Talk:Паӂина принчипалэ/Архивэ1

Де ла Википедия ын лимба молдовеняскэ

Why can't Moldavian Wikipedia serve as the Romanian Wikipedia in Cyrillic? --OldakQuill 23:58, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, first of all, the Romanian Wikipedians hate Cyrillic. On their logo, they have changed the Cyrillic character on the globe to a Latin one for the sole reason that they think it's evilly communistically Soviet. The point of its appearance is that Cyrillic exists and that it's widely used, but apparently they don't care. Secondly, the current official alphabet of the Moldavian language is Latin, and has been since around 1990. Many people still use Cyrillic, but their government has betrayed them because now all official services use Latin only. Also, Moldavian/Romanian text in Latin can automatically be converted to and from Cyrillic with 99.9999% accuracy since the two systems are both phonetic. An autoconversion option similar to the one used on the Chinese Wikipedia should probably be pursued, but if anybody tried it would probably be shot down quickly because as previously mentioned there is a serious POV problem on ro.wikipedia with anti-Moldavianism and people hating all things Russian, especially the Cyrillic script, even though the fact that some people use it to write the language is undeniable. For example, the Romanian article on the Moldavian language goes on and on and on about how it's not really a language, and that only the crazy Moldavians say it is but that the sensible smart Romanians know it isn't, without using NPOV to state that there are two views with similar validity (Serbian and Croatian are as much separate languages as are Romanian and Moldavian), and if anybody tries to fix it they are immediately reverted for "inserting POV" and if they try to discuss it on the talkpages they will probably be ostricised and eventually even banned.
Romanians don't hate Cyrillic. I'm the one that changed the logo, but not because I hate cyrillic (i didn't even thought about that), but because I wanted to have an Romanian special letter in the logo, and that letter was the best seen, and the most easy to change. Romanian written in Cyrillic is no more used since one century in Romania, and 15 ore more years in Moldova. Cyrillic is used only in Transnistria officialy (Transnistria is not internationally recognised), but romanian speakers there don't agree to that (there was a big fight about allowing to use the latin script in schools last year, the schools that were using latin script were closed, I'm shore you remember that).
According to a very significant portion of the population of Moldavia, Romanian was NEVER spoken in Moldavia. This is where your POV shows. While Cyrillic may not be official in Moldavia anymore, many of the people educated in Cyrillic (anybody who got most of their education before the 90s, which is a lot of people) still prefer it to the Latin alphabet because they are more familiar with it. You can find postings in forums in it on the internet, chat sites in it, even websites in it: http://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%95%D1%83+%D0%B0%D0%BC+site:.md&hl=ro&lr=&safe=off&filter=0 (if you search for other common Moldavian Cyrillic words, you get some more sites too).
You are welcomed to edit the article about the Moldovian language in the Romanian Wikipedia, if you respect the Neutral Point of View. We, at Romanian Wikipedia try to unite all Romanian speakers, even though they come from Romanian, Moldova, Voivodina or Bucovina. If you don't agree to that you are welcomed to create an mo-cy.wikipedia.org for moldovians that use cyrillic, and on the main page of mo.wikipedia.org, to create links to ro.wikipedia.org and mo-cy.wikipedia.org . But I suggest you to not do so yet, and wait for the elections in Moldova, and see wich way do they end...
That is the problem with this attitude. Anybody who speaks any Eastern Romance language, according to you speaks Romanian (let's ignore for the moment Istriot, Dalmatian, Aromanian, Dacoromanian...), even if they say they speak MOLDOVAN and not Romanian. If somebody says they speak American, it is rude to tell them otherwise because this is how they choose to identify their native language, even though some might correct them and say they speak "English" (some people apparently feel that this implies they are of British nationality, I disagree but I do not object to them saying they speak American). If you want to unite all these people at the Wikipedia in the most widely spoken Eastern Romance language, then it is best to try to use neutral names to not exclude the people who "don't speak Romanian" but instead speak Moldovan, and anybody else who might object to the usage of the words "limba română" to describe their speech. The results of the elections don't matter here, what does matter is that there are people, real living human beings, that feel more comfortable using Cyrillic to write this language we are talking about, and they won't suddenly disappear if one candidate wins.
BTW, Romanian and Moldovan is the same language, actually on the official webpage of the Moldavan Academy of Science there is mention on the Romanian language using latin as the official language of Moldova, and you cannot find info about a Moldovian language. But, anyway, we at ro.wiki do have some guidelines that give equal rights to the users from Moldova and from Romania, as you can see on this page.
That's the problem, right here: "versiuni de limbă română". You are automatically ostricizing 1/3rd of the population of Moldova just by using that of the title of the page. Why not use "este limba" instead of "limba romana" or "limba moldoveana"? You asserting that Romanian and Moldovan are the same language is your opinion, not some sort of fact. The reason for this is that there is no solid linguistic definition for what is a language and what is a dialect, and some people divide very close speeches as different languages, but unite very very different speeches as dialects of the same language. As long as there are people that disagree with you and say that Moldovan is a different language, it is improper to say on the mainpage here that Romanian and Moldovan are identical, or on ro.wiki, or on en.wiki too. What is most important is native speakers. If all native speakers said Moldovan was a different language (Which they obviously don't), then it is only proper to not question this assertion because their feelings are important. But still, a large portion believe Moldovan is different, and we have to respect their feelings at the same time as we respect those Moldovans who believe they speak Romanian, meaning we may not pass judgement on the issue at all except to note that some (including the Moldovan Academy of Science) say one thing, and some say the other.
A, and I should mention also, that the article about the Moldovan language in the Romanian language Wikipedia was translated from the English Wikipedia, and you should know that in the en.wiki the NPOV standards are very restrictive.
Many articles go for months on en.wiki with a very strong POV before somebody fixes it.
Şi acum în română, pentru că îmi este destul de greu să scriu în engleză. Mă adresez acum personal utilizatorului care a scris mai sus. Poate nu ar trebui să priviţi România ca un duşman, pentru că dacă ne-aţi privi ca nişte prieteni, avocaţi ai ţării dvs. (cum spunea preşedintele Băsescu), poate nu aţi fi în situaţia în care sunteţi azi: conflict în Transnistria, una dintre cele mai sărace ţări din Europa (dacă nu cumva cea mai săracă) şi şanse de aderare la Uniunea Europeană cam peste 30 de ani (nu vor nici măcar să vă acorde statutul de membru asociat), spre deosebire de România care va adera la 1 ianuarie 2007. Poate ar trebui să reflectaţi la aceste lucruri. Şi văd că cetăţenii de rând al Moldovei, încep să conştientizeze acest fapt şi se îndreaptă spre România (vezi [1]) --Danutz
While Transnistria may not be recognised by other world countries, since the majority of people there want independence (and many claim they already have it - they certainly have de facto independence although definitely not de jure independence). I do not understand at all why this is such an issue here. I think that nationalism is clouding everybody's judgement and getting in the way of democracy.

[edit] Suggestion

I suggest that mo.wikipedia.org should serve as a live Cyrillic reflection of Romanian Wikipedia. Upon requesting a Cyrillic article on mo.wikipedia.org, the Romanian version is autoconverted from Latin to Cyrillic and presented as if local. Upon pressing edit you would be taken to the Romanian article and would have to edit in Latin. I am not sure whether we should do the same with Talk pages - or allow Cyrillic discussion to exist on mo.wikipedia seperately? I will suggest the development of an automated Cyrillic->Latin tool (as with Traditional Chinese <-> Simplified Chinese) to the development team. By denying the existance of Moldovian Wikipedia I fear that Wikimedia will be, or will be percieved as, POV - something which must be avoided. This seems the most effective solution, when this is achieved a small community of Moldovian Wikipedians will develop who can determin the best course for their Wikipedia. --OldakQuill 17:42, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PS. According to a census in 2004 - one third of those who spoke Moldovan said they considered Moldovan to be their mother tongue, as opposed to Romanian. This is about one million people who rejected Romanian (though a further two million considered Romanian to be their mother tongue) - I feel this is more than enough reason to create mo.wikipedia.org. --OldakQuill 16:38, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I agree here. OldakQuill, there is also another problem which is that people who write Moldovan in Cyrillic often prefer to replace the French, Italian, etc loanwords with Russian loanwords and native words, which cannot easily be done automatically (although if we built a fairly comprehensive glossary, we could convert a great deal of them). ~node
I do not think this would be a particular difficulty. On top of the autoconversion could be an appropriation filter - essentially a word-for-word filter which would replace West European loan words with Russian loan words. This filter could be based upon a database which is editable by the users of Moldovan wikipedia via a simple two-field HTTP interface. So, a page such as "Special:Wordfilter" would enable a user to type in Romanian loan term followed by the appropriate Moldovan equivelent replacement term. Further, this feature could probably be disabled by individual users according to preferences. --OldakQuill 16:38, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

About Transnistria. Yes most people there want independence. That because there is a slavic majority (russian + ukrainean). You should not forget that Romaninas (Moldovans) there DONNOT want independence, and want to write in latin script (that's why there was I fight between the Romanians and the Militia)!!! I guess that russians and ukraineans should not dicide on the Romanian language, don't you think?

Do you know for a fact that NO speakers of Moldovan in Transnistria want independence? You do not know this. Be careful, your POV is showing through blatantly here, this is about reality, not what things /should/ be. Latin-alphabet schools have been closed, so presumably those Transnistrians educated in Moldovan for some time to come will have read Cyrillic at school, which means more people who prefer Cyrillic.
"According to a census in 2004 - one third of those who spoke Moldovan said they considered Moldovan to be their mother tongue, as opposed to Romanian. This is about one million people who rejected Romanian (though a further two million considered Romanian to be their mother tongue) - I feel this is more than enough reason to create mo.wikipedia.org."

WARNING! Those that claimed Moldovan as mother thongue, were reffering to Moldovan in latin script, because Moldovan is not written in Cyrilic, but in Latin (and that isn't just official, there is no more than 200.000-300.000 people of that 1 million that prefer Cyrillic).--Danutz

Duh. I think we know that. But you're severely minimizing that really huge number of 300k. Do you realise that that is 10% of all speakers of Romanian/Moldavian? You are writing off 10% of the speakers of your language as insignificant. If that isn't rabid nationalism clouding your judgement, I don't know what is.
Dear user, there are no more people in Transnistria that prefer Cyrilic. The Communist authorities are trying to forcely impose the Cyrillic alphabet.
How do you know that? Have you taken a survey? Have you even been to Transnistria? You do not know that for sure. There are thousands of Romano-Moldavian speakers in Transnistria, have you asked each one personally?
That 200-300k might be 10% of Romanian/Moldovan speakers in Moldova, but that is 1% of Romanian/Moldovan speakers worldwide (26-28 million, see here, here, or here)... Romanian/Moldovan in Cyrillic is not official teached and used in any coutry (not in Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Voivodina, nor in other comunities worldwide). If you want to built a Wikipedia for Moldovan-Cyrillic, please do so as the norvegians did with Wikipedia in Bokmal and Nynorsk. You should make a mo-cy.wikipedia.org (or ro-cy.wikipedia.org, your choice), and use the main page on mo.wikipedia.org only as a portal directing users to ro.wikipedia.org and mo-cy.wikipedia.org ? How does that sound?
Ahh this is a miscalculation on my part. Indeed it is 1% of Moldovan/Romanian users worldwide. But it is still very significant, 1% is a lot - one in every 100 people who speak this language prefer to read it and write it in Cyrillic. If it seems insignificant to you, then let me tell you this, less than 1% of the population of Earth speaks Romanian so perhaps we should ignore them too.
You insisting Cyrillic use an entirely different and longer domain is outrageous. If Cyrillic uses ro-cy or mo-cy, I will expect Latin first to change to ro-la or mo-la. Until then I see no reason why the Moldavian Wikipedia cannot have a dual-script solution. Also all those Russian- and Ukrainian-speakers in Moldova write Moldovan in Cyrillic usually too but aren't counted I don't think. (most are bilingual)
A, btw, don't revert anymore the change to the main page. Romanian language is refferd in Moldovan also as română and not romînă (pentru a apropria numele de moştenirea latină). Yes words like cât and rămâne ar written cît and rămîne in Moldova, but Romanian is written română (with "â din a") and not romînă (with "î din i")

--Danutz

You can find examples of this still. Earlier you were saying Cyrillic is "no longer used" until you later admit it is used by some people still, officiality vs reality is a very big issue (officially, Transnistria is a province of Moldova, but in reality, the Moldovan government has no control over it and it is administered by its own national government.)

Mister (or Missis) i'd like you to inform that Romanian is not written in cyrillic. It's written only in Latin since the end of XIX century. Polish, Czech also used before cyrillic, but now they are using latin script. We donnot have any reason to use ro-la.wikipedia.org . Romanian language is not in the situation of the Serbian language where there are used both Cyrillic and Latin. We use only Latin. I guarentee that Romanian Wikipedia ( http://ro.wikipedia.org ) will never be written in cyrillic! I surtenly don't agree to that, and I'm sure that that will be the opinion of all other active users.
And how do you know this!? You are the one saying Moldovan is the same language as Romanian, so is it or isn't it? Make your decision, stop being a hypocrit!!!!!!!!! If it is, then 1% of speakers of "Romanian" use Cyrillic. If it isn't, then quit whining about how they are the same language.
The sole problem is this so-called Moldovan language. Acording to the census in 2003, two thirds of Romanian/Moldovan speakers in Moldova declared to have Romanian as mother tongue. This are the users that we adress to, in Moldova (Why? Because these are the ones that would agree to contribuite to a Romanian Wikipedia, without some nationalist ideas of a Moldovan language, because they identify themselves with our Wikipedia, and not with other Wikipedias other than Romanian --> that would meen complications and "mult stres"). Of course if those that declared their mother tongue to be Moldovan are wellcomed to edit in Romanian Wikipedia, if they respect the conventions (and that includes use of Latin alphabet), because we do have users that don't have Romanian as mother tongue in ro.wiki but donnot edit in german nor french or other languages (see for example ro:Utilizator:Defrenrokorit).
It is silly to think it would take much trouble to simply say "este Wikipedia" or "wikipedia romana/moldoveanesca" for the sake of including this 1/3rd of the population of Moldova. You accuse these people of being silly nationalists, when you youyrself are being confused by your nationalism. They have just as much a right to calling this language for ther country as you have to calling it foryours, so stop telling them "I know more than you, you do not speak Moldavian you speak Romanian" and respect their feelings. If you welcome all users of the Romanian Langugae (which, according to you, includes all users of Moldavian as well), it is silly to exclude the 1% who prefer Cyrillic. If you don't want to accommodate them in ro.wikipedia, this just shows how your nationalism clouds your judgement because you are limiting a group of people from equal-opportunity access to information.
The allocated ISO codes ro and mo refer to Romanian and (respectively) Moldovan written in Latin, so you donnot have any right to use this code. You should see this chance to use mo.wikipedia.org as a portal as a good oportunity and generosity. So... Have a break, have a kittkat.
This is a flat-out lie. These ISO codes do not address the issue of script at all. "ro" refers to Romanian, even if you write it in Hebrew letters or Greek letters, and "mo" refers to Moldavian, if you write it in Latin or Cyrillic or Hebrew or Chinese equally. You are just being anal, as it is mo.wiki only gets 30 or 40 visits every year, almost exclusively from you and me.
And, BTW that you understand better my solution. There should be created a portal on mo.wikipedia.org where ther are links to two Wikipedias: mo-cy.wikipedia.org and mo-la.wikipedia.org . As soon as mo-la.wikipedia.org will just redirect to ro.wikipedia.org, we should avoid overloading the servers at Wikipedia and write directly on the portal of mo.wikipedia.org a link to ro.wikipedia.org and delete the link to mo-la.wikipedia.org !
Or, maybe we should just ignore Romanians and do whatever we feel. You are not our boss.
Ok, now it is the last time I warn you about changing română to romînă in the main page! The next time I will apply for the main page to be protected, and if this will not be a solution, then ask for you to be banned. Reason: Please see any page on www.moldova.md, the guvernamental protal of Moldova. Let's take for example [2] or [3]: I'm shore you see that România, or română are written this way, and not Romînia, or romînă. Please use the searching in the upper right corner of the page to look for words like romana, Romania, română, România vs. romina, Rominia, romînă, Romînia. So pay atention, I don't joke and I don't like "ameninţări". Nu eu iţi voi da "ban", eu nici măcar nu am acces de administrator pe Wikipedia moldovenească şi nici nu voi cere să îl am. Voi cere însă unor utilizatori internaţionali să o facă. And I don't play with that. This is the last warning. Have a nice day! --Danutz
Now is the last time I warn YOU!!!! Go http://posta.org.md/ro/index.php?module=coduri_postale and you will see that even OFFICIAL WEBSITES disagree with you. Go away.
Why is Posta Moldovei.org.md an oficial site? It doesn't even have a version in the oficial language of Moldova (moldoveneasca)... Don't say to me that moldova.md is not the administration oficial site. Why do you play that nasty and don't see the facts. Have a google search to find out how many pages in Moldova use romana and how many romina. Well, I do respect my word and I aplied for protecting the main page. --Danutz
You have lied here, or uyou have not followed the rules because you did not make this request on Meta.wikipedia. And you talk about 'playing that nasty' and not seeing the facts, you lie by sayong "Romanian language is refferd in Moldovan also as română and not romînă (pentru a apropria numele de moştenirea latină). Yes words like cât and rămâne ar written cît and rămîne in Moldova, but Romanian is written română (with "â din a") and not romînă (with "î din i")" and excluding the fact that many poeople still write "romînă" until now you admit that it is used, but you want to know which is more widely used. You have made it obvious until now that your nationalism continues to cloud your judgement, making threats and taking actions over such perceived problems as this.
Oh, and the last time I checked, the ministry of transportation and communication is part of the government... do you disagree?

Are you crazy? There are not many people "still" writing romînă? ha? Romanian language was never reffered as "romînă". This is a mistake.

Please be careful not to contradict yourself. I quote you: Romanian language is reffered as română and not romînă, also in Moldova, as it was reffered in Romanian before 1989. so before 1989, this language was called "romînă". (though this is confusing as I thought that wasn't the case, maybe it was true in Moldova until 1989 only?) Thus you contradict yourself when you say it was never referred to that way.

1. Let's have a look on google. I searched romînă and română (the proportions should be the same for "romana" and "romina" just that, romana meens also something refering to Romans, so the procent is very much higher). "Romînă": 562 results (0,027%); "romînă md": 69 (0,34%); "romînă Moldova": 210 (0,105%); On the other hand "Română": 2.050.000 results ; "română md": 19.900; "română Moldova": 200.000 . Indeed, I can say, many Moldovans use romînă, what can I say...

"Română" and "Română md" do not filter effectively for Moldovan usage, even "Română moldova" doesn't filter well for Moldovan usage - most of the hits are actually from Romania.

2. If there where 80% people using romînă, and the Academia de Stiinte a Moldovei, would have choosen română, we, on Wikipedia, should respect the norm of the Academia de Stiinte, because this is the one that regulates the language. Please have a look on the site www.asm.md , and find out there is no moldovan language (see http://www.asm.md/institute/lingvist/index.htm ). I don't even know what are we talking here. In Romania before 1989, there was in use also the norm with î for words other than Romania, romana, romanesc s.a., but if Romanian language is regulated by Academia Romana, then Wikipedia uses the language as it is regulated.

Well the mo.wikipedians disagree with you on that point. We feel that linguistic regulations should only be followed so long as they facilitate interdialectal understanding and reduce ambiguous usage and multiple ways to write the same thing. Thus, if we are told suddenly by ASM that the word "Moldova" has been replaced with the word "Popalopadopalapalopasalopasatalolopalolola", we will ignore them and go about our business as usual.

Well, you find just non-sense arguments, based on lies (you asked even for a google search, to find out if there are more pages using romîna insted of româna, and claimed there would be more results for the first version. if you don't remember have a look on the history of the main page). Good job, what can I say... You should though accept the facts. --Danutz

What I like is how every time you sense you are losing an argument on one of my particular points, you ignore it in your reply and only continue on the points you think you have a chance of winning. This is not what I do - even if I feel I am wrong I will say that and concede a point, not just pretend it's not there.

Well, I have no reason to make a decision toward either of you preference. First because I have no idea who is more correct than the other, second because I am not an arbitrator. I would like to suggest that you do not limit the discussion to the two of you, but involve more people in the discussion.

If necessary (though I do not support vote much, it is sometimes helpful), I suggest that you set up a vote on the topic and get people to give their opinion on that issue.

One vote, two options. And see what gets out of it. If one is obviously widely supporting the most approved version, it will be seen in a couple of days and the page will be protected in the most preferred version.

What do you think ?

Anthere 21:20, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there is only two or three real people who have made any contributions on the Moldovan Wikipedia, so Danut will be able to bring in other Romanian nationalists from the Romanian Wikipedia to vote his preference. I am the only one here to actually write an article, if that is the criteria to vote then there will only be one vote, but if it is broader it will attract Romanians who will probably vote towards the nationalistic option, so there is no criteria which is good. Unlike the English Wikipedia where a poll gets votes from local Wikipedians, that cannot happen here - they will all be imported from other Wikipedias and I donot think that's fair.
I'm sick. User, you are out of your mind. Please register to www.moldova.net, or find out any other forum in romanian/moldovan language in Moldova. I asked there wich would be the prefered version. Anthere is very obiective becuase she doesn't know the situation. I'm shore that if she would read all the discussion, she would agree. What most of the hits come from Romania. Take a look at the adresses. This should be the final decision I guess. But I don't know, you could be right, let's see. --Danutz 19:02, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
If you are sick, you should go to a doctor. Any answers at this forum is invalid because this does not distinguish between people who claim to speak "Romanian" and those who say "Moldavian" which is vital here because those that say "Romanian" are very very very much less probable to visit mo.wikipedia than those who say "Moldavian", not to mention that many Romanians people may post to the same forums frequently.

Okay. So, though I am a bit embarassed by this, I decided to take a decision, at least a temporarily one. Which will be to support keeping Danutz version.

Now, I have a suggestion to you both.

Why not writting a little paragraph on the main page about this controversy, explaining the different spelling type ? (or at least mentioning the different alternatives and estimation of their occurence) ?

Anthere 05:13, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PS : by the way Danutz, did the creation of the account on the foundation site worked ? Anthere

I wonder why you side with Danut, I am the one who has written 4 articles on this site, he hasn't written any at all and he is not Moldavian either.

Thanks, Anthere. Yes the account works fine, thank you for reminding me about it, I will begin to translate sometime this week.
As for you, user, you wrote just 2 stubs here, Лимба молдовенеаскэ and Република Молдова. I wrote Limba moldovenească, and builded the main page on 28 ian 2004 (not 2005, warning). The articles you wrote are simply small parts of long articles, that were copied from ro.wikipedia.org (ro:Limba moldovenească and ro:Republica Moldova on ro.wiki were written by me, see the history) and just transliterated them in cyrillic (although Romanian/Moldovan language is not written by the majority in Cyrillic -also the official script both in Romania and Moldova is latin-, and we didn't reached a consensus about scripts here). Well, I posted the question about how to reffer romanian language in a forum, the most widely used forum in Moldova (the first result in Google; I remind you that google makes the order, provided the number of the hits), http://www.moldova.net . I also organised a pool there: see http://www.moldova.net/viewtopic.php?t=7505 . As of 27th January, 15:50 h(Romania/Moldova), 8 people preffer Româna (100%), 0 preffer Romîna and 0 preffer both. (Unknown user), please donnot vote, I didn't vote neither, I just posted the question. Allow this to be a fair election. Thanks.
A, and I don't need to be from Moldova, it is enough to speak Romanian langauge, to fight for it's speakers. We cannot know for shore though, that your mother tongue is Romanian. I'm shore your mother tongue is Russian, and that you are one of the 4% of citizens of Moldova that have Russian as mother tongue but speak also Romanian/Moldovan. You would have preffered to have this discussion on Romanian if not, it would have been easier to you to, as I can see you do know latin script (I don't know cyrillic, i can't read a letter in it). --Danutz
You are not answering any of the questions I have asked but instead throw mud on my face. Because I stand up for the minority, I must be Russian. For your information my russian is very very poor, and I do not use Cyrillic as my preferred script but I know it well and I know people who do prefer it.
Again as I said before, there is no way to tell if some people at this forum are Romanian or Moldovan, and your poll simply asks which they prefer. That is not the question here - the question is, for those that claim MOLDAVIAN as their mother tongue (not those that claim Romanian), which do they prefer - this domain is unlikely to be visited by the people who claim Romanian, yet because of the demographics of Moldova and of that forum in general, most of the people who vote in this poll regard Romanian and not Moldavian as their mother tongue. We cannot know either that your mothre tongue is Romanian, for all we know you could be Chinese knowing Romanian as a second language. It was not my choice to have this discussion on English, i is OldakQualls and yours.

User, most of the users that replied on this page http://www.moldova.net/viewtopic.php?t=7505 , most of them claim they come from Chisinau. They didn't create the accounts in the day I organized the pool, they are longevive there, so they didn't have to lie. I asure you they come from Moldova. You should get rid of this communist thinking, and I asure you, you are sick, because you prefer latin, have romanian as first language but still you write in cyrillic. You have problems, but that are not my problems so I should not talk about them with you.

Here is when you finally expose your bias. "this communist thinking", "you are sick, because you prefer latin, have romanian as first language but still you write in cyrillic", shows that you are not on the same page as the 1/3rd of the Moldovan population who claims "Moldovan" as their native language, and that anything from Russia must be evil communistic.
I have not claimed that they aren't from Moldova, I have said that just because the forum is moldova.net doesn't mean just Moldovans can post there - it is open to anybody around the world. And that is not the main concern about this poll anyway.

Then, you changed Antheres edits. Mister, she is a steward, so if she makes a decision (becuase she is totaly neutral, you should listen to her). I'll ask her to protect the main page, becuase her decision didn't worked for you, and to have you banned for 24h (that only as a warning).

I did not revert her edits. I removed the POV you inserted into this page which 1/3rd of Moldova disagrees to - the assertion that Romanian and Moldovan are identical.

About the users that claim Moldovan as mother tongue - they use romana and not romina. You gave me examples of romanian language written "romina" only on pages claiming romanian version (and not moldovan). Why? Because there aren't any. I gave you, instead examples, claiming a moldovan version of page, where romana and Romania are written with "â din a".

That is because there are not even any pages which use româna which claim to have a Moldovan version. You will not see this term at all on those pages. Rominia or Romania, maybe. You gave me the example of a government website, which is not representative of how people actually writes.
You still have not answered the main problem: your poll does not distinct between people who speak "Romanian" and people who say "Moldovan". This is problem because this Wikipedia is only for the people who say "Moldovan", not for all people of Moldavia (just as ro.wikipedia is not for a Romanian who doesn't know any Romanian language). It is only for the people who felt excluded by Romanian Wikipedia. Especially concentration in Chisinau is not representative of country, cosmopolitan areas except in Transnistria area are 4/5 "Romanian", more rural area are instead 4/5 "Moldovan".

Well, guess what? By making a bilance, I find out I gave you many arguments, that you abusivley refused all (the last - claiming that the users on www.moldova.net donnot come from Moldova is outrageous). You found arguments that have no validity (none of them have validity, there is not one to be valid). You cannot even reffer to a minority, there is no such a minority. Good night! --Danutz

I have many arguments which is valid, you just ignore them completely and do not respond.

Give me the one example of valid argument, not to be combated. About cosmopolitan areas and rural areas. I'm shore it is not that situation (I remind you that 2/3 of Romanian/Moldovan speakers declared Romanian; and in Moldova rural is 2/3 of population, so I'm shore there is a romanian majority also in rural areas). But that doesn't count because, there is no Internet in rural areas (especially in Moldova), all Moldovan users would come from cosmopolitan areas. Dăăăă.... --Danutz

I don't know why you think that both orthographies can be converted one to another by computer. I know Romanian well, in two alphabets, and I can declare, that: • the letter I can be И, Й or Ь in Cyrillic, it depends of its prononciation • the Cyrillic letter Я means EA • the combination IU can be in Cyrillic ИЮ, ЬЮ, Ю, ИЮ... etc. I've deleted all your mistakes from all pages. Also I wanna add that when one writes Moldovan in Cyrillic he has all the letters, because they can only be at all or be out; and when one writes Romanian, he in 99% of cases uses only English alphabet for this; I don't know why it was necessary to change the Moldovan alphabet. It was really phonetical, but I can't say the same about the Romanian alphabet.

Dixi. My e-mail, if you wanna receive answers from me to your questions, is vertaler@mail.ru .