Disputatio Usoris:Jondel

E Vicipaedia

Eheu, interlingua non possum uti, ac perfacile est lectu! Tecum loquar, arbitatro tuo, in latine, angice, aut hispanice, elegens de codice in meam paginam relicto linguas quibus possis loqui. Praeferro latine, aut anglice, ut possim loqui hispanice, ac non cum fluentia quam velim. Esto liberus mecum conloqui interlingua, modo non me expecta simile agere =]. Quaesitionem tuum in reddendo, latinam incepit discere in schola, praecipue ad Universitatem MariaeTerrae prope Vasingtoniam DC, ac lareatus sum, et nunc Latinitatem Unam doceo in schola publica. Liguistica maxime mihi placet, et latina modo est una praelatarum lingua mearum. De numeribus...bonus locus invenire numeros magnos est in Rebus Gestae Augusti. Apud Vicipaediam, utimur numeris arabicis in articulos scribendo. Sunt facliores legere, et parviores. Pax tibi, et mox conloquemur.--Ioshus Rocchio 02:17, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

Non pote comprehender. I can't understand this yet. I 'll feed this to a machin translator.--Jondel 02:34, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

After careful examination I think I understand this. My (pathetic )translation:Hi! I don't use interlingua ac? but it is easy to read! Tecum? uh bleach...i give up..... returning to your question, I studied in school in University of Mary the Earth in Washington DC and I am larry now latin .....I am pleased with languges.. whatever... Rebus? With Wikipedia and a number of arabs i write in articles.They are facliores reading and small?parviores. Peace to your and mox? with talking?

Wow, I can't use interlingua, but it sure is easy to read. I will speak with you, its your choice, in latin, english, or spanish, choosing from the list of languages you left in my profile that you are able to speak. I prefer latin or english, as I know spanish, but not with the fluency I'd like. Feel free to write to me in Interlingua, but dont expect me to do the same =]. In answering your question, I started to study Latin in school, specifically at the University of Maryland near DC, but I have graduated, and now teach Latin One in middle school. I love linguistics, and latin is among my favorite languages. ABout numbers...the best place to find examples of big numbers is in Augustus' Res Gestae. At Vicipaedia, we use arabic numbers when writing articles. They are easier to read, and smaller. Peace, talk toy uo soon.--Ioshus Rocchio 03:23, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

Index

[recensere] Interlingua

Yes, it seems very easy to use, and if enough people knew it, would be a great lingua franca that people all over Europe could use. Its simplicity, however, is what I find, for lack of a better word, repulsive. It seems to me a forced mesh of languages that developed naturally, so it lacks all poeticality. Further, its grammar behaves differently than all languages it stemmed from (though admittedly, not unlike many of latin's descendants). What interests me about languages is the nuance, the turn of phrase, the intrinsic marks on a language's development as imposed by the collective psyche of its speakers. The other languages may be more difficult, but they are difficult for the reason that they were natural, and were learned as one lived, and not in the course of a day. With their difficulty comes the joy of poetry, and the pleasure of actually thinking the way someone else did, conceivably years after their languaged ceased to be used. I don't mean to slant interlingua, or you for studying it, it just seems that you are attracted to it for the very same reasons that I am not attracted to it.--Ioshus Rocchio 04:15, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

On the difficulty of latin...I'm reminded of a line from Ovid:
Perfer et obdura, dolor hic tibi proderit olim
--Ioshus Rocchio 05:58, 9 Martii 2006 (UTC)
Bear and endure what was painful to you once and benefit/profit? (direct trans) proderit =>prodire -go forth  ? --Jondel 06:16, 9 Martii 2006 (UTC)
Be tough and persevere...this pain will benefit you someday... (prodire literally to go forward, idiomatically benefit or be useful)--Ioshus Rocchio 14:12, 9 Martii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Article Philippinae

I think I understood your message in general, however, I have no idea of Interlingua. The word troppo seems to be important ... what does it mean? I had Latin in school for some years, but I've forgotten nearly everything. Luckily reading works in most cases. If you do not care that I do not understand Interlingua and just guess what you are meaning, you can write to me in Interlingua ... or Latin. ;-) For my answers you can choose between German, English and Perl. --Roland2 19:03, 23 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the translation to English. I could see: Interlingua's concept seems to work ... I guessed nearly all of the content :-) BTW, what about having some Babel templates on your user page? --Roland2 22:05, 24 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

I placed the templates but there are none for interlingua and en:tagalog?--Jondel 05:22, 28 Februarii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Emergency response

Yes, declensions are an ugly ugly beast. My only recommendation for understanding them, and then learning to use them, is perseverance and stiff drink...very stiff. Honestly I don't know how the hell the Romans learned to use them thousands of years before whiskey was invented. It helps that the cases are named for what they mean... nominative is the naming case, genitive is the case for ownership and belonging (genus, generate), dative is the indirect object case because it indicates recipient of action (from do, dare to give), accusative from accusare, ablative from ab+past participle of ferro, tuli, latus so the case of separation or carrying away, vocative and locative kind of obvious. Just be glad it's not Estonian...they have 14-16 cases depending on whom you ask, not the 65-7 that Latin has.

And btw...feel free to ask any more specific questions about declensions in Latin, or in any of several other languages.--Ioshus Rocchio 04:57, 27 Februarii 2006 (UTC)


Only when I can't find them in the online or hardprint dictionaries, latin aids etc. Gratias ago.--Jondel 06:39, 9 Martii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] utuntur

If you want a specific thing done, and are not just expressing your thoughts, please write in Latin, Spanish, Italian, or English...I get the gist of Interlingua, but not the nuance.--Ioshus Rocchio 03:14, 2 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Utuntur is a form of utor, uti, usum est, to use. Ut is a particle and does not have any form other than ut. Delineatibus is not a word, as far as I know, delineatis is, being the ablative/dative plural perfect passive participle of delineo, delineare, delineavi, delineatum, which means the same thing as delineate in english, move from a line or path. As for dictionaries, I went through 3 copies of The New College Latin & English Dictionary by Bantam books during my undergraduate career. As for online, William Whitaker's Words are awesome. Say you enter utuntur...you get

ut.untur             V      3 1 PRES         IND 3 P    
utor, uti, usus sum  V  DEP   [XXXAX]  
use, make use of, enjoy; enjoy the friendship of (with ABL);

or for delineatibus

Two words            
May be 2 words combined (delineati+bus) If not obvious, probably incorrect
b.us                 N      4 1 NOM S C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 VOC S C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 GEN S C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 NOM P C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 VOC P C                 
b.us                 N      4 1 ACC P C                 
bus, bus  N  C   [BAXDO]    Early  lesser
ox, bull; cow; cattle (pl.); (odd form mostly in Varro);
delineat.i           VPAR   1 1 GEN S M PERF PASSIVE PPL
delineat.i           VPAR   1 1 GEN S N PERF PASSIVE PPL
delineat.i           VPAR   1 1 NOM P M PERF PASSIVE PPL
delineat.i           VPAR   1 1 VOC P M PERF PASSIVE PPL
delineo, delineare, delineavi, delineatus  V  TRANS   [XXXDO]    lesser
delineate; trace the outline of; (sketch out L+S);

and for an English=>Latin dictionary try Notre Dame's Page. I don't know of a good Latin=>English dictionary online. But I would do little guessing at forms, guess at emasnings, but not forms.--Ioshus Rocchio 03:52, 2 Martii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] phillipines

what does this mean, in spanish or english? et primus praesidens fuit post patrem suum, cui nomen Diosdado Macapagal.

Uh, it was supposed to mean ' the first president after her father whose name is Diosdado Macapagal'. Bassically I wanted to say that her father was a president too. Paterned after George Bushs latin description of the same.
Is this grammatically correct? 'Olim praesidens Diosdado Macapagal filliae est.'( ?)--Jondel 01:57, 7 Martii 2006 (UTC)
No... That means either (since Diosdado doesnt decline) the president of the daughter is once Diosdado... or once the praesident is of the daughter of Diosdado... or something else that doesn't make sense. I'm sorry, let me revise, I didn't know what you wetre trying to say.--Ioshus Rocchio 02:03, 7 Martii 2006 (UTC)
Yeah...don't use J...juan is perfectly well latinized as Iohannes. I don't know what you mean by in San Juan Metro Manila...

She was born in San Juan(a district in ), Metro Manila. Nevermind the 'san Juan'. I'll just remove this(not significant). About the president's daugher thing: Praesedens veteri Diosdado Macapagal filliae est. Question filliae is genitive here isn't it (genetive:of the)?

'natus est ' is wrong?--Jondel 02:17, 7 Martii 2006 (UTC)

She's a girl...--Ioshus Rocchio 02:26, 7 Martii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] superbus

It actually means proud...magnificus, fantasticus, miranda, something like that. Looks like a good site.--Ioshus Rocchio 06:34, 15 Martii 2006 (UTC)

For begginers (like me). Makes latin learning possible and even interesting(this is blasphemy)!--Jondel 07:37, 15 Martii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] idioms

I just stumbled upon the page looking at recent changes, and those were some phrases I knew off the top of my head, and didn't have to sit down and think about. I'll take another look tonight.--Ioshus Rocchio 04:02, 22 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I made a correction (credere=> creare). Does nationalis decline like hostis? --Jondel 04:18, 22 Martii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] hymnus nationalis

Nah. Nationalis for one is an adjective, not a noun. For two, I don't really think hostis or nationalis look plural. Further, it's hymnus, not hymno, hymno would be dative or ablative. 3rd declension adjectives have singular nominative in is, unless neuter, when they end in e. Hymnus nationalis is fine. Hymno nationali would be ablative singular, from or because of the national anthem. Nothing singular ends in i in nominative.----Ioshus Rocchio 01:16, 23 Martii 2006 (UTC)

Gratias ago. Gotta read that chapter on adjectives.--Jondel 01:19, 23 Martii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] studuntur est

What does this mean, out of curiosity? I read it as, it is, they are zealed after? Studere means to zeal, but, studuntur is not a form of that exists, in any verb that I know of.--Ioshus Rocchio 01:40, 28 Martii 2006 (UTC)


Anglicized latin. Don't be horrified. It 's my agenda for study. I try to memorize a few lines, phrases from model works. My method is a bit hard but it is easier for me to memorize sample sentences of grammar rules as a pattern then substitute different words; rather than memorize the grammar rule then calculate/formulate the sentence I would like to express. Worked well for me with Spanish and Japanese. Back to the question. It was supposed to mean: For study/Must study. --Jondel 02:05, 28 Martii 2006 (UTC)
But where did you find something like studuntur est, from which to copy? And what, pray tell, is Anglicized at all about studuntur est? It is vulgarized, but in no way Anglicized. I'd memorize some patterns, were I you. Studendum/a(if you want to pluralize) est/sunt, or studium dandum est, I think you were after. Studeo, studere the verb, not studo, studere which has the definition I listed above.--Ioshus Rocchio 02:20, 28 Martii 2006 (UTC)
Sorry again, I meant Latinized English. Studium dandum est seems fine.--Jondel 02:29, 28 Martii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Aemilius Aguinaldo

There are more pictures there: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Emilio_Aguinaldo --Roland2 20:22, 2 Maii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Usor:Bocianski/experimentum

Hello, can you see that article and correct it? I don't know, how to name Kurówka River and Polish villages in Latino. In en-version and Polish version are also fotos, I don't know how to put in in article. Bocianski 07:01, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

But I'm just a beginner in Latin! Most of my latin articles are copy and paste from similar ones. I think Kurówka River would be Fluvia Kurokae.--Jondel 07:11, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)
Copy-paste, you say? Hm, well, and those villages and 1 town (Puławy)? What do you think about Garbovia, Markusovia, Pulawia? I have problem with Końskowola. Końskowola literaly in Polish language mean Will of Horse, but name (old version: Konińskawola) came from german "Woll" - (lat. liberta villa, see en:Wola (settlement)) and owner's patronimic name Dzierslavus de Konin. Bocianski 07:22, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC) And why Kurokae? ówka is sufiks added to Kurów. If Curovia, then Curoca or Curocae.

This might be useful but you probably have this link already:[catholic.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookdown.pl Notre Dame English to Latin dictionary]. Will of the horse would be Voluntas Equus or Voluntas Equi? Liberta villa -> Vecus libertae (genitive) or Vecus Liberta(nominative agreeing with form of Vecus). Village of Konin->Vedus Coninsis. I usually check similar articles in English then go to the latin version. e.g. for University of Manila , I went to University of Harvard ->Latin version then copy , paste to Universitas Manilae then changed relevant info like dates etc. Of course I am studying latin on my own (Nominative, genitive, etc) and attempting to read classics.--Jondel 07:36, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

No, I haven't seen this link at this moment. Copy-paste, I know it :) I learned latin little, but many years ago, so now I copy and paste. But I have good understanding. I think that, I'll leave my "experimentum" and will seek some historical names on old maps or documents. If you want, you can correct my "experimentum", if you have better informations. You can also to show it to somebody. Will be better waiting for good info than to product bad article. Can I request for something? Can you translate en:Chrząchów and en:Kurówka River to spain or japan and other yours languages? For pay back for it, I can translate something for you to polish from En, Ru or Fr. Maybe my active English isn't excellent, but my translation are good. Seeya, Bocianski 08:13, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)
If you studied, then your latin should definitely be better than mine. I will look into your translation offers. See you.--Jondel 14:29, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Manilae

If it's "Manila University" i would say Maniliensis, but if it's the "University of Manila" I'd say Manilae.--Ioshus Rocchio 12:23, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

Gratias ago. Confirms my translation.--Jondel 14:25, 12 Maii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] invitatio

Thanks for your emendations to my barbaric spanish!--Ioshus Rocchio 12:52, 24 Maii 2006 (UTC)

Your welcome. Actually I still need a lot of Spanish to learn but I'm sure of my corrections.--Jondel 00:47, 25 Maii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Perl

Unfortunately ;-) Wikipedia uses PHP. However, you can use Perl when you download a database dump (see Vicipaedia:Praefatio) or when you use the www-mediawiki-client from CPAN, which - at the moment - does not work for the Latin WP because of a bug. I have made a script where I can make some investigations locally. I am using XML::Twig for parsing the XML dump. --Roland2 20:07, 6 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

gratias ago.--Jondel 04:36, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Word order

For many, that is the whole fun of latin. The poets used this to an awesome extent...for instance...a sentence like in pectore ferrum conditum vulnerato est, (in chest sword plunged wounded was, proper english word order: the sword was plunged in the wounded chest) where vulneratum modifies pectus, so that with the word order, it actually looks like the sword is "inside" the wounded chest. A very cool thing. Many neolatinists though default to a more sensible word order that fits the chomskyan programming their native language has imprinted upon their brain. Be bold, and creative with it, I say. The first site you sent me is sweet! You seem to find a dearth of those sites online, well done. But the second site...I'm not so sure why you sent that to me. The bible in english? No offense but that is hardly useful to me, and in my humble opinion, anyone else really. A silly little book it is, over which more people have been killed than anything else, that describes in one half the world of a backwards people and their wrathful god, and in the second half, god's schizophrenic realization that he should love his creations and the best way to do that is by sacrificing his only son, who really didn't have a whole lot useful to say either. Love thy neighbor sure, but if someone hits you on the cheek, hit him back...that makes much more sense to me. Further barely anything he said isn't covered by eastern philosophy, and by secular western philosophy, both before and after. The only creative thing he said was that the only way to the one true god was through him, and if you don't really like that one true god, it doesn't much help.--Ioshus Rocchio 13:24, 7 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

Of course I should add that these are my own views entirely, and I don't mean to slight anyone else's! =]--Ioshus Rocchio 00:20, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

I have a knack cause I 'm trying to learn and can't help but search once in a while.

Bible: Please look again here Well, this is vulgar latin. It probably can't compare with classical. Still , this vulgar latin is practical everyday latin that was meant to be used and spoken.--Jondel 04:42, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
In principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
1:2. The same was in the beginning with God.
Hoc erat in principio apud Deum

1:3. All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
Omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est
1:4. In him was life: and the life was the light of men.
In ipso vita erat et vita erat lux hominum

1:5. And the light shineth in darkness: and the darkness did not comprehend it.
Et lux in tenebris lucet et tenebrae eam non conprehenderunt

1:6. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Fuit homo missus a Deo cui nomen erat Iohannes

Aha! The link you sent the first time only had english, my mistakte. Yes that is actually pretty sweet, I've only read parts of the bible in latin. Thanks.--Ioshus Rocchio 13:12, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)


No, it was my mistake sorry. Anyway, in learning a language, it is much easier for me to memorize phrases exemplifying the grammar then, sort of mental cut and paste with what you want to say rather than 'calculating ' the phrase according to grammar rules. I also memorize a few made up phrases using the grammar. Wonderful growth experience!--Jondel 23:22, 8 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Oceania

Please, can you have a look at Oceania, {{Oceania}} and {{Asia}}? Some nations are listed on both templates. Thanks! --Roland2 19:47, 12 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

Roland, it is hard to demarcate these countries(Philippines, Indonesia, New Guinea, etc) and may belong to both. Although , for example Australia is a separate continent, I sometimehttp://la.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_sig.png Your signature with timestamps see them participating in Asian events. --Jondel 05:10, 13 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

This is sometimes true for Australia/Austria, too ;-) Shouldn't we add a comment to those countries in the list which we put intentionally both into Oceania and Asia? Similar situation with some countries in Asia/Europe. --Roland2 06:19, 13 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
That would be informative and very good. Why not start with one and I will make the same comment on others.--Jondel 08:56, 15 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

I will ask Ioshus if this is correct: Etiam membrum Oceania/Asia est. (Also a member of Oceanico).--Jondel 08:56, 15 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

Roland 2 I've already started.--Jondel 00:10, 16 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

This looks nice! :-) --Roland2 00:34, 16 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
Thanks :D --Jondel 04:29, 16 Iunii 2006 (UTC)
I've put the footnote inside the frame ... hopefully even nicer ... or just revert it. ;-) --Roland2 09:01, 16 Iunii 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] De Vicipaedia Latina

Salve Jondel,

Scribere volo relationem de Vicipaedia latina (pro commentario periodico nomine "vox latina"). Mihi gaudio est, si alias quaestiones respondere vis:

  • 1) Quid est Vicipaedia?
  • 2) Quomodo Vicipaedia differt ab lexicis aliis?
  • 3) Quomodo Vicipaedia latina differt ab Vicipaediis aliarum linguarum?
  • 4) a) Quomodo lemmata cum argumento falso vel ficto scripta prohiberi possunt? b) Quomodo lemmata in falsa lingua latina scripta prohiberi possunt?
  • 5) Quam utilitatem Vicipaedia mihi dat?
  • 6) Quas alias paginas latinas in interrete commendare potes?
  • 7) Ullam quaestionem desideras? Aliquas annotationes facere vis?

Gratias tibi ago pro labore tuo, --Lupambulus 16:35, 15 Septembris 2006 (UTC)