anyone know if there is a ticket in phab for a public API endpoint that allows editing of AW content? It would be very useful to improve tooling and content. [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 20:41, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't believe so. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 21:03, 11 April 2026 (UTC) :I do not know why there isn't a REST API, but I had to [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat#I made a desktop app that helps with editing|specifically work around it with my editing tool]]. It will be very nice in the future to have a REST API. :I think that right now there isn't actually any server-side verification of whether an article is well-structured, and that might be the reason why there isn't a REST API yet. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 23:46, 11 April 2026 (UTC) ::What rest api are you talking about? Checkout [[Special:RestSandbox]]. [[User:Tanbiruzzaman|Tanbiruzzaman]] ([[User talk:Tanbiruzzaman|talk]]) 16:50, 12 April 2026 (UTC) :I would like to proudly announce that it can be done. See [[Special:Diff/6102]]. Here was my request: :<syntaxhighlight lang="json">{ "source": "{\"qid\":\"Q100000\",\"sections\":{\"Q8776414\":{\"index\":0,\"fragments\":[\"Z89\"]}}}", "title": "Q100000", "comment": "Hello from MediaWiki REST API", "content_model": "abstractwiki", "token": "[token]" } </syntaxhighlight> [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 04:43, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Spaces between sentences == In abstract articles with two sentences or more, I usually see two spaces between the sentences. Why two? I usually write one space, and that's probably what most people do in English. I know that some people write two; I don't like it myself, but this practice does exist. But here, it raises a few more nuanced questions: # Where is it actually defined that there are supposed to be ''any'' spaces between the sentences? I might be wrong, but it probably comes from the extension code and not from the functions. # Can this be customized per language? I don't know all the rules for all the languages, but I strongly suspect that some languages use spaces between sentences differently, and no default is good for all the languages. I'd especially check if it's good for Thai, Burmese, Japanese, and Chinese. # When I examine the HTML code of the rendered sentences, each of them is a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>. It's a bit odd—I'd expect <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code> there. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 21:07, 14 April 2026 (UTC) :Can you give an example article, please? [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:01, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::[[Q833]], [[Q11361384]], and probably every other abstract article whose rendered English text has more than sentence. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 14:34, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::No, not every single one (see [[Q333]]), but most of them. This has happened because Denny promoted separating sentences into individual fragments and Immanuel used an AI slop-machine to create an editing tool. Essentially, they're being treated as separate elements (like how one paragraph is different from a section heading), so the UI adds a space. This, of course, should not be done, because it breaks screen-readers and looks weird, but apparently everyone is just OK with it. Like a thousand articles have been created by the afforementioned slop-generated tool (because the person who oversaw the bot that created it seems to care more about quantity than quality), whereas I've only created three myself (because I care more about quality and shaping the direction of the wiki in preparation for when abstract content becomes actually viable). [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:02, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::If I understand correctly, [[Q333]] has one fragment, which is one function call, which in turn creates two sentences and joins them using a hardcoded space. If each sentence was created using a separate fragment, they would probably appear with two spaces in practice. Neither option is very good. ::::The mass creation of abstract articles using that tool is probably not really related to this. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 15:52, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::No, one of them is objectively wrong and one of them is correct. You're not ''supposed'' to split two sentences into two fragments. That's the point. The mass creation of articles using that tool ''is'' related, because it's responsible for the proliferation of articles that follow the wrong one. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:36, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::Why not split sentences into fragments? I can easily imagine some functions that produce several sentences, but it's not universal. ::::::And why is it ''correct'' to join sentences using a hardcoded space? Joining sentences shouldn't be done using a hardcoded space, but with a generic "join sentences" function, which will be one space for many languages, but probably not for all of them. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 17:55, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::Yes, not having to hardcode is the eventual goal. Splitting sentences into fragments is bad because it adds extra spacing (this is a feature, and a good one!), because it's bad for screen-readers, and because it would be impossible to distinguish between paragraphs, the article would just be a collection of sentences. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:03, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::I still don't understand why splitting into fragments is bad. What is good about extra spacing? It looks like a bad feature, not a good one. It sounds like a rendering and presentation issue, not a logical issue. Fragments can be inline, and the inline ones should be <code><nowiki><span></nowiki></code>s, not <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code>s. And there should also be an option for <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> fragments. And maybe some others. Forcing every fragment to be a <code><nowiki><div></nowiki></code> sounds like a bad feature. [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 18:46, 15 April 2026 (UTC) :::::::::Again, the spacing is good because the correct reason to split is to create two separate paragraphs. Even if the spacing ''was'' removed, it would still not work for screen-readers, and blocking out blind people when the mission is to spread knowledge to neglected languages is incredibly ironic. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to communicate this to you. It's like asking "why is magma so hot! I want to drink magma instead of water, but it's too hot and not refreshing!" [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 19:07, 15 April 2026 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe I understand what a "fragment" is supposed to be differently. Where is defined what is it supposed to be? [[User:Amire80|Amir E. Aharoni]] ([[User talk:Amire80|talk]]) 20:22, 15 April 2026 (UTC) == Archiving discussions on this page? == We're soon coming up to having a month old messages here, and considering the current length of it and size of the community, perhaps 30 days is a good limit for archiving them. Does anyone know how to get an archive bot running here? <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 06:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:So9q|So9q]] ([[User talk:So9q|talk]]) 09:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:41, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1. I think SpBot does archiving on Wikifunctions. Maybe it could be brought here as well? [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 14:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :+1 [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:24, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing the q template == I really want the <nowiki>{{q}}</nowiki> template here imported from wikidata. It is very helpful with qids. Linking to here instead of wikidata. Might be able to be expanded for lexemes and wikifunctions too. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:26, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I've copied it and its dependencies from Wikifunctions: see {{Q|1}} It may need some tweaking to work well here, because we also use QIDs. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:51, 17 April 2026 (UTC) ::Great! I think we need [[Template:Quote]] too [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 04:13, 18 April 2026 (UTC) == Caching issues (hopefully) fixed == Hey all, I know the caching issues have been a real pain for you. I've just now deployed what (I hope) is a fix that works for calls on Wikifunctions.org, fragments here, and embedded Wikifunctions calls. See for example [https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q1344227 view/en/Q1344227] which should load fragments near-immediately for you (not need a retry or time out). You'll also see e.g. that https://test.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikifunctions now has "stable" results, not just endless "please wait" comments. That said, please tell me where I'm wrong and you're having issues! Much better to hear now than assume it's fixed and start all over again tomorrow. I appreciate your feedback and patience over this; it has been very generous of you all. Our next work in this area is to make the cache much more scalable and resilient over time, so it's faster and more reliable for you, and cheaper for us to support. Thank you again. [[User:Jdforrester (WMF)|Jdforrester (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Jdforrester (WMF)|talk]]) 14:47, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Thank you (and the rest of the team) for your efforts for this new wiki! We really appreciate it. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 14:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Wow this is great! Now we can do a lot more verification on whether created pages are working well! Gotta look over a bunch of pages. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:20, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::Yes I tried to fix up a bunch of pages. Many of them actually render properly now. But I did need to change quite a few [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 17:36, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :::Yes, please give your attention to the quality of pages you've already created rather than expanding the quantity. For example, on [[Q153]] I notice that you used Z28016 a lot, but that "defining" should only be used when it is the only instance of that class in that location (which works fine for a capital city), but not e.g. for hydrogen being "the" part of ethanol. --[[User:99of9|99of9]] ([[User talk:99of9|talk]]) 04:43, 17 April 2026 (UTC) == Importing templates from wikipedias == I think it would be a good idea to set something up so that templates from wikipedia can be represented as wikifunctions. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 14:59, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Already {{done}} on WF, see [[f:WF:MediaWiki parser functions]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:08, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Idea for the project chat == I've been thinking of some ideas that we could implement related to the project chat. I'm not saying I endorse anything, just throwing out an idea. There's been a ''lot'' of activity on here, I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent thing or if it's just because the wiki just started. If it maintains its activity, we might want to divide it up like the English Wikipedia does, perhaps into "Proposals", "Technical and Wikifunctions", and "Miscellaneous." [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 15:19, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :Simple english wikipedia has almost all discussion happen on its Project chat. I think we should only add nerw things once we really need more chats. Having everything here makes it easier for people to keep up with the news of abstract wikipedia. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:31, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::The place to keep up with news for "abstract [sic] wikipedia [sic]" is the newsletter. I think that separating might actually make it easier to follow the specific discussion that you want, as you can choose which of the three to subscribe to. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 17:58, 16 April 2026 (UTC) ::We should at least have a talk page archiving bot, like [[:en:User:lowercase sigmabot III]]. [[User:EatingCarBatteries|EatingCarBatteries]] ([[User talk:EatingCarBatteries|talk]]) 20:18, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == What to do with Z26955 == There are a lot of articles with [[:f:Z26955|Z26955]] in them, since it has this obvious warning on it, what should we do with existing articles that have it? Just remove it on sight? [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 15:33, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :We should only improve articles by fixing the problems, not by removing them. If you can replace a function by a better one, that’s great. Otherwise, please leave it for now so that we can see what needs fixing. [[User:GrounderUK|GrounderUK]] ([[User talk:GrounderUK|talk]]) 23:04, 16 April 2026 (UTC) == Representing "part of" == How do I represent that something is part of another thing? I used to use the spo sentence without understanding that it did not work. [[User:Immanuelle|Immanuelle]] ([[User talk:Immanuelle|talk]]) 16:30, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :I think [[f:Z32982]] can be used, with the role as [[d:Q1310239]]. [[User:ChaoticVermillion|<span style="color: orangered">Chaotic</span><span style="color: crimson">Vermillion</span>]] ([[User talk:ChaoticVermillion|converse]], [[Special:Contributions/ChaoticVermillion|contribs]]) 18:55, 16 April 2026 (UTC) :See Q307, perhaps :https://abstract.wikipedia.org/view/en/Q307 :Middle finger of Galileo's right hand is the part of of Galileo Galilei. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 03:07, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #244 is out: Milestones; Some major issues hopefully resolved == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-16|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we celebrate 4000 functions on Wikifunctions and 1000 abstract articles on Abstract Wikipedia, we announce that we should have fixed some major issues with the websites, we inform you on our latest outreach activities, and we take a look at the latest software developments. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:22, 17 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> == AceWiki: Abstract Wikipedia before Abstract Wikipedia? == For those of you not in the know, ACE is [[w:Attempto Controlled English|Attempto Controlled English]]. This is a special subset of English that, unlike regular English, is entirely grammatically unambiguous and is machine-readable. For example, the sentence "Every person has a cat" is ACE, as a computer could easily parse that into a logical structure of the form "for any person P, P has a cat." Well, I found a semantic wiki software called AceWiki, whose articles are written entirely in Attempto Controlled English (see [https://acewiki.petapico.org/acewikigeo/ AceWikiGEO]). The sentence structures seen in AceWiki articles (while I can't link directly to any article, the article on the United States of America, which can be found in the Index in the sidebar, is a good example) are quite similar to those in our existing abstract articles. Using a tool called [https://github.com/Attempto/ACE-in-GF ACE-in-GF], ACE text could be translated into any language. I've been thinking about the idea of a tool that allows an editor to write Attempto Controlled English text, and have that text turned into an abstract article. As an example: '''ACE''' -- "Every antelope is a mammal." &rarr; '''Abstract content''' -- [[f:Z26627|Classifying a class of nouns (Z26627)]]: [[d:Q25894|antelope (Q25894)]], [[d:Q7377|mammal (Q7377)]] This tool would not be optimized for mass article creation, since it would not include an option to generate articles directly from Wikidata, but I think it could be interesting to see how being able to write abstract articles in natural language might lower the barrier to contributing to this project. Thoughts? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 01:59, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm not sure how we'd actually do the conversion step. If you'd be willing to attempt to make a prototype I'd love to look at it, but I'm skeptical. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:12, 21 April 2026 (UTC) == Help with the news section on main page == Hi all, I would like to have some help in importing [[:f:Template:Main page/News]] here and inserting it in the main page's module. Can someone help me to do it? [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 10:26, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I believe [[Template:Main page/News]] is already set up and visible on the main page, unless you mean importing the history of the WF template over. [[User: Tenshi Hinanawi|Tenshi!]] ([[User talk: Tenshi Hinanawi|Talk page]]) 11:12, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::Ah, that's great, thanks! [[User:Sannita (WMF)|Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 14:53, 20 April 2026 (UTC) == Layout guidelines? == One thing I'm noticing is that there are a ''lot'' of ways to do the same thing. I'd like to know which is preferred in the simple case of making single-sentence articles that just say what they are. Take [[Q503]] for example. If you look at the edit history of the article, you'll see it went through a few changes: * Initially, it was a [[f:Z14396|''string of monolingual text'']] call wrapped inside of a [[f:Z27868|''string to HTML fragment'']] call. The innermost function got the monolingual text returned from [[f:Z26095|''subject is kind of'']], converted it to a string, and then to a HTML fragment. * Afterwards the two topmost functions were removed until only the ''subject is kind of'' function call remained, and this was wrapped in a call to [[f:Z29749|''monolingual text as HTML with visible language tag'']]. * Finally the ''subject is kind of'' call was placed into a typed list provided as an argument to the [[f:Z32234|''join text-like objects into HTML fragment'']] call, which in turn was made into a proper paragraph rather than a standalone <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> as it was previously. None of these seem like a particularly bad way to approach things, and I have seem all of them in the wild; the first thing I tried I did so as it was the way the first article I stumbled upon chose to render its text. Since [[Abstract Wikipedia:Useful functions for article composition]] only goes over linguistic functions, and doesn't seem to provide any guidance on ''composition'' functions (i.e. building the HTML contents itself, as you have to do in the plain visual editor online), I thought I'd ask here if there is a preferred way to do things, and if it could perhaps be made clearer on the website if so. It is rather bothersome wanting to build e.g. a wikitable, and needing to peruse the available functions on Wikifunctions instead of having an easily-accessible way to see what is generally recommended for the particular circumstance. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 21:36, 20 April 2026 (UTC) :I'm partial to paragraph(join text-like objects into HTML fragment(your sentences)), as not using a paragraph tag is bad for those who use screen readers, and I designed join text-like objects to reduce function calls and therefore speed up the article processing step. The long-term problem with this method is that Japanese and Chinese both do not have spaces between sentences, so I plan to soon create a function that takes a list of text-like objects and then converts it into a paragraph under the correct style of each language. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 23:51, 20 April 2026 (UTC) ::That sounds good, I have grown more fond of that method as well. What you described would be great to have, I have been adding [[f:Z13128]] references inbetween each sentence to counteract the lack of spacing but something that would do this automatically for English while also obeying the sentence rules of other languages it renders in would be very ideal. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:33, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::{{ping|Feeglgeef}} I noticed [[f:Z33068]]. I decided to hack up an implementation of it that aligns with what you said, I don't know if this is what your original intention for the function was and I apologize if I misconstrued it. At the moment, it just runs the ''join text-like objects'' function I mentioned earlier wrapped in a call to ''paragraph'', but adds spaces if the language is not Japanese or Chinese. I'm not sure if, in this scope, a lack of spaces is the only difference between how certain languages arrange their sentences. This also only accounts for the ZObjects for Chinese and Japanese specifically, I think some sort of switch statement or separate configuration object would be better suited for this—not to mention that there are separate natural language objects for the different scripts of Japanese, so those would have to be blanketed under Japanese when considering the language passed in (which I don't want to chain a bunch of ORs to do at the moment). For now, though, it seems to work fine. I added two different test cases and they both pass, and I have also utilized the function on [[Q241691]]. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 03:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::Ah, thank you for implementing that, it looks good to me. I've created a persistent object for storing the languages that don't use spaces, [[f:Z33984]]. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:47, 23 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikidata problems == Sorry for posting two questions here in a row. I'll try to make this brief. On the bottom of [[Q247237]] is what ''should'' be a list of albums, but on my end it appears as just "''PLUS''" repeated fourteen times. This seems to occur any time I use [[f:Z13464]] on a list of Wikidata item references... is anyone else seeing this? I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong. Related to this, I wonder if I can avoid needing to explicitly state each of these items? I moved the list to a separately-defined object on Wikifunctions to avoid having to constantly transfer it between websites since I don't think the clipboard works cross-site. Ordinarily, if I were trying to get all Autechre studio albums, I would use Wikidata's SPARQL query feature to do this, by finding every entity whose [[wikidata:P31|P31]] is [[wikidata:Q482994|Q482994]] and whose [[wikidata:P50|P50]] is [[wikidata:Q247237|Q247237]]. This doesn't seem to be doable with Wikifunctions, though, or at least I'm not seeing it... so I don't know how I would do this automatically. We are making articles out of functions here, so I think it would be worthwhile if I tried to future-proof the list using this paradigm. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:30, 21 April 2026 (UTC) :On your first question, I've [[f:Z33903|tried to replicate this on WF]] and I cannot, which makes it difficult to solve. :We cannot currently reverse most WD statements, so your use case is not ''currently'' possible, but we are able to access the statements that are ''on'' an item. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 18:10, 21 April 2026 (UTC) ::I'm experiencing the issue again on [[f:Z33997]], it seems. Check the test results of the three-item test, "''programmer''" should not appear twice. I ran into a similar problem earlier in working on the implementation. For the two-item case, using a call to ''[[f:Z13397|get the nth element of a list]]'' on both items (index 1 and 2 respectively) returned the first item twice. I had to use a call to ''[[f:Z811|first element]]'' to fix it. ::Could this be a caching issue, perhaps? That seems likely, because I don't know why else this would be happening. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 16:16, 23 April 2026 (UTC) :::I am considering raising this issue on Phabricator if it hasn't been brought up already, this doesn't seem intentional. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:48, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == What are we called? == If editors of Wikipedia are Wikipedians, editors of Wiktionary are Wiktionarians, editors of Wikivoyage are Wikivoyagers, and editors of Wikiversity are Wikiversitarians, what are we? Abstract Wikipedians? Abstracters? Abstractions? AWians? [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 11:54, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I don't like Abstractions and AWians. Abstracters sounds cool, it could be our "informal" term, while Abstract Wikipedians is our "formal" one. We could also apply it based on context (in the mainspace you're an abstracter, in the projectspace you're an abstract wikipedian), I'm not sure, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 13:12, 24 April 2026 (UTC) :I think an -or ending for 'abstractor' sounds cooler, personally. Abstract Wikipedians is boring but is the most straightforward option. &mdash; [[User:Theki|rae^5e]] &lt;[[User talk:Theki|talk]]&gt; 14:50, 24 April 2026 (UTC) ::I did mean to spell it as "Abstractors." Sorry about the typo. [[User:JJPMaster|JJP]]_{[[User talk:JJPMaster|Mas]]_{[[Special:Contributions/JJPMaster|ter]]}} ([[Q1270787|she]]/[[Q3437264|they]]) 18:55, 24 April 2026 (UTC) == Indexed by Google - deliberate? == https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aabstract.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F Exposing Qid to Google looks like a mistake. Not likely to attract the public. Might adversely affect Wikipedia's Page rank or whatever? [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:20, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :Indexing may already have stopped, after the 7th April - no recent pages found. [[Special:Contributions/&#126;2026-25174-74|&#126;2026-25174-74]] ([[User talk:&#126;2026-25174-74|talk]]) 04:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == I can't edit generated text on pages for some reason? == why is this? Thank you. [[User:BigKrow|BigKrow]] ([[User talk:BigKrow|talk]]) 07:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) :You're not supposed to be able to edit generated text. You can edit the code that makes it, though. [[User:Feeglgeef|Feeglgeef]] ([[User talk:Feeglgeef|talk]]) 16:58, 25 April 2026 (UTC) == Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #245 is out: The Foundation's search for the perfect language == There is [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates/2026-04-25|a new update]] for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it! In this issue, we present an academic paper about Abstract Wikipedia, we discuss our latest Type created, and we take a look at the newest created functions. Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check [[:f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Status updates|our archive]]! Enjoy the reading! -- [[User:Sannita (WMF)|User:Sannita (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Sannita (WMF)|talk]]) 09:54, 25 April 2026 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:Sannita (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikifunctions_%26_Abstract_Wikipedia&oldid=30325620 --> 1p5ulvixspysrx8tkplzk168fb6vqz5 4 2999 9123 8209 2026-05-30T04:45:36Z Theki 2698 use langswitch, maybe pending a better solution 9123 wikitext text/x-wiki <div style="border:var(--border-style-base, 1px solid #A2A9B1);clear:right;float:right;padding:1em;text-align:center;"> <span style="font-weight:bold;">{{LangSwitch|en=Archives|tok=toki majuna}}</span> <ul style="list-style:none;margin-inline:0;"> <li>[[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archives/2026/03|2026/03]]</li> <li>[[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Archives/2026/04|2026/04]]</li> </ul> </div><noinclude> <div style="clear:both;"></div> {{UsesLangSwitch}} </noinclude> dy5vnylyjrgn3mce0clcbpys8dgzbtn 10 3130 9064 9003 2026-05-29T13:58:51Z VIGNERON 163 9064 wikitext text/x-wiki <templatestyles src="Template:Main_page/styles.css" /> <div id="lang_dir" class="mw-content-{{dir|{{#invoke:Caller title|lang|base=Template:Main_page}}}}" dir="{{dir|{{#invoke:Caller title|lang|base=Template:Main_page}}}}"> <div id="mainpage_header" class="mainpage_header"> [[File:Wikipedia-logo.svg|100px|alt=A globe with letters on it]] <h1>Bienvenue sur la Wikipédia abstraite</h1> <p>La Wikipédia abstraite est une encyclopédie [[foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use|sous licence libre]] d'[[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:Introduction|articles abstraits]] que tout le monde peut modifier.</p> <div id="articlecount"><ul><li>[[Special:Statistics|{{formatnum|{{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}}|{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}]] contributeurs actifs</li> <li>[[Special:Statistics|{{formatnum|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}|{{USERLANGUAGE}}}}]] articles abstraits</li></ul></div></div> <div id="audiences" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Wikipedia "W" Rounded Black.svg|20px|middle|link=]]</span>Bienvenue !</h3> <div id="mainpage-welcome" title="Welcome" class="items"> La '''Wikipédia abstraite''' est un projet Wikimédia permettant à chacun de créer et de maintenir collaborativement une collection d'articles indépendants de la langue, basée sur des fonctions de [[:f:|Wikifonctions]] et des données de [[:d:|Wikidata]], afin d'aider les projets Wikimédia à élargir leur base d'articles. </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon chem.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Commencer</h3> <div id="mainpage-start" title="Get started" class="items"> * [[Special:CreateAbstract|Créer un article abstrait]] * [[Abstract:Useful functions for article composition|Fonctions utiles]] * [[Abstract:Community portal|Portail communautaire]] </div> </div> </div> <div id="misc-news" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon ongoingConversation-rtl.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Apprendre et contribuer</h3> <div id=mainpage-help-contribute" title="Support and Contributing" class="items"> ; En apprendre plus à propos de la Wikipédia abstraite * [[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:About|Introduction à la Wikipédia abstraite]] * [[Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia:Frequently Asked Questions|Foire aux questions]] * [[f:Special:MyLanguage/Wikifunctions:Glossary|Glossaire de Wikifonctions]] ; Contribuer dans d'autres domaines * [[m:Special:MyLanguage/Abstract Wikipedia#Participate|Participer en tant que traducteur]] * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Suggested functions|Suggérer une fonction]] ; Obtenir de l'aide * Des questions ? Demandez dans la [[Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat|discussion du projet]] ou sur notre [https://t.me/Wikifunctions|canal IRC/Telegram] ! * [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Signaler un problème technique]] </div> </div> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:Echo (Notifications) megaphone.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Actualités</h3> <div id="mainpage-news" title="News" class="items">{{Main page/News/{{#invoke:IncludeLang|main|page=Template:Main page/News|lang = {{USERLANGUAGE}}}}}}</div> </div> </div> <!-- The section below is not visible in the page view --> <div id="many-examples" class="mainpage_row" style="display:none;"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <h3><span class="header_icon" aria-hidden="true" role="presentation">[[File:OOjs UI icon listBullet-ltr.svg|20px|middle|class=skin-invert|link=]]</span>Articles abstraits de qualité</h3> <div id=mainpage-abstract-articles" title="Abstract articles" class="items"> Nos premiers articles abstraits de qualité arrivent bientôt ! </div> </div> </div> <div id="sister" class="mainpage_row"> <div class="mainpage_box"> <div id="mainpage-sister" title="Sister projects" class="items" style="border-top:unset;"> <div class="mainpage-sister-title"> <div style="width:45px; margin:0 auto; margin-top: -40px;">[[File:Wikimedia-logo.svg|45px|center|link=]]</div> <div class="plainlinks" style="color:var(--color-subtle, #54595d); font-size:120%; text-align:center; padding-top:10px;">La Wikipédia abstraite fait partie de la famille [[foundationsite:|Wikimédia]], une organisation à but non lucratif, multilingue et à contenu sous licence libre.</div> </div> <div class="mainpage-sister-projects"> *[[File:Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[w:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikipedia}}]]</span><br>Encyclopédie</div> *[[File:Wikidata-logo.svg|40x40px|link=d:|alt=]]<div><span>[[d:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikidata}}]]</span><br>Base de connaissances</div> *[[File:Wikifunctions-logo.svg|40x40px|link=w:|alt=]]<div><span>[[f:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikifunctions}}]]</span><br>Bibliothèque de fonctions.</div> *[[File:Commons-logo.svg|40x40px|link=c:|alt=]]<div><span>[[c:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-commons}}]]</span><br>Dépôt de médias</div> *[[File:Wiktionary-logo.svg|40x40px|link=wikt:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikt:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wiktionary}}]]</span><br>Dictionnaire et thésaurus</div> *[[File:Wikibooks-logo.svg|40x40px|link=b:|alt=]]<div><span>[[b:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikibooks}}]]</span><br>Manuels et livres pédagogiques</div> *[[File:Wikiquote-logo.svg|40x40px|link=q:|alt=]]<div><span>[[q:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiquote}}]]</span><br>Recueil de citations</div> *[[File:Wikisource-logo.svg|40x40px|link=s:|alt=]]<div><span>[[s:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikisource}}]]</span><br>Bibliothèque</div> *[[File:Wikiversity logo 2017.svg|40x40px|link=v:|alt=]]<div><span>[[v:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikiversity}}]]</span><br>Ressources pédagogiques</div> *[[File:Wikivoyage-Logo-v3-icon.svg|40x40px|link=voy:|alt=]]<div><span>[[voy:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-wikivoyage}}]]</span><br>Guide de voyage</div> *[[File:Wikispecies-logo.svg|40x40px|link=species:|alt=]]<div><span>[[species:|{{int:Wikibase-otherprojects-species}}]]</span><br>Répertoire des espèces</div> *[[File:Incubator-logo.svg|40x40px|link=incubator:|alt=]]<div><span>[[incubator:|{{int:Project-localized-name-incubatorwiki}}]]</span><br>Nouvelles versions linguistiques</div> *[[File:Wikimedia Community Logo.svg|40x40px|link=m:|alt=]]<div><span>[[m:|{{int:Project-localized-name-metawiki}}]]</span><br>Coordination des projets</div> *[[File:MediaWiki-2020-icon.svg|40x40px|link=mw:|alt=]]<div><span>[[mw:|{{int:Project-localized-name-mediawikiwiki}}]]</span><br>Développement de MediaWiki</div> *[[File:Wikimania.svg|40x40px|link=wikimania:|alt=]]<div><span>[[wikimania:|{{int:Project-localized-name-wikimaniawiki}}]]</span><br>Coordination des événements</div> *[[File:Wikimedia-logo.svg|40x40px|link=outreach:|alt=]]<div><span>[[m:|{{int:Project-localized-name-outreachwiki}}]]</span><br><span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Outreach</span></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="mainPage_row" style="font-size: smaller;"> <languages/> </div> </div> __NOEDITSECTION__ __NOTOC__ <noinclude>[[Category:Templates]]</noinclude> e8p6sflp2tq0cmnqzzqn4unhzybm888 1198 3265 9063 8725 2026-05-29T13:58:50Z VIGNERON 163 9063 wikitext text/x-wiki La Wikipédia abstraite est une encyclopédie [[$1|sous licence libre]] d'[[$2|articles abstraits]] que tout le monde peut modifier. 5x2k675gvpz8ljlw5fbjmzrea6366yu 1198 3369 9048 2026-05-29T13:20:15Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9048 wikitext text/x-wiki Abstract Wikipedia:Project chat/Header nonh935stkzad8xszq77n234vbj1ls3 1198 3370 9049 2026-05-29T13:20:15Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9049 wikitext text/x-wiki '''Abstract Wikipedia Project chat''' s4lgwwu9poqaqfr36f5frs77qjsj7to 1198 3371 9050 2026-05-29T13:20:15Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9050 wikitext text/x-wiki This is where discussions on the project happen. h5xutpp1a29sopk04quddrzchd6zq9x 1198 3372 9051 2026-05-29T13:20:15Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9051 wikitext text/x-wiki More technical issues should go to: [[$1|Report a technical problem]]. 5dwkrhzpi8xw0ddn3ye8bwjicyocugy 1198 3373 9052 2026-05-29T13:20:15Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9052 wikitext text/x-wiki For older discussions, see the [[$2|archives]]. sols2zak98kqofrcal9jlkr4ma1tver 4 3374 9053 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 9053 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> '''Abstract Wikipedia Project chat'''<br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;">This is where discussions on the project happen.</span> * More technical issues should go to: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Report a technical problem]]. * For older discussions, see the [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|archives]]. </div> t8ise0cnf0xuukxv7787fblobi2tqbw 1198 3375 9055 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9055 wikitext text/x-wiki Abstract Wikipedia:WikiProject q9bgp2d4m3hw5ogfd176dt49sme6i6u 1198 3376 9056 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9056 wikitext text/x-wiki A WikiProject is a group of contributors who want to work together as a team to improve Wikipedia. These groups often focus on a specific topic area, a specific part of the encyclopedia, or a specific kind of task. ibcfw5h6qo747k9ezfwhndbvhi0fzv9 1198 3377 9057 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9057 wikitext text/x-wiki Function s9772wivsoqwf2nvuop3npnkcsmnpja 1198 3378 9058 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9058 wikitext text/x-wiki A WikiProject collaborates to improve a particular topic area. The group uses its WikiProject pages to develop ideas, discuss sources, maintain various collaborative processes, and keep track of work that needs to be done. 0zav4hq8wjvd0i5a87yx0e468uunvy2 1198 3379 9059 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9059 wikitext text/x-wiki The discussion pages attached to a project page are a convenient venue for those involved in that project to talk about what they are doing, to ask questions, and to receive advice from other people interested in the group's work. 70sf6s00wj9v6r0b511d3n7p45f9k3w 1198 3380 9060 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9060 wikitext text/x-wiki They typically are areas of interest or expertise and can be used for collaboration, coordination, competitions, outreach, decision-making, integration and mutual assistance. lcfeyyg7yevyz71mwev9ul4ajhb5f2v 1198 3381 9061 2026-05-29T13:20:16Z FuzzyBot 563 Importing a new version from external source 9061 wikitext text/x-wiki WikiProjects are not rule-making organizations, nor can they assert ownership of articles within a specific topic area. WikiProjects have no special rights or privileges compared to other editors and may not impose their preferences on articles. A WikiProject is fundamentally a social construct: its success depends on its ability to function as a cohesive group of editors working towards a common goal. 6psy1n7aivjnkohfe7lvgijrfcsth3r 4 3382 9062 2026-05-29T13:20:17Z FuzzyBot 563 Updating to match new version of source page 9062 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> A WikiProject is a group of contributors who want to work together as a team to improve Wikipedia. These groups often focus on a specific topic area, a specific part of the encyclopedia, or a specific kind of task. == Function == A WikiProject collaborates to improve a particular topic area. The group uses its WikiProject pages to develop ideas, discuss sources, maintain various collaborative processes, and keep track of work that needs to be done. The discussion pages attached to a project page are a convenient venue for those involved in that project to talk about what they are doing, to ask questions, and to receive advice from other people interested in the group's work. They typically are areas of interest or expertise and can be used for collaboration, coordination, competitions, outreach, decision-making, integration and mutual assistance. WikiProjects are not rule-making organizations, nor can they assert ownership of articles within a specific topic area. WikiProjects have no special rights or privileges compared to other editors and may not impose their preferences on articles. A WikiProject is fundamentally a social construct: its success depends on its ability to function as a cohesive group of editors working towards a common goal. [[Category:WikiProjects| ]] f4cdo7mftqz0jm4t1lq0vp51r2c4gnn 1198 3383 9065 2026-05-29T13:59:07Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Liste des administrateurs de traduction" 9065 wikitext text/x-wiki Liste des administrateurs de traduction gq056h898hidfcf58t0ffmlpiyat6t3 4 3384 9066 2026-05-29T13:59:07Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Liste des administrateurs de traduction" 9066 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Administrators''' or '''sysops''' are users with extra permissions. They can delete pages, protect pages, block users and do a variety of other tasks.</span> === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">List of administrators</span> === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Currently, there are [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:sysop}} - 1<!-- Abuse filter -->}}]] administrators.</span> == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Translation administrators</span> == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Translation administrators''' are users who have the technical ability to mark pages for translation using the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Translate|page translation]] tool.</span> === Liste des administrateurs de traduction === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Currently, there are [[Special:ListUsers/translationadmin|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:translationadmin}}-1}}]] community translation administrators.</span> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Administrators]] 6emptvsjlx4kr2sf5m8e7351sxos8tz 9087 9066 2026-05-29T14:26:12Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Actuellement, il y a $1 administrateur de traduction." 9087 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Administrators''' or '''sysops''' are users with extra permissions. They can delete pages, protect pages, block users and do a variety of other tasks.</span> === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">List of administrators</span> === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Currently, there are [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:sysop}} - 1<!-- Abuse filter -->}}]] administrators.</span> == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Translation administrators</span> == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Translation administrators''' are users who have the technical ability to mark pages for translation using the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Translate|page translation]] tool.</span> === Liste des administrateurs de traduction === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/translationadmin|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:translationadmin}}-1}}]] administrateur de traduction. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Administrators]] 5k16np4noa42oymvcnluun5hdsmz5a9 9089 9087 2026-05-29T14:26:28Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Administrateurs de traduction" 9089 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Administrators''' or '''sysops''' are users with extra permissions. They can delete pages, protect pages, block users and do a variety of other tasks.</span> === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">List of administrators</span> === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Currently, there are [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:sysop}} - 1<!-- Abuse filter -->}}]] administrators.</span> == Administrateurs de traduction == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Translation administrators''' are users who have the technical ability to mark pages for translation using the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Translate|page translation]] tool.</span> === Liste des administrateurs de traduction === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/translationadmin|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:translationadmin}}-1}}]] administrateur de traduction. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Administrators]] 6bjow1p92v70k8wxpcaalzlvqe2t2yx 9091 9089 2026-05-29T14:26:46Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Actuellement, il y a $1 administrateurs." 9091 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Administrators''' or '''sysops''' are users with extra permissions. They can delete pages, protect pages, block users and do a variety of other tasks.</span> === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">List of administrators</span> === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:sysop}} - 1<!-- Abuse filter -->}}]] administrateurs. == Administrateurs de traduction == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Translation administrators''' are users who have the technical ability to mark pages for translation using the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Translate|page translation]] tool.</span> === Liste des administrateurs de traduction === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/translationadmin|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:translationadmin}}-1}}]] administrateur de traduction. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Administrators]] cgvqqbyojgjg71hdvdyonzzoj6rscwg 9094 9091 2026-05-29T14:30:19Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les '''administrateurs''' ou '''sysops''' sont des utilisateurs disposant de privilèges étendus. Ils peuvent supprimer des pages, les protéger, bloquer des utilisateurs et effectuer diverses autres tâches." 9094 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> Les '''administrateurs''' ou '''sysops''' sont des utilisateurs disposant de privilèges étendus. Ils peuvent supprimer des pages, les protéger, bloquer des utilisateurs et effectuer diverses autres tâches. === <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">List of administrators</span> === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:sysop}} - 1<!-- Abuse filter -->}}]] administrateurs. == Administrateurs de traduction == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Translation administrators''' are users who have the technical ability to mark pages for translation using the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Translate|page translation]] tool.</span> === Liste des administrateurs de traduction === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/translationadmin|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:translationadmin}}-1}}]] administrateur de traduction. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Administrators]] l9pde140qaodby9ecdf1tcwbj67l6q9 9096 9094 2026-05-29T14:30:29Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Liste des administrateurs" 9096 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> Les '''administrateurs''' ou '''sysops''' sont des utilisateurs disposant de privilèges étendus. Ils peuvent supprimer des pages, les protéger, bloquer des utilisateurs et effectuer diverses autres tâches. === Liste des administrateurs === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:sysop}} - 1<!-- Abuse filter -->}}]] administrateurs. == Administrateurs de traduction == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Translation administrators''' are users who have the technical ability to mark pages for translation using the [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Translate|page translation]] tool.</span> === Liste des administrateurs de traduction === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/translationadmin|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:translationadmin}}-1}}]] administrateur de traduction. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Administrators]] rno7h7xwpf11esua9fgyuix3qmwbqj0 9098 9096 2026-05-29T14:31:38Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les '''administrateurs de traduction''' sont des utilisateurs qui ont la capacité technique de marquer les pages à traduire à l'aide de l'outil [[$1|Translate ]]." 9098 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> Les '''administrateurs''' ou '''sysops''' sont des utilisateurs disposant de privilèges étendus. Ils peuvent supprimer des pages, les protéger, bloquer des utilisateurs et effectuer diverses autres tâches. === Liste des administrateurs === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/sysop|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:sysop}} - 1<!-- Abuse filter -->}}]] administrateurs. == Administrateurs de traduction == Les '''administrateurs de traduction''' sont des utilisateurs qui ont la capacité technique de marquer les pages à traduire à l'aide de l'outil [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:Translate|Translate ]]. === Liste des administrateurs de traduction === Actuellement, il y a [[Special:ListUsers/translationadmin|{{#expr:{{NUMBERINGROUP:translationadmin}}-1}}]] administrateur de traduction. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Administrators]] 74sg88az2xosmi3ofxa2u9mxueshxfo 1198 3385 9067 2026-05-29T14:16:25Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un obje..." 9067 wikitext text/x-wiki Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un objectif commun. p71lm9pi95z35bsrhus8mudop8xfwqa 4 3386 9068 2026-05-29T14:16:26Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un obje..." 9068 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">A WikiProject is a group of contributors who want to work together as a team to improve Wikipedia. These groups often focus on a specific topic area, a specific part of the encyclopedia, or a specific kind of task.</span> == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Function</span> == <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> A WikiProject collaborates to improve a particular topic area. The group uses its WikiProject pages to develop ideas, discuss sources, maintain various collaborative processes, and keep track of work that needs to be done. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> The discussion pages attached to a project page are a convenient venue for those involved in that project to talk about what they are doing, to ask questions, and to receive advice from other people interested in the group's work. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> They typically are areas of interest or expertise and can be used for collaboration, coordination, competitions, outreach, decision-making, integration and mutual assistance. </div> Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un objectif commun. [[Category:WikiProjects| ]] odlbjqnsbzu158og0hlbwrlxemm74hl 9070 9068 2026-05-29T14:17:28Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Il s'agit généralement de domaines d'intérêt ou d'expertise qui peuvent être utilisés pour la collaboration, la coordination, les compétitions, la sensibilisation, la prise de décision, l'intégration et l'entraide." 9070 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">A WikiProject is a group of contributors who want to work together as a team to improve Wikipedia. These groups often focus on a specific topic area, a specific part of the encyclopedia, or a specific kind of task.</span> == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Function</span> == <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> A WikiProject collaborates to improve a particular topic area. The group uses its WikiProject pages to develop ideas, discuss sources, maintain various collaborative processes, and keep track of work that needs to be done. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> The discussion pages attached to a project page are a convenient venue for those involved in that project to talk about what they are doing, to ask questions, and to receive advice from other people interested in the group's work. </div> Il s'agit généralement de domaines d'intérêt ou d'expertise qui peuvent être utilisés pour la collaboration, la coordination, les compétitions, la sensibilisation, la prise de décision, l'intégration et l'entraide. Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un objectif commun. [[Category:WikiProjects| ]] lrjyhf0cex723mc4m4wg64csvd0flv1 9072 9070 2026-05-29T14:20:05Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les pages de discussion d'un projet sont un lieu pratique pour les personnes impliquées dans ce projet afin de parler de ce qu'elles font, de poser des questions et de recevoir des conseils d'autres personnes intéressées par le travail du groupe." 9072 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">A WikiProject is a group of contributors who want to work together as a team to improve Wikipedia. These groups often focus on a specific topic area, a specific part of the encyclopedia, or a specific kind of task.</span> == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Function</span> == <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> A WikiProject collaborates to improve a particular topic area. The group uses its WikiProject pages to develop ideas, discuss sources, maintain various collaborative processes, and keep track of work that needs to be done. </div> Les pages de discussion d'un projet sont un lieu pratique pour les personnes impliquées dans ce projet afin de parler de ce qu'elles font, de poser des questions et de recevoir des conseils d'autres personnes intéressées par le travail du groupe. Il s'agit généralement de domaines d'intérêt ou d'expertise qui peuvent être utilisés pour la collaboration, la coordination, les compétitions, la sensibilisation, la prise de décision, l'intégration et l'entraide. Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un objectif commun. [[Category:WikiProjects| ]] qdx1sbj2ygpx1nhnkflielimeqn747s 9074 9072 2026-05-29T14:20:35Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Un wikiprojet est un groupe de travail collaboratif qui vise à améliorer un domaine thématique particulier. Ce groupe utilise ses pages pour développer des idées, discuter des sources, maintenir différents processus collaboratifs et suivre les tâches à accomplir." 9074 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">A WikiProject is a group of contributors who want to work together as a team to improve Wikipedia. These groups often focus on a specific topic area, a specific part of the encyclopedia, or a specific kind of task.</span> == <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Function</span> == Un wikiprojet est un groupe de travail collaboratif qui vise à améliorer un domaine thématique particulier. Ce groupe utilise ses pages pour développer des idées, discuter des sources, maintenir différents processus collaboratifs et suivre les tâches à accomplir. Les pages de discussion d'un projet sont un lieu pratique pour les personnes impliquées dans ce projet afin de parler de ce qu'elles font, de poser des questions et de recevoir des conseils d'autres personnes intéressées par le travail du groupe. Il s'agit généralement de domaines d'intérêt ou d'expertise qui peuvent être utilisés pour la collaboration, la coordination, les compétitions, la sensibilisation, la prise de décision, l'intégration et l'entraide. Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un objectif commun. [[Category:WikiProjects| ]] r0vxhhfuq3vw7tmjbentrtg5dinvrv7 9076 9074 2026-05-29T14:20:39Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Fonction" 9076 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">A WikiProject is a group of contributors who want to work together as a team to improve Wikipedia. These groups often focus on a specific topic area, a specific part of the encyclopedia, or a specific kind of task.</span> == Fonction == Un wikiprojet est un groupe de travail collaboratif qui vise à améliorer un domaine thématique particulier. Ce groupe utilise ses pages pour développer des idées, discuter des sources, maintenir différents processus collaboratifs et suivre les tâches à accomplir. Les pages de discussion d'un projet sont un lieu pratique pour les personnes impliquées dans ce projet afin de parler de ce qu'elles font, de poser des questions et de recevoir des conseils d'autres personnes intéressées par le travail du groupe. Il s'agit généralement de domaines d'intérêt ou d'expertise qui peuvent être utilisés pour la collaboration, la coordination, les compétitions, la sensibilisation, la prise de décision, l'intégration et l'entraide. Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un objectif commun. [[Category:WikiProjects| ]] ngy5f611q8rkc19vvdfve6pxf4u7t4b 9078 9076 2026-05-29T14:21:07Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Un wikiprojet est un groupe de contributeurs qui souhaitent collaborer pour améliorer Wikipédia. Ces groupes se concentrent souvent sur un domaine thématique précis, une partie spécifique de l'encyclopédie ou un type de tâche particulier." 9078 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> Un wikiprojet est un groupe de contributeurs qui souhaitent collaborer pour améliorer Wikipédia. Ces groupes se concentrent souvent sur un domaine thématique précis, une partie spécifique de l'encyclopédie ou un type de tâche particulier. == Fonction == Un wikiprojet est un groupe de travail collaboratif qui vise à améliorer un domaine thématique particulier. Ce groupe utilise ses pages pour développer des idées, discuter des sources, maintenir différents processus collaboratifs et suivre les tâches à accomplir. Les pages de discussion d'un projet sont un lieu pratique pour les personnes impliquées dans ce projet afin de parler de ce qu'elles font, de poser des questions et de recevoir des conseils d'autres personnes intéressées par le travail du groupe. Il s'agit généralement de domaines d'intérêt ou d'expertise qui peuvent être utilisés pour la collaboration, la coordination, les compétitions, la sensibilisation, la prise de décision, l'intégration et l'entraide. Les wikiprojets ne sont pas des organisations décisionnels et ne peuvent revendiquer la propriété des articles d'un domaine thématique spécifique. Ils ne bénéficient d'aucun droit ni privilège particulier par rapport aux autres contributeurs et ne peuvent imposer leurs préférences aux articles. Un wikiprojet est avant tout une construction sociale : son succès repose sur sa capacité à fonctionner comme un groupe cohérent de personnes travaillant à un objectif commun. [[Category:WikiProjects| ]] 7x9gz4d65q3ns4f9wz7zoc4wq9ptr6e 1198 3387 9069 2026-05-29T14:17:27Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Il s'agit généralement de domaines d'intérêt ou d'expertise qui peuvent être utilisés pour la collaboration, la coordination, les compétitions, la sensibilisation, la prise de décision, l'intégration et l'entraide." 9069 wikitext text/x-wiki Il s'agit généralement de domaines d'intérêt ou d'expertise qui peuvent être utilisés pour la collaboration, la coordination, les compétitions, la sensibilisation, la prise de décision, l'intégration et l'entraide. iru9flrhuabppxmjejjld93xlko65z6 1198 3388 9071 2026-05-29T14:20:04Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les pages de discussion d'un projet sont un lieu pratique pour les personnes impliquées dans ce projet afin de parler de ce qu'elles font, de poser des questions et de recevoir des conseils d'autres personnes intéressées par le travail du groupe." 9071 wikitext text/x-wiki Les pages de discussion d'un projet sont un lieu pratique pour les personnes impliquées dans ce projet afin de parler de ce qu'elles font, de poser des questions et de recevoir des conseils d'autres personnes intéressées par le travail du groupe. mkttb0yq8y0okb5n3udoikb8xy78qpz 1198 3389 9073 2026-05-29T14:20:35Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Un wikiprojet est un groupe de travail collaboratif qui vise à améliorer un domaine thématique particulier. Ce groupe utilise ses pages pour développer des idées, discuter des sources, maintenir différents processus collaboratifs et suivre les tâches à accomplir." 9073 wikitext text/x-wiki Un wikiprojet est un groupe de travail collaboratif qui vise à améliorer un domaine thématique particulier. Ce groupe utilise ses pages pour développer des idées, discuter des sources, maintenir différents processus collaboratifs et suivre les tâches à accomplir. n37f3ah0v4sooi8aox29y38jpjdp7m1 1198 3390 9075 2026-05-29T14:20:39Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Fonction" 9075 wikitext text/x-wiki Fonction 5m74bk0jgdluahvqkylma1yckldq02d 1198 3391 9077 2026-05-29T14:21:06Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Un wikiprojet est un groupe de contributeurs qui souhaitent collaborer pour améliorer Wikipédia. Ces groupes se concentrent souvent sur un domaine thématique précis, une partie spécifique de l'encyclopédie ou un type de tâche particulier." 9077 wikitext text/x-wiki Un wikiprojet est un groupe de contributeurs qui souhaitent collaborer pour améliorer Wikipédia. Ces groupes se concentrent souvent sur un domaine thématique précis, une partie spécifique de l'encyclopédie ou un type de tâche particulier. prbgoymyxnhkl0kiei2kvqr5zz1wk4d 1198 3392 9079 2026-05-29T14:21:18Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Wikipédia abstraite:Wikiprojets" 9079 wikitext text/x-wiki Wikipédia abstraite:Wikiprojets ptdcto9aoftbfifv4kissztfwpe5x1t 1198 3393 9080 2026-05-29T14:22:21Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Pour les discussions plus anciennes, voir les [[$2|archives]]." 9080 wikitext text/x-wiki Pour les discussions plus anciennes, voir les [[$2|archives]]. gb2c3b2yve09vg9o1ncwkj18gmlly2v 4 3394 9081 2026-05-29T14:22:21Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Pour les discussions plus anciennes, voir les [[$2|archives]]." 9081 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Abstract Wikipedia Project chat'''</span><br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;"><span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">This is where discussions on the project happen.</span></span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">More technical issues should go to: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Report a technical problem]].</span> * Pour les discussions plus anciennes, voir les [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|archives]]. </div> nu7n28dhgc6519cgq16fijlvbthsn55 9083 9081 2026-05-29T14:25:07Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les questions plus techniques doivent aller sur [[$1|Signaler un problème technique]]." 9083 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Abstract Wikipedia Project chat'''</span><br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;"><span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">This is where discussions on the project happen.</span></span> * Les questions plus techniques doivent aller sur [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Signaler un problème technique]]. * Pour les discussions plus anciennes, voir les [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|archives]]. </div> n7oj7n8rfry34ywp6xnmlqpk1x56z4l 9085 9083 2026-05-29T14:25:40Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "C'est ici que les discussions sur le projet se déroulent." 9085 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Abstract Wikipedia Project chat'''</span><br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;">C'est ici que les discussions sur le projet se déroulent.</span> * Les questions plus techniques doivent aller sur [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Signaler un problème technique]]. * Pour les discussions plus anciennes, voir les [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|archives]]. </div> s4c43w31vb7iuzaav8hqk0fsf6a554a 1198 3395 9082 2026-05-29T14:25:07Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les questions plus techniques doivent aller sur [[$1|Signaler un problème technique]]." 9082 wikitext text/x-wiki Les questions plus techniques doivent aller sur [[$1|Signaler un problème technique]]. fuv7dhrmjilcv7b9agz4v5w7z1wpk4j 1198 3396 9084 2026-05-29T14:25:39Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "C'est ici que les discussions sur le projet se déroulent." 9084 wikitext text/x-wiki C'est ici que les discussions sur le projet se déroulent. 9dr0xvv6kk358665hpb7p5qm9jauoam 1198 3397 9086 2026-05-29T14:26:11Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Actuellement, il y a $1 administrateur de traduction." 9086 wikitext text/x-wiki Actuellement, il y a $1 administrateur de traduction. 7qko6fx140vpz3g44wapfkanmht72cd 1198 3398 9088 2026-05-29T14:26:27Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Administrateurs de traduction" 9088 wikitext text/x-wiki Administrateurs de traduction b1a908qt9ncexeac98z1bh44ivwrr1a 1198 3399 9090 2026-05-29T14:26:45Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Actuellement, il y a $1 administrateurs." 9090 wikitext text/x-wiki Actuellement, il y a $1 administrateurs. 1hdfcjb0bpll85lpky48gqijqizegnj 1198 3400 9092 2026-05-29T14:29:50Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Wikipédia abstraite:Administrateurs" 9092 wikitext text/x-wiki Wikipédia abstraite:Administrateurs d7gz0renypkojmsg11puafcjmeybv7t 1198 3401 9093 2026-05-29T14:30:19Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les '''administrateurs''' ou '''sysops''' sont des utilisateurs disposant de privilèges étendus. Ils peuvent supprimer des pages, les protéger, bloquer des utilisateurs et effectuer diverses autres tâches." 9093 wikitext text/x-wiki Les '''administrateurs''' ou '''sysops''' sont des utilisateurs disposant de privilèges étendus. Ils peuvent supprimer des pages, les protéger, bloquer des utilisateurs et effectuer diverses autres tâches. 61j1xki235lwxy8hkqsu224ys71vc0n 1198 3402 9095 2026-05-29T14:30:28Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Liste des administrateurs" 9095 wikitext text/x-wiki Liste des administrateurs d7rv6miue721z4u46pll2g1od0uj99l 1198 3403 9097 2026-05-29T14:31:38Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les '''administrateurs de traduction''' sont des utilisateurs qui ont la capacité technique de marquer les pages à traduire à l'aide de l'outil [[$1|Translate ]]." 9097 wikitext text/x-wiki Les '''administrateurs de traduction''' sont des utilisateurs qui ont la capacité technique de marquer les pages à traduire à l'aide de l'outil [[$1|Translate ]]. jrwow15nd3qhalk9vswf0tc0v54f5b7 1198 3404 9125 2026-05-30T04:56:56Z Theki 2698 Created page with "sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[$2|kulupu pi toki majuna]]." 9125 wikitext text/x-wiki sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[$2|kulupu pi toki majuna]]. 2wkpxklez0caa4ebphcjsqiyzkz89vi 4 3405 9126 2026-05-30T04:56:56Z Theki 2698 Created page with "sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[$2|kulupu pi toki majuna]]." 9126 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Abstract Wikipedia Project chat'''</span><br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;"><span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">This is where discussions on the project happen.</span></span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">More technical issues should go to: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Report a technical problem]].</span> * sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|kulupu pi toki majuna]]. </div> as0mxhi5jnnk3plli86otcxwfk9lgvu 9128 9126 2026-05-30T05:02:14Z Theki 2698 Created page with "jan li toki e ijo pi lipu ni lon tomo toki ni." 9128 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">'''Abstract Wikipedia Project chat'''</span><br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;">jan li toki e ijo pi lipu ni lon tomo toki ni.</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">More technical issues should go to: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Report a technical problem]].</span> * sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|kulupu pi toki majuna]]. </div> 76ud6j8mcjdx8asjh1i5m7k7k2leeq6 9130 9128 2026-05-30T05:02:32Z Theki 2698 Created page with "lipu Wikipesija pi toki ale la tomo toki" 9130 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> lipu Wikipesija pi toki ale la tomo toki<br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;">jan li toki e ijo pi lipu ni lon tomo toki ni.</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">More technical issues should go to: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Report a technical problem]].</span> * sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|kulupu pi toki majuna]]. </div> lpca4687fxttmzgvlz9hd4tq3oum6ou 9132 9130 2026-05-30T05:03:23Z Theki 2698 9132 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> '''lipu Wikipesija pi toki ale la tomo toki'''<br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;">jan li toki e ijo pi lipu ni lon tomo toki ni.</span> * <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">More technical issues should go to: [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|Report a technical problem]].</span> * sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|kulupu pi toki majuna]]. </div> jdr00krbqmdl1hyk7f5hm0n754t3m8v 9134 9132 2026-05-30T05:05:46Z Theki 2698 Created page with "sina wile toki e pakala ilo la o toki lon [[$1|tomo toki ilo]]." 9134 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> '''lipu Wikipesija pi toki ale la tomo toki'''<br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;">jan li toki e ijo pi lipu ni lon tomo toki ni.</span> * sina wile toki e pakala ilo la o toki lon [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|tomo toki ilo]]. * sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|kulupu pi toki majuna]]. </div> ghi1yblwtt6g1jt4kptc0d1oqudkpdj 9136 9134 2026-05-30T05:07:16Z Theki 2698 9136 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <div style="border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1); padding:1em; margin: 0.2em 0;"> {{Shortcut|[[Project:PC]]|[[Project:VP]]}}<includeonly>__NEWSECTIONLINK__ [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|Project chat]]</includeonly> '''lipu Wikipesija pi toki ale la tomo toki'''<br /> <span style="font-size:smaller;">jan li toki e ijo pi lipu ni lon tomo toki ni.</span> * sina wile toki e pakala ilo la o toki lon [[Abstract Wikipedia:Report a technical problem|tomo toki pi pakala ilo]]. * sina wile lukin e toki majuna la o lukin e [[Abstract:Project chat/Archives|kulupu pi toki majuna]]. </div> d68szyczt84dl3xbp23qmuqkzndvnmc 1198 3406 9127 2026-05-30T05:02:12Z Theki 2698 Created page with "jan li toki e ijo pi lipu ni lon tomo toki ni." 9127 wikitext text/x-wiki jan li toki e ijo pi lipu ni lon tomo toki ni. barjjx1hvii4hgadukcrz1xcs76dc32 1198 3407 9129 2026-05-30T05:02:31Z Theki 2698 Created page with "lipu Wikipesija pi toki ale la tomo toki" 9129 wikitext text/x-wiki lipu Wikipesija pi toki ale la tomo toki 5so51vt5iv3swic8ioa6x171dnrlj1z 9131 9129 2026-05-30T05:03:22Z Theki 2698 9131 wikitext text/x-wiki '''lipu Wikipesija pi toki ale la tomo toki''' ohp6zghucpw19kq3a0kf33r3c6kn3jd 1198 3408 9133 2026-05-30T05:05:45Z Theki 2698 Created page with "sina wile toki e pakala ilo la o toki lon [[$1|tomo toki ilo]]." 9133 wikitext text/x-wiki sina wile toki e pakala ilo la o toki lon [[$1|tomo toki ilo]]. ogli4q4ieexqgbmg7nep1x33013a6a9 9135 9133 2026-05-30T05:07:15Z 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VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Wikipédia abstraite:Babel" 9180 wikitext text/x-wiki Wikipédia abstraite:Babel fb0czcx0rw6jx9pm6icug7ikx3umn40 4 3438 9181 2026-05-30T10:09:05Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Wikipédia abstraite:Babel" 9181 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> <span lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr">Users can add their language capacity with functions such as the following:</span> <nowiki>{{#babel:en|es-2|pt-1|de-0}}</nowiki> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> which produces a table showing one's language abilities. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> It is rarely necessary or desirable to state that you have no capacity in a language. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> Adding this information to your userpage will categorize it in subcategories of [[:Category:Babel - Users by language|Babel – users by language]]. </div> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Babel]] 14lnun70tx0jsct1xffaplj6opvkht3 9183 9181 2026-05-30T10:09:52Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les utilisateurs peuvent ajouter leurs compétences linguistiques grâce à des fonctions telles que les suivantes :" 9183 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> Les utilisateurs peuvent ajouter leurs compétences linguistiques grâce à des fonctions telles que les suivantes : <nowiki>{{#babel:en|es-2|pt-1|de-0}}</nowiki> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> which produces a table showing one's language abilities. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> It is rarely necessary or desirable to state that you have no capacity in a language. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> Adding this information to your userpage will categorize it in subcategories of [[:Category:Babel - Users by language|Babel – users by language]]. </div> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Babel]] 1lvfyxzv2vc8x1bbua7nvcm8213irci 9185 9183 2026-05-30T10:10:10Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "qui génère un tableau présentant les compétences linguistiques d'une personne." 9185 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> Les utilisateurs peuvent ajouter leurs compétences linguistiques grâce à des fonctions telles que les suivantes : <nowiki>{{#babel:en|es-2|pt-1|de-0}}</nowiki> qui génère un tableau présentant les compétences linguistiques d'une personne. <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> It is rarely necessary or desirable to state that you have no capacity in a language. </div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> Adding this information to your userpage will categorize it in subcategories of [[:Category:Babel - Users by language|Babel – users by language]]. </div> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Babel]] d17c7mbyai1k2dsabnh6ej0va06gak7 9187 9185 2026-05-30T10:10:24Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Il est rarement nécessaire ou souhaitable de déclarer que l'on ne maîtrise pas une langue." 9187 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> Les utilisateurs peuvent ajouter leurs compétences linguistiques grâce à des fonctions telles que les suivantes : <nowiki>{{#babel:en|es-2|pt-1|de-0}}</nowiki> qui génère un tableau présentant les compétences linguistiques d'une personne. Il est rarement nécessaire ou souhaitable de déclarer que l'on ne maîtrise pas une langue. <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"> Adding this information to your userpage will categorize it in subcategories of [[:Category:Babel - Users by language|Babel – users by language]]. </div> [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Babel]] s9lr8xlqv28tluohp0817hzg4eg9alk 9189 9187 2026-05-30T10:10:56Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "L'ajout de ces informations à votre page utilisateur la catégorise dans des sous-catégories de [[$1|Babel – utilisateurs par langue]]." 9189 wikitext text/x-wiki <languages/> Les utilisateurs peuvent ajouter leurs compétences linguistiques grâce à des fonctions telles que les suivantes : <nowiki>{{#babel:en|es-2|pt-1|de-0}}</nowiki> qui génère un tableau présentant les compétences linguistiques d'une personne. Il est rarement nécessaire ou souhaitable de déclarer que l'on ne maîtrise pas une langue. L'ajout de ces informations à votre page utilisateur la catégorise dans des sous-catégories de [[:Category:Babel - Users by language|Babel – utilisateurs par langue]]. [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration{{#translation:}}|Babel]] jdptgampm4bm32j9s6gt4g7k8sxv15r 1198 3439 9182 2026-05-30T10:09:47Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Les utilisateurs peuvent ajouter leurs compétences linguistiques grâce à des fonctions telles que les suivantes :" 9182 wikitext text/x-wiki Les utilisateurs peuvent ajouter leurs compétences linguistiques grâce à des fonctions telles que les suivantes : pn3dgl7qnz5rk3w07w3p73iwbvzte3l 1198 3440 9184 2026-05-30T10:10:07Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "qui génère un tableau présentant les compétences linguistiques d'une personne." 9184 wikitext text/x-wiki qui génère un tableau présentant les compétences linguistiques d'une personne. aua2kkxkwsk1szcbj3onuyq47v3yqyf 1198 3441 9186 2026-05-30T10:10:21Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "Il est rarement nécessaire ou souhaitable de déclarer que l'on ne maîtrise pas une langue." 9186 wikitext text/x-wiki Il est rarement nécessaire ou souhaitable de déclarer que l'on ne maîtrise pas une langue. gdbzxsos79bmruy63kvugdcbecn5i5y 1198 3442 9188 2026-05-30T10:10:55Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "L'ajout de ces informations à votre page utilisateur la catégorise dans des sous-catégories de [[$1|Babel – utilisateurs par langue]]." 9188 wikitext text/x-wiki L'ajout de ces informations à votre page utilisateur la catégorise dans des sous-catégories de [[$1|Babel – utilisateurs par langue]]. 6hr84xkcgwy5zne4pgzo6qgb0uyv7rq 14 3443 9190 2026-05-30T10:12:52Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "[[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|fr]]" 9190 wikitext text/x-wiki [[Category:Abstract Wikipedia administration|fr]] 9lgehl2gil0ug6hn3xkczrtret9odw2 3 3444 9191 2026-05-30T10:38:43Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "{{Welcome}} Cheers, ~~~~" 9191 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:38, 30 May 2026 (UTC) 3eu7j50cnyfym9mfu5bi99hdgcntfo2 3 3445 9192 2026-05-30T10:40:26Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "{{Welcome}} Cheers, ~~~~" 9192 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:40, 30 May 2026 (UTC) 1pdu76zqnvueh6xtvx79z8nwmfby9sm 9200 9192 2026-05-30T11:03:39Z Ainali 44 9200 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:40, 30 May 2026 (UTC) : Thanks [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]]! Just so that you know, something in your message or template hinders Reply button in the discussion tools from working. (So I had to edit the entire page to write this.) <span style="color:#EAA">♥</span>[[User:Ainali|Ainali]] <small>^{[[User talk:Ainali|discussion]]}_{[[Special:Contributions/Ainali|contributions]]}</small> 11:03, 30 May 2026 (UTC) k602esaaa3srtoxrhc5tyz5nk4ty7y3 3 3446 9193 2026-05-30T10:40:53Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "{{Welcome}} Cheers, ~~~~" 9193 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:40, 30 May 2026 (UTC) 1pdu76zqnvueh6xtvx79z8nwmfby9sm 3 3447 9194 2026-05-30T10:40:54Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "{{Welcome}} Cheers, ~~~~" 9194 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:40, 30 May 2026 (UTC) 1pdu76zqnvueh6xtvx79z8nwmfby9sm 3 3448 9195 2026-05-30T10:41:31Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "{{Welcome}} Cheers, ~~~~" 9195 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:41, 30 May 2026 (UTC) bj6lc6jymy1m4itsdxfdnkogyfmx4a8 3 3449 9196 2026-05-30T10:42:30Z VIGNERON 163 Welcome :D 9196 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:42, 30 May 2026 (UTC) nlwj46woz88sgh4ve634h8859lfaf3j 3 3450 9197 2026-05-30T10:42:32Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "{{Welcome}} Cheers, ~~~~" 9197 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:42, 30 May 2026 (UTC) nlwj46woz88sgh4ve634h8859lfaf3j 3 3451 9198 2026-05-30T10:42:56Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "{{Welcome}} Cheers, ~~~~" 9198 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:42, 30 May 2026 (UTC) nlwj46woz88sgh4ve634h8859lfaf3j 3 3452 9199 2026-05-30T10:44:29Z VIGNERON 163 Created page with "{{Welcome}} Cheers, ~~~~" 9199 wikitext text/x-wiki {{Welcome}} Cheers, [[User:VIGNERON|VIGNERON]] ([[User talk:VIGNERON|talk]]) 10:44, 30 May 2026 (UTC) 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